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Thread: Weapon Bases ?

  1. #11
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    Oh forgot! the added the whip-blade base! oh wait I didn't forget, it was a waste of time.
    Khaladon starts to turn the crystal knob, but stops with a frightened look on his face. He begins shaking uncontrollably and flies across the room, as though by some invisible force.

    **SPLAT!!** Khaladon careens off the far wall, slides down the smooth wood panelling and collapses into a quivering heap on the floor, with only his dignity bruised.

  2. Default

    One thing that could help, even without any change in the weapon bases, is to release the hidden attributes of the weapons.

    These include things like length and ambush target modifiers. We already know that ambush target modifiers are relatively more favorable for quicker weapons, but we do not know if there is variation without a weapon rate. For instance, is a military pick easier or harder to aim than a flamberge? What about a spear vs a trident?

    This kind of info would at the least be interesting ... at best maybe there is a weapon base that deserves another look, even without changing anything.
    The enhancive king of chicago

  3. #13

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    You could make these weapons more useful if they tied flare rate increases to them in some fashion. Make the rate of flaring linear to the DF of a weapon or something, with a minimum of 25%, but lower DF weapons could get up to say 40% chance to flare.

    I also am an extremely strong advocate for a monk-only "Staff Mastery" CMAN that allows you to make the DF and/or AvD of a Quarterstaff equal to that of a battleaxe.
    Last edited by Maerit; 06-14-2018 at 11:09 AM.

  4. #14

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    The weapons that truly suck would be best helped with an overhaul of their crit table so-to-speak. I'm speaking of grappling weapons, that instead of doing limp noodle damage, should trip, bind, entangle, and or web on a critical hit.

    Also, speed rules. And not just speed to kill, but speed to disable. If you're in a room with three foes, and can disable them all in a dew seconds, you are better off than if your huge df weapon has one of them dead with certainty. There's a sweet spot of speed to disable and df. Aim for that.
    I don't use Lich. If you want to do business with me, contact me via PM, IG, or on AIM. Or maybe use smoke signals. Don't like it, get off of my lawn.

  5. #15
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    Many Points have been raised, but to consolidate what's been said before in regards to the OP.

    You're right, there is not applied balance to weapon types in the OHE/OHB/THW/Polearm space. It can be argued that ranged have more of a sense of balancing looking at the RT implications versus DFs/AvDs of the three bows classes.

    However, it's worth noting that these mechanics have also been in place since the super early days of Gemstone, when the context and background was D&D, probably 2nd edition, where it was not uncommon to see weapon types with different damage values without offering advantages in other mechanics. Simply put, some weapons are just better designed, and more effective than others. There's probably a sense of realism in there.

    That being said, for most weapons, it's not AS cut and dry as the OP is making it out to be... as Ardwen stated, there are still a handful of good options, depending on the situation. If you truly wanted to min/max your killing, some weapon types are better against particular armor groups and others, and not all weapon classes have one cut and dry winner.

    Furthermore, as referenced early on, the weapons with the highest AvDs/DFs tend to also have the highest RT implications. Based on your DEXAGL, and whether or not your ambushing is going to play into which weapon to select. Regardless of weapon type, the reduction from 6 to 5 seconds of roundtime accounts for a 20% increase in total damage output, which because on criticals, ends up being worth more than just a 20% increase in DFs.

    Another factor to consider is hiding/ambushing adding crit weighting. Which makes shorter/faster weapons more viable.

    Undocumented, not fully tested, based on my initial testing, some weapon types have different thresholds for maximum phantom crit weighting from DEX. But even if this was fully vetted out, tested/etc, I would consider this tertiary to AvD/DF considerations.

    Lastly, is a little more subjective, but, overkill. All of the theorycrafting is great and all, but the most important thing is whether or not the sum of all of the additional benefits that you're receiving is likely to result in the lack of an additional hit required for a given scenario. If something has 250 HP, and you're increasing your damage per hit from 90 to 120... it's still going to take 3 shots to kill it before and after the changes. If the changes cost you 10m to achieve, it may be better to devote those resources elsewhere.


    >forage for snapdragon stalk
    d100(Open): -251
    You stumble about in a fruitless attempt at foraging.

    1/6/2014: Setheve completes the promotion ritual and says, "Congratulations, Whirlin, for achieving Guild Master status! We trust you'll serve your guild well."
    1/11/2014: Grandmaster Alchemist
    1/14/2014: Capped, and got Loralaii killed by a GM.
    7/11/2016: Founded the Hand of the Arkati
    9/20/2016: T5 on my bow (Thanks to Isola)... Managed as far as T4 myself.

  6. #16

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    Race is such a limiting factor as well if you don't consider using enhancives considerably. As a dwarf for example, the choice between polearm types and their damage factors becomes a give and take. Do I take the significantly higher damage factor of a lance for example, but swing slower...or, attempt fate with a faster weapon. Your best bet is through trials of your own on which you like. I've done the longer lance RT vs shorter RT say of a naginata, and was underwhelmed with the naginata performance, but also took a beating with the lance due to longer RT and there was nothing I could do about it aside from dump silvers into enhancives. Additionally, weapon types that are not overly common, like awl-pikes for example, have a small footprint for finding a unique and powerful weapon, either through playershops or other sales.

    I think the market just isn't there for a wide range of less commonly used items that fall into the middle ground, which kind of forces you into going into one direction for additional options, unless you have the time to build from plain 4x and go from there.
    Last edited by Erous; 06-14-2018 at 12:44 PM.

  7. #17

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    answer is always highest df weapon your character could focus mstrike 3x at 5 secs

  8. Default

    Excellent points by all. There is also the ways to increase DF such as perfect weapon, Arm of Arkati etc. which are all based on percentages and thus benefit higher DF weapons than their lower DF counterparts.

    As Whirlin has stated these weapon values were conceived in the very early days of the game, possibly even the late 1980’s. I definitely think this should be on the very top of a “review list”. A combination of additional status affects like grapple weapons ensnaring, like Archigeek mentioned, and possibly flare rate increases, or even a change in speed -let daggers hit a 4 sec min RT, and my idea of certain weapon types being better or worse in bypassing EBP can really add to the complexity and fun of the game.
    Last edited by Koars Light; 06-14-2018 at 01:15 PM.

  9. #19

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    I'm going to try and tack on to the end of this thread with a question regarding what weapon base choice I should make for my TWC off-hand.

    So far I've been using a main gauche in my off-hand for the added +10 DS bonus. I usually use it in combination with a short sword in my main hand for speed (and they are both flaring, which is fun), or I swap my main hand to a handaxe if I need to do more damage or run into something more armored.

    Up until now all my weapons have been kinda disposable, basic 4x or 5x with maybe a basic flare, nothing special just upgrading whenever I find a better one as loot or in the sewers of if somebody here on the PC is getting rid of something low-ish range in a locker cleanout. But I'm looking at this Duskruin of maybe purchasing something that would be a longer-term keeper project so I'm actually trying to think of what would be mechanically useful.

    I've always loved my main gauches for the DS bonus, but mechanically is everything else about them significantly worse than a short sword? Or something else edged? I'm in my mid-30's right now and hunting fine, but worried about harder critter levels in the future.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeith View Post
    I'm going to try and tack on to the end of this thread with a question regarding what weapon base choice I should make for my TWC off-hand.

    So far I've been using a main gauche in my off-hand for the added +10 DS bonus. I usually use it in combination with a short sword in my main hand for speed (and they are both flaring, which is fun), or I swap my main hand to a handaxe if I need to do more damage or run into something more armored.

    Up until now all my weapons have been kinda disposable, basic 4x or 5x with maybe a basic flare, nothing special just upgrading whenever I find a better one as loot or in the sewers of if somebody here on the PC is getting rid of something low-ish range in a locker cleanout. But I'm looking at this Duskruin of maybe purchasing something that would be a longer-term keeper project so I'm actually trying to think of what would be mechanically useful.

    I've always loved my main gauches for the DS bonus, but mechanically is everything else about them significantly worse than a short sword? Or something else edged? I'm in my mid-30's right now and hunting fine, but worried about harder critter levels in the future.
    I think before it is possible to comment, we would need to know your hunting style, I assume from your weapon choices you are a S&H ambush hunter, otherwise it does not make a lot of sense to use those two weapons. As for defense vs offense, my rogue uses two short swords, admittedly he is 71 so a fair amount more training, but except for some times when Mr. Murphy just feels like kicking my ass, he does fine aiming the short swords. Your goal as an ambusher should be to get instant kills or at least stuns every time you spring from hiding.

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