Official: Teleportation Changes Phase 2

[khorpulent]

I mean, come on, everyone knows they don't release cool changes for wizards without including idiotic water lore requirements.

[Methais]

I mean, come on, everyone knows they don't release cool changes for wizards without including idiotic water lore requirements.

Still waiting for BigWorm to enlighten me on how to train a wizard.

[BigWorm]

Fire lore gives a huge AS/CS bonus to 950, AS bonus to 513, double fire strikes on 917, an extra cast of 415 if there’s a 2nd target in the room, bonus to Immolate though that isn’t really shit anymore, a bunch of other combat benefits that you don’t get from other lores, etc.

917 wasn’t a factor for picking up earth lore, but is still good to have vs. targets you can’t stun or knock down.

60 earth lore halves the cooldown of 950 from 1 min to 30 seconds. How do you play a wizard and not know this?

Water lore is mostly useless for combat, and air lore doesn’t offer anything combat related that I need unless you count less RT on foraging bounties, and what, Sandstorm builds up faster? As if anyone gives a fuck about that pile of shit spell.

My problem with lores is they have high lore requirements scattered all over the place for mostly stupid meh effects, and being the only pure class with a 4-way lore split while other pures have a 3-way split and typically much lower lore thresholds for benefits that are usually worth training for. It’s not about having a hardon for fire lore so much as the other lores still offer less. The only hardon here is the ongoing one you’ve had for me.

But feel free to share your wisdom on how I should be training my lores and why. You’re clearly very knowledgeable on things like earth lore.

https://gswiki.play.net/Elemental_Lore,_Fire
https://gswiki.play.net/Elemental_Lore,_Earth
https://gswiki.play.net/Elemental_Lore,_Water
https://gswiki.play.net/Elemental_Lore,_Air

Stop trying to make Immolation happen. Immolation is a garbage tier spell so I don't understand why you would invest lore towards it. I'm aware of the AS bonus from 513, but why do you need so much AS from fire lore to hit stuff? I usually only miss with bolts because of EBP. I thought the threshold for 2nd use of 950 was 50 ranks, but I don't ever need to use that more than once per minute even on Reim bosses, so I am not sure why you need that so badly. Water lore affects the most bolt spell DFs and also 917 damage so doesn't make sense that you say its mostly useless in combat. Air lore is the best defensive lore because of 535 RT reduction, so that makes it pretty useful in combat. I'd much rather have less RT lock than train earth lore for a tiny slot machine chance at a minor defense bonus.

[Methais]

Stop trying to make Immolation happen. Immolation is a garbage tier spell so I don't understand why you would invest lore towards it.

I had a lot of fire lore for a number of reasons. Immolate was pretty low on that list post nerf. Despite that, Immolate still wrecks in places like Nelemar and OTF. It struggles against high TD targets and is near useless vs. non-corporeal, but high TD usually means squishy target, and 917 usually takes care of those pretty easily. Even moreso when you're getting double fire crits left and right. 917 cold works the same but with water lore, but most undead at cap are immune to cold, and fire tears them apart.

The other side of that is low TD usually = heavier armor, so 917 usually sucks vs. those whereas Immolate usually wrecks. Fire performs well on most undead in general. Troll warcamps too, but I only go to those when I'm just fucking around and want to see screen scroll that looks like GS3 Dark Catalyst. It's still a trash spell compared to how it used to be, but it's not really lore dependent anymore either.

I'm aware of the AS bonus from 513, but why do you need so much AS from fire lore to hit stuff?

Most of the fire lore training isn't for AS bonus. It's not all that important with 513, since the bonus only kicks in on consecutive bolts vs the same target, but it's a non-factor for why I picked up fire lore. The good fire lore AS bonus for me is for 950.

I thought the threshold for 2nd use of 950 was 50 ranks, but I don't ever need to use that more than once per minute even on Reim bosses, so I am not sure why you need that so badly.

When the Confluence or whatever is swarming, you either wipe out the room quick, run, or die. Even with 2 casts of 950 per minute, I find myself waiting on its cooldown fairly frequently. Which is a good thing, because places that swarm are much more fun for me than places that don't. 518 is still good, but 950 rarely doesn't wipe out an entire room in one cast, and having to cast more than once can be a dice roll in swarm situations, especially in a place like the Confluence where things can't really be crowd controlled at all and are throwing maneuvers and major ewaves and all sorts of other shit at you. The only crowd control exception is with 512, sort of. It works on the cold side and vs lightning elementals on the hot side, but never lasts long even on a high warding roll because they just break out of it after a few seconds anyway, and they can still attack and cast while in it, they just can't use maneuvers. 99% of my deaths in the Confluence are from a lightning elemental casting major ewave. I could cast 2 stacks and prevent them from doing anything at all for a few seconds, but why spend 24 mana to crowd control a room that's going to be broken out of in seconds anyway, when you can spend 50 and wipe out the entire room instantly instead?

Water lore affects the most bolt spell DFs

901 903 904 907 910 are affected. 901 is trash after rats, 903 only gets used to cool off my armor, 904 is ok, 907 is on par with 908 but most undead are immune to cold, and 910 is too expensive to cast when you're mostly killing via attrition because we have no control over where our bolts hit. The best part about water lore in regards to bolts is that 30 ranks will unlock Major Acid. Which is good, but still costs 10 mana. Lava, fire, and steam elementals are also immune to minor/major acid.

Minor Steam is still more efficient than all of those spells in most situations and only costs 4 mana.

The additional DF is mostly unnoticeable on any bolt spell, even with heavy lore training. I've never trained in a lore because of the DF bonus it adds to a bolt spell, because that would be retarded.

and also 917 damage so doesn't make sense that you say its mostly useless in combat.

Water lore has the same effect on 917 that fire lore has on it, but for ice. The problem is that at least at cap, fire is typically more useful, since most undead are immune to cold. I don't use this spell in the Confluence anyway because nothing in there is crittable and you can't just stand around waiting for them to die, and I mostly spam Minor Steam when I'm farming favor. I mainly use 917 when I'm in the Scatter or something and run into high TD targets that Immolate struggles with.

Air lore is the best defensive lore because of 535 RT reduction, so that makes it pretty useful in combat.

Air lore is convenient, but I rarely have RT issues in combat and can't remember the last time I died from being in RT, so it would be pointless for me. The most use I would get out of it is 1 second foraging for herb bounties, or a lower RT when I decide to go fuck around with swinging a weapon out of boredom.

I'd much rather have less RT lock than train earth lore for a tiny slot machine chance at a minor defense bonus.

What makes you think I'm training earth lore for a proc? Pretty sure I stated specifically why I have earth lore already, and none of that slot machine proc bullshit was ever mentioned, so I don't know where you got that from.

The only times I remember any of those procs even exist is when I reflect an earth elemental's bolt with a 507 proc, it kills the earth elemental, and then the earth elemental's corpse falls on me and stuns/kills me, which is too funny to get mad over when it does happen.

With 60 earth lore I get:

- 30 second 950 cooldown
- 2x 550 per day
- +23 crit padding while stunned with 520 earth active (+23 pre-WPS number) while stunned. This isn't a proc. It's always active when you're stunned. I was looking at the wrong chart on the wiki yesterday when I said +7.
- A bunch of slot machine bullshit that I never pay any attention to or notice.


That, combined with my ECP armor puts me at fantastically padded (+38, pre WPS numbers) while stunned. Combine that with +35 damage absorption from my runestaff's super bubble flares, and it becomes very difficult for me to die in the Confluence outside of insta gib shit like major ewave, when nothing can hit you for more than 1 damage.



The argument isn't that I have to have tons of fire lore in order to hunt. That's you coming up with that dumb shit. It's still the most useful combat lore imo unless you're a war mage. If dev would tone down the lore and setup requirements for 512/shatter and not have it require 200 fucking ranks of water lore to be reliable, and allowed 20 ranks to unlock Minor Cold, I might change my mind, but that has all been brought up several times to dev and Estild seems to think that requiring 200 ranks of water lore to have a 100% chance to shatter a target for 50% of their HP is balanced.

In case anyone forgot how Shatter works, which is probably most people since no one actually uses it:



Shit like that is the mindset that Simu can't shake when deciding lore requirements, and it's retarded as fuck that they think this is balance.

But the original argument is that water lore shouldn't even be a requirement for wizards to use new 930 when every other profession requires 0 lore to use theirs. And even with 75 ranks we still get a huge 33% failure rate that requires another 100 ranks to mitigate. The only time lore comes into play for everyone else is if they want to mitigate interception rates when teleporting without a gold ring. Which will also apply to almost no one since people have always kept gold rings on them and will just keep even more of them now.

What sense does that make?

[Gelston]

tl;dr

[Methais]

tl;dr

Reported.

TLDR: Reported

[peam]

Reported.

TLDR: Reported

If I were still a Super Moderator, I'd take care of this scumbag with no mercy.

[Taernath]

If I were still a Super Moderator, I'd take case of this scumbag with no mercy.

You had your chance with the Flimbo Forums.

[peam]

You had your chance with the Flimbo Forums.

They quit working on Chrome.

Plus provoking that circlejerk is funny.

[khorpulent]

What's especially dumb about the water lore requirements is the fact that it's not consistent with the time-oriented aspects of 535, 540, 550 (I'm assuming that the CHRONOmage has something to do with time, eh?). If water lore had something to do with controlling the flow of time, then why the hell isn't it a requirement to speed up, reverse, or stop time in any of those three spells?