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Thread: Russia Investigation Cooling Down

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelston View Post
    Have you thanked Obama today?
    5 times every day.
    www.twitch.tv/3piecesofbread
    Quote Originally Posted by time4fun
    No, actually, Back is not an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Back
    I am a retard. I'm disabled. I'm poor. I'm black. I'm gay. I'm transgender. I'm a woman.


    Quote Originally Posted by Androidpk View Post
    And feel free to get me banned, not going to stop my lawyer from sending Kranar a subpoena for IP information on a couple of people.

  2. #12

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    Federal judge accuses Mueller's team of 'lying,' trying to target Trump: 'C'mon man!'

    A federal judge on Friday harshly rebuked Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team during a hearing for ex-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort – suggesting they lied about the scope of the investigation, are seeking “unfettered power” and are more interested in bringing down the president.

    "You don't really care about Mr. Manafort,” U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III told Mueller’s team. “You really care about what information Mr. Manafort can give you to lead you to Mr. Trump and an impeachment, or whatever."

    Further, Ellis demanded to see the unredacted “scope memo,” a document outlining the scope of the special counsel’s Russia probe that congressional Republicans have also sought.

    The hearing, where Manafort’s team fought to dismiss an 18-count indictment on tax and bank fraud-related charges, took a confrontational turn as it was revealed that at least some of the information in the investigation derived from an earlier Justice Department probe – in the U.S. attorney’s office for the Eastern District of Virginia.

    Manafort’s attorneys argue the special counsel does not have the power to indict him on the charges they have brought – and seemed to find a sympathetic ear with Ellis.

    The Reagan-appointed judge asked Mueller’s team where they got the authority to indict Manafort on alleged crimes dating as far back as 2005.

    The special counsel argues that Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein granted them broad authority in his May 2, 2017 letter appointing Mueller to this investigation. But after the revelation that the team is using information from the earlier DOJ probe, Ellis said that information did not “arise” out of the special counsel probe – and therefore may not be within the scope of that investigation.

    “We don’t want anyone with unfettered power,” he said.

    Mueller’s team says its authorities are laid out in documents including the August 2017 scope memo – and that some powers are actually secret because they involve ongoing investigations and national security matters that cannot be publicly disclosed.

    Ellis seemed amused and not persuaded.

    He summed up the argument of the Special Counsel’s Office as, "We said this was what [the] investigation was about, but we are not bound by it and we were lying."

    He referenced the common exclamation from NFL announcers, saying: "C'mon man!"

    The judge also gave the government two weeks to hand over the unredacted “scope memo” or provide an explanation why not -- after prosecutors were reluctant to do so, claiming it has material that doesn’t pertain to Manafort.

    “I’ll be the judge of that,” Ellis said.

    House Republicans have also sought the full document, though the Justice Department previously released a redacted version, which includes information related to Manafort but not much else.

    The charges in federal court in Virginia were on top of another round of charges in October. Manafort has pleaded not guilty to both rounds. The charges filed earlier this year include conspiring against the United States, conspiring to launder money, failing to register as an agent of a foreign principal and providing false statements.

    Earlier this year, Ellis suggested that Manafort could face life in prison, and “poses a substantial flight risk” because of his “financial means and international connections to flee and remain at large.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...-cmon-man.html

    www.twitch.tv/3piecesofbread
    Quote Originally Posted by time4fun
    No, actually, Back is not an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Back
    I am a retard. I'm disabled. I'm poor. I'm black. I'm gay. I'm transgender. I'm a woman.


    Quote Originally Posted by Androidpk View Post
    And feel free to get me banned, not going to stop my lawyer from sending Kranar a subpoena for IP information on a couple of people.

  3. Default

    Case law says prosecutors motives don't matter, the crime committed does. Just like the Judge told Manafort's lawyer.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Androidpk View Post
    Case law says prosecutors motives don't matter, the crime committed does. Just like the Judge told Manafort's lawyer.
    Yeah the entire exchange was incredibly strange. Absent corrupt intent or a violation of DoJ policy, the Judiciary doesn't get to determine the staffing plan of investigations and prosecutions if the Executive has signed off on it. And, at least to my knowledge, there's nothing that says you can't use charges to flip a witness. It's pretty standard practice. Does anyone know of any case law that suggests otherwise?

    What I really don't understand is why the Judge is asking for an unredacted version of the memo. The parts of it that are redacted aren't related to Manafort, and the parts that are already unredacted clearly indicate that Manafort's Ukraine work is under the purview of Mueller's investigation.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by time4fun View Post
    Yeah the entire exchange was incredibly strange. Absent corrupt intent or a violation of DoJ policy, the Judiciary doesn't get to determine the staffing plan of investigations and prosecutions if the Executive has signed off on it. And, at least to my knowledge, there's nothing that says you can't use charges to flip a witness. It's pretty standard practice. Does anyone know of any case law that suggests otherwise?

    What I really don't understand is why the Judge is asking for an unredacted version of the memo. The parts of it that are redacted aren't related to Manafort, and the parts that are already unredacted clearly indicate that Manafort's Ukraine work is under the purview of Mueller's investigation.
    One article opines that the judge is not wanting to be used in a trial that will go away as soon as Manafort flips. He doesn't want to be known as the judge in this case or have his legacy be about a case that's only leverage against a client so he'd like to push it off to another district the way they referred out the Cohen case.

    That makes some sense. It also could reflect something I said earlier. Trump can't win in a fair fight and doesn't believe in fighting fair anyway. They won't make a brilliant legal case to defend him on a level playing field. If he wins it's going to have to be in some other crazy way. Some sort of "October surprise" drastic measures that do an end run around the process because he sure as hell can't make it through a straight investigation involving things like him giving a deposition before a grand jury.

    This judge is worrisome. Our entire legal system is adversarial. We base convictions on turning people to make them flip on a bigger fish. Now this judge is repeating almost verbatim some of the talking points about the "witch hunt" and trying to force DOJ to release more confidential information the way Nunes has done. Once again it occurs to me that the normal people of this country still haven't grasped the idea that we are up against a total scorched earth take no prisoners win at all costs right wing.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neveragain View Post
    In before democrats say this is bad for reasons that make no fucking sense at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelston View Post
    Thanks Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelston View Post
    Have you thanked Obama today?
    You're not too far off really. Obama got this ball rolling. All the way down to what 4-5% range? Trump doesn't believe these numbers though. They're all fake. Judging by his ideas the real unemployment must still be up around 15-20%.

    Sep. 7, 2012
    “Unemployment rate only dropped because more people are out of labor force & have stopped looking for work. Not a real recovery, phony numbers”
    Oct. 19, 2012
    "7.8% unemployment number is a complete fraud as evidenced by the jobless claims number released yesterday. Real unemployment is at least 15%”
    Aug. 11, 2013
    “We can rev up this economy like it should be, not with false numbers like 7.4 percent unemployment. But with real numbers.”
    May 31, 2014
    “Unemployment is a totally phony number.”
    June 16, 2015
    “Our real unemployment is anywhere from 18 to 20 percent. Don't believe the 5.6. Don't believe it.”
    Aug. 11, 2015
    “Then you hear there's a 5.4 percent unemployment. It's really — if you add it up, it's probably 40 percent if you think about it.”
    Aug. 30, 2015
    “They show those phony statistics where we are 5.4 percent unemployment. The real number, I saw a number that could be 42 percent, believe it or not.”
    Sept. 28, 2015
    “I hear 5.3 percent unemployment, that is the biggest joke there is in this country. That number is so false.”

    Sept. 29, 2015
    “The number is not reflective. I have seen numbers of 24 percent. I saw a number of 42 percent unemployment. … That number is so false.”
    Oct. 9, 2015
    “They say 5.3 percent employment. The number is probably 32 percent.”
    Oct. 11, 2015
    “Nobody has jobs. … It is not a real economy. It is a phony set of numbers. They cooked the books.”
    Jan. 17, 2016
    “Look again, you hear these phony jobs numbers? People that gave up looking for jobs? They are considered employed.”
    Feb. 9, 2016
    “Don't believe those phony numbers when you hear 4.9 and 5 percent unemployment. As high as 35 — as in fact, I heard recently, 42 percent.”
    March 12, 2016
    “The numbers are phony. These are all phony numbers. Numbers given to politicians to look good. These are phony numbers.”
    May 24, 2016
    “You hear a 5 percent unemployment rate. It's such a phony number. That number was put in for presidents and for politicians so that they look good to the people.”
    July 7, 2016
    “The phony 5 percent numbers that we hear about with the unemployment.”

    Aug. 8, 2016
    “The 5 percent figure is one of the biggest hoaxes in modern politics.”
    Nov. 4, 2016
    “The terrible jobs report that just came out … you can see phony numbers, 5 percent.”
    Dec. 8, 2016
    “The unemployment number, as you know, is totally fiction.”

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methais View Post
    Federal judge accuses Mueller's team of 'lying,' trying to target Trump: 'C'mon man!'

    A federal judge on Friday harshly rebuked Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team during a hearing for ex-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort – suggesting they lied about the scope of the investigation, are seeking “unfettered power” and are more interested in bringing down the president.

    "You don't really care about Mr. Manafort,” U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III told Mueller’s team. “You really care about what information Mr. Manafort can give you to lead you to Mr. Trump and an impeachment, or whatever."

    Further, Ellis demanded to see the unredacted “scope memo,” a document outlining the scope of the special counsel’s Russia probe that congressional Republicans have also sought.

    The hearing, where Manafort’s team fought to dismiss an 18-count indictment on tax and bank fraud-related charges, took a confrontational turn as it was revealed that at least some of the information in the investigation derived from an earlier Justice Department probe – in the U.S. attorney’s office for the Eastern District of Virginia.

    Manafort’s attorneys argue the special counsel does not have the power to indict him on the charges they have brought – and seemed to find a sympathetic ear with Ellis.

    The Reagan-appointed judge asked Mueller’s team where they got the authority to indict Manafort on alleged crimes dating as far back as 2005.

    The special counsel argues that Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein granted them broad authority in his May 2, 2017 letter appointing Mueller to this investigation. But after the revelation that the team is using information from the earlier DOJ probe, Ellis said that information did not “arise” out of the special counsel probe – and therefore may not be within the scope of that investigation.

    “We don’t want anyone with unfettered power,” he said.

    Mueller’s team says its authorities are laid out in documents including the August 2017 scope memo – and that some powers are actually secret because they involve ongoing investigations and national security matters that cannot be publicly disclosed.

    Ellis seemed amused and not persuaded.

    He summed up the argument of the Special Counsel’s Office as, "We said this was what [the] investigation was about, but we are not bound by it and we were lying."

    He referenced the common exclamation from NFL announcers, saying: "C'mon man!"

    The judge also gave the government two weeks to hand over the unredacted “scope memo” or provide an explanation why not -- after prosecutors were reluctant to do so, claiming it has material that doesn’t pertain to Manafort.

    “I’ll be the judge of that,” Ellis said.

    House Republicans have also sought the full document, though the Justice Department previously released a redacted version, which includes information related to Manafort but not much else.

    The charges in federal court in Virginia were on top of another round of charges in October. Manafort has pleaded not guilty to both rounds. The charges filed earlier this year include conspiring against the United States, conspiring to launder money, failing to register as an agent of a foreign principal and providing false statements.

    Earlier this year, Ellis suggested that Manafort could face life in prison, and “poses a substantial flight risk” because of his “financial means and international connections to flee and remain at large.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...-cmon-man.html



    Quote Originally Posted by SHAFT View Post
    Fuck the Bible and fuck you. Took over 2 years to get Nixon. Trump is fucked, just like you. ✌🏻❤️
    Quote Originally Posted by SHAFT View Post
    You show me a video of me typing that and Ill admit it.

    Not sure why you'd create a false statement by me and put it in your signature. Seems kinda creepy...

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by time4fun View Post
    Yeah the entire exchange was incredibly strange. Absent corrupt intent or a violation of DoJ policy, the Judiciary doesn't get to determine the staffing plan of investigations and prosecutions if the Executive has signed off on it. And, at least to my knowledge, there's nothing that says you can't use charges to flip a witness. It's pretty standard practice. Does anyone know of any case law that suggests otherwise?

    What I really don't understand is why the Judge is asking for an unredacted version of the memo. The parts of it that are redacted aren't related to Manafort, and the parts that are already unredacted clearly indicate that Manafort's Ukraine work is under the purview of Mueller's investigation.


    Quote Originally Posted by SHAFT View Post
    Fuck the Bible and fuck you. Took over 2 years to get Nixon. Trump is fucked, just like you. ✌🏻❤️
    Quote Originally Posted by SHAFT View Post
    You show me a video of me typing that and Ill admit it.

    Not sure why you'd create a false statement by me and put it in your signature. Seems kinda creepy...

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwolff View Post
    You're not too far off really. Obama got this ball rolling. All the way down to what 4-5% range? Trump doesn't believe these numbers though. They're all fake. Judging by his ideas the real unemployment must still be up around 15-20%.


    Quote Originally Posted by SHAFT View Post
    Fuck the Bible and fuck you. Took over 2 years to get Nixon. Trump is fucked, just like you. ✌🏻❤️
    Quote Originally Posted by SHAFT View Post
    You show me a video of me typing that and Ill admit it.

    Not sure why you'd create a false statement by me and put it in your signature. Seems kinda creepy...

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gelston View Post
    Thanks Obama.
    I think we have to thank George Bush, he enacted the first policies to head off the recession, clearly 9/11 and the recession was Clinton's fault.


    Quote Originally Posted by SHAFT View Post
    Fuck the Bible and fuck you. Took over 2 years to get Nixon. Trump is fucked, just like you. ✌🏻❤️
    Quote Originally Posted by SHAFT View Post
    You show me a video of me typing that and Ill admit it.

    Not sure why you'd create a false statement by me and put it in your signature. Seems kinda creepy...

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