Denouement of U.S. Empire

[cwolff]

Again, an investigation exists to FIND evidence of misconduct. Why are you against this?

There has to be some probable cause. Trump can't just demand investigations. He shouldn't have the authority for it, but we've not been in a situation like this before. It doesn't seem illegal for him to do this but even if it were, the only people that can stop him are in congress and they won't.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't believe that the administration that used the IRS to target political groups didn't also use the FBI to target certain political groups.

That's another conspiracy theory dude. I think we've talked about this before but it becomes religious at some point. I don't believe in god and I don't believe in conspiracy theories.

[RichardCranium]

How is it a conspiracy when the IRS admitted it?

[Gelston]

There has to be some probable cause. Trump can't just demand investigations. He shouldn't have the authority for it, but we've not been in a situation like this before. It doesn't seem illegal for him to do this but even if it were, the only people that can stop him are in congress and they won't.

You are heavily confusing legal terms here. There only needs to be allegations. Probable cause is used to obtain a warrant. You don't need probable cause to launch an investigation.

[Taernath]

You'll have to excuse me if I don't believe that the administration that used the IRS to target political groups didn't also use the FBI to target certain political groups.

They also targeted liberal groups. It wasn't a purely right vs. left thing.

[RichardCranium]

They also targeted liberal groups. It wasn't a purely right vs. left thing.

I never mentioned a side. I don't care about left or right.

[cwolff]

How is it a conspiracy when the IRS admitted it?

They targeted liberal groups too. I agree it's a bad look and the IRS paid a settlement but the idea the whole blame Obama thing is just too much especially as a rationalization for what trumps doing. I know I won't turn your mind and there are many people who think the same. That's why this thread has this title. It's over. The USA as we know it is a lost cause.

You are heavily confusing legal terms here. There only needs to be allegations. Probable cause is used to obtain a warrant. You don't need probable cause to launch an investigation.

I think it's legal what he did in that there's nothing to stop him. No law on the books so I don't mean probable cause in a 4th amendment sense though it will quickly get there if they're performing searches on FBI employees for nothing more than one mans profiling. You need something to start an investigation without abusing the laws of this country and everything we stand for.

[RichardCranium]

I'm not rationalizing what Trump has done or is doing. I also never said it was illegal to have informants. Im just pointing out hypocrisy.

[Gelston]

I think it's legal what he did in that there's nothing to stop him. No law on the books so I don't mean probable cause in a 4th amendment sense though it will quickly get there if they're performing searches on FBI employees for nothing more than one mans profiling. You need something to start an investigation without abusing the laws of this country and everything we stand for.

The only thing you need is allegations. Same thing as a police report. When you call the police and say "Hey, this shit just happened on my yard." they show up and begin an investigation, on nothing more than your say that something happened. When they get there they search for evidence. If they find some, they continue. If they don't, they tel you to stop wasting their time and leave.

Same shit here.

[cwolff]

The only thing you need is allegations. Same thing as a police report. When you call the police and say "Hey, this shit just happened on my yard." they show up and begin an investigation, on nothing more than your say that something happened. When they get there they search for evidence. If they find some, they continue. If they don't, they tel you to stop wasting their time and leave.

Same shit here.

I don't know man. Maybe you're right. I don't have the information to prove you're not right. It's precedent that the POTUS stays out of this DOJ business but not law. He has tremendous power to abuse and this guy's choosing to do that. He's already been told there was no wiretapping. He's also boss of the DOJ and can find out whatever he wants by having a meeting without attempting to destroy DOJ. If he's impeached and loses and this comes up, then we'll know he technically committed a crime.

[Gelston]

I don't know man. Maybe you're right. I don't have the information to prove you're not right. It's precedent that the POTUS stays out of this DOJ business but not law. He has tremendous power to abuse and this guy's choosing to do that. He's already been told there was no wiretapping. He's also boss of the DOJ and can find out whatever he wants by having a meeting without attempting to destroy DOJ. If he's impeached and loses and this comes up, then we'll know he technically committed a crime.

He is over the DOJ, but they have a history of hiding stuff from Administrations. One only needs look at J. Edgar Hoover.