Official: 1206 Telekinesis released

[Hymore246]

Isn't Minor Mental considered to be the worst spell circle in the game? I can't image any profession would be happy to make a trade for it.


Estild seems like he is very controlling and thinks he knows better than the players. Further, I don't think he feels like he needs to explain himself or his actions either. I remember watching the last simucon and their was a Q&A session with Estild and two other GMs. Estild answered EVERY question before the other two could even open their mouths. Those other GMs never got the chance to answer any of the questions. Estild's answer to every question was almost always "It's possible" or some variation of that. Nothing really got answered and the entire Q&A was really crappy because of that. In fact, I remember another person lampshading the whole thing by offering a round of applause for the other two GMs for being good sports during the whole thing.

[Gelston]

Isn't Minor Mental considered to be the worst spell circle in the game? I can't image any profession would be happy to make a trade for it.


Estild seems like he is very controlling and thinks he knows better than the players. Further, I don't think he feels like he needs to explain himself or his actions either. I remember watching the last simucon and their was a Q&A session with Estild and two other GMs. Estild answered EVERY question before the other two could even open their mouths. Those other GMs never got the chance to answer any of the questions. Estild's answer to every question was almost always "It's possible" or some variation of that. Nothing really got answered and the entire Q&A was really crappy because of that. In fact, I remember another person lampshading the whole thing by offering a round of applause for the other two GMs for being good sports during the whole thing.

Again, the MnM we have now isn't what it would have been if Empaths had gotten it.

[Taernath]

240 is better than all of the MnM circle combined. Doubtful that empaths would be excited to lose that.

Yeah there still needs to be further balancing, swapping, or inventing needed to switch MjS with MnM. 240, 225, the +AS spells, etc. like everyone else is bringing up. 1206 might just be the first step. It's the only thing that makes logical sense to me, unless they're going with the 'use this spell to push DR' thing which is also possible.

[Gelston]

Yeah there still needs to be further balancing, swapping, or inventing needed to switch MjS with MnM. 240, 225, the +AS spells, etc. like everyone else is bringing up. 1206 might just be the first step. It's the only thing that makes logical sense to me, unless they're going with the 'use this spell to push DR' thing which is also possible.

They aren't swapping it. This was what they were planning on doing before the MnM was even fully created. So, they current MnM isn't created with empaths in mind at all. If they had kept their original plans, it would have been created with empaths in mind.

[audioserf]

You don't have a spell like 1209 (Dragonclaw) in MnM if you intend for Empaths to use it. That spell and a bunch of others clearly make MnM the offbrand Monk circle, even though they copped out on making a Monk circle. I don't think they ever plan to do the MjS->MnM swap for Empaths. That ship sailed without anyone on it. Now MnM is a bastardized combination of a Monk circle and a "some day a pure class will use this, we swear!" list and boom you have a spell for Monks that requires Spell Aiming.

SIMUTRONICS!

[Gelston]

You don't have a spell like 1209 (Dragonclaw) in MnM if you intend for Empaths to use it. That spell and a bunch of others clearly make MnM the offbrand Monk circle, even though they copped out on making a Monk circle. I don't think they ever plan to do the MjS->MnM swap for Empaths. That ship sailed without anyone on it. Now MnM is a bastardized combination of a Monk circle and a "some day a pure class will use this, we swear!" list and boom you have a spell for Monks that requires Spell Aiming.

SIMUTRONICS!

Dude, they aren't. This was the original idea, years aog, before the current list of spells was created. They were going to swap it when monks released. That ship has sailed.

[Astray]

Could this be another QC thing? "Oh man that spell makes thrown insane, hold up till we can tweak it."

Because if so, QC needs to be replaced. Whoever is working it clearly has dementia.

[Taernath]

They aren't swapping it. This was what they were planning on doing before the MnM was even fully created. So, they current MnM isn't created with empaths in mind at all. If they had kept their original plans, it would have been created with empaths in mind.

My understanding was they were still planning on giving empaths MnM, and was part of the reason they added 'mental' flavor messaging to empath base when they were revamped. Are you saying that's no longer the case? If so, do you have a link to a post?

Dude, they aren't. This was the original idea, years aog, before the current list of spells was created. They were going to swap it when monks released. That ship has sailed.

Monks were released 6 years ago, the empath revamp was maybe 5 before that. Simu ships sail on fucked up schedules and it's well within Simu character to take 10+ years to actually develop a system.

[Maerit]

I'd trade 225 tomorrow for 1213 as an empath.

Losing 211/215/218/219 is more of a concern, plus as was stated, 240.

215, yes, but the other three I think would be less important for empaths.

211 is easy to find, but also I envision with MnM empaths would actually be good at Unarmed Combat instead of using a weapon, so 1209 would replace 211 in this case for melee combat (but not for bolt spells).

1204, 1208 and 1220 would replace 219 - You would actually gain DS and TD with MnM when compared with MjS. You can tack on 1216 for even more DS if you want, but I imagine the preference would be to use 1213 and be in GoS for insane amounts of societal synergy.

218 would likely be less important as I believe empaths would probably move toward a more "hands free" combat style. While runestaff DS could potentially be higher, MnM actually offers quite a bit more DS than MjS does, and would make being open-handed much easier - allowing empaths to channel their spells with empty hands, and not worrying about being disarmed. Plus, you'd have 1214 to make it so you can parry with empty hands as well.

This would make 240 the most painful loss, but 215 also hard, and the utility of 225 as well with no replacement. It would be kind of cool for an empath that didn't like to look all scarred and beat up to have access to a (functioning) version of 1212 allowing them to conceal their injuries behind a shroud. Being able to use 1206, 1210/1110, 1219, and 1225 would be cool (of course 1225 needs to be implemented still), as Monks are still not able to use these. 1211 sounds kind of cool, but not sure really - as it would be kind of interesting in combination with 1117.

But still, 240 would be too hard to lose at this point as capped empaths are incredibly powerful when 240 is running - without it they're fine, but not great.

Frankly, an empath with MnM vs MjS would be a beast that was incredibly hard to kill provided they went the GoS route. They'd have insane mana potency with sigil of power, 1107 & 1213. They'd be incredibly durable with 3x PF, crit padding from sigils, all the healing powers, troll's blood, 1202 (brig armor with no hindrance), and whatnot along with not needing to hold a weapon due to 1214 + brawling. They'd have 115 and 1215 to have extra rolls to avoid both physical and magical attacks. Their primary problem would be offense, and they'd likely have to rely more on warding (CS) attacks vs bolting or physical (AS) attacks due to the lack of attack strength modifiers in their arsenal. Though, their offensive spell list would grow substantially. Hopefully 1225 would be the method of overcoming your enemy by effectively reducing their level (and DS) in order to bolster your attacks - but that's an expensive spell...

[audioserf]

1211 is pointless because it's a single target 1120. 1120 smashes it in every way.

1202 with a ton of Transformation lore would make empaths tanky but there suddenly would be a shortage of quality robes in game (there already is, really), lol. 1213 with lore and some stamina enhancives would be as close to infinite mana as can ever exist with GOS and 1107.

Interesting to consider but still - I'm firmly in the camp that they aren't going to do it. It's too late in the game to uproot a class like that (cue the 'lol wizards' example, but this isn't quite the same).