Sexual Harassment claims

[Nieninque]

I don't know which is more inane, your hysterical rantings because I dared to suggest that we should apply a critical eye to accusations that ruin people's lives to determine their veracity and perhaps to establish some kind of genuine guideline on what is and isn't harassment so that we protect the rights of the accused properly OR your ridiculous leap of fancy in claiming that I am worried that accusations of harassment will topple some patriarchy also in your fantasy land.

Thereby proving my previous post.

Why would you apply a critical eye to allegations of sexual assault. That isnt the starting point for allegations of fraud or robbery. Why sexual assault?
There is no greater incidence of false allegations of sexual assault than any other crime, so why are abuse victims treated with "a critical eye" (aka, scepticism/disbelief) when in fact all that needs to happen is for the evidence to be gathered non-judgementally, then applied to criminal law thresholds to see whether it meets the burden of proof?

[ClydeR]

This has to do with the bullshit narrative that we're supposed to ignore the allegations if it's just one or two victims, as is the case with George Takei and Al Franken. Oh, wait, maybe we're just supposed to ignore one or two allegations if they are hurled at a Democrat? Like I said, we need rules established

There are rules..

"One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established." Deuteronomy 19:15

[~Rocktar~]

Thereby proving my previous post.

Why would you apply a critical eye to allegations of sexual assault. That isnt the starting point for allegations of fraud or robbery. Why sexual assault?
There is no greater incidence of false allegations of sexual assault than any other crime, so why are abuse victims treated with "a critical eye" (aka, scepticism/disbelief) when in fact all that needs to happen is for the evidence to be gathered non-judgementally, then applied to criminal law thresholds to see whether it meets the burden of proof?

Incorrect. When someone accuses another of fraud, someone reviews the complaint to determine if it is possibly, in fact fraud and not just regret or stupidity. This is EXACTLY what I think is not happening now. People hear an accusation and the roasting begins, jobs are lost, careers ended and so on all the while, no standard of what is and isn't abuse/harassment and barely any responsibility for any false accusations. Also, there is no real standard for what is and what is not harassment or abuse.

So you have a system where the accusation makes you guilty and you suffer the consequences of that without trial, without evidence and without even a reasonable guideline of what is and is not abuse/harassment and yet you and others can't see the problem with this? And I am the evil misogynist because I want to actually use the justice system properly and protect the rights of the accused from abuse. What's wrong with this picture?

[Tisket]

LOL, Rocktard called a woman hysterical because she didn't agree with him. What a surprise.

[Latrinsorm]

Al Franken should resign. So far Democrats have been calling for Roy Moore's head based on allegations and here we have photographic evidence of Franken's misdeeds and he shouldn't resign? Not to mention in most cases of Moore's it was him dating 16 year old girls, not even illegal in Alabama.

It's time for these people to reap what they sow. Or are they going to come out with a guidebook to let us know what is and is not acceptable behavior for a sitting Senator? Are they going to let us know the magical number of alleged victims that need to come forward before the allegations are taken seriously? Does photographic evidence not carry more weight than someone's unverified accusations?

This is the problem when you insist on going after your political opponents for everything without first establishing boundaries; sometimes it comes back to bite you in the ass.

If Senator Franken resigns (which I think he should) the Democrat Governor will just appoint another Democrat Senator. If Moore formally withdraws from the campaign, the Democrat will win. That's why no Republican is demanding or even suggesting a quid pro quo here. Happy to help.

How many molesters and rapists ask their victims if they can do X, Y, and Z to them? Zero. Absolutely fucking zero.

You are wildly misinformed on this topic, but nowhere more than this.

We live in a nation of laws founded on the idea that people are innocent until proven guilty.

*in a court of law

[Nieninque]

Incorrect.

He says,

When someone accuses another of fraud, someone reviews the complaint to determine if it is possibly, in fact fraud

Proving my point once again.

In the case of fraud, one gathers the evidence submits the necessary tests against the burden of proof.

With sexual assault, one asks the victim whether they are lying. One then behaves as though the victim is lying...then when confirmation bias comes to be, one castigates the victim for lying...even though they arent.

[HeyJoe]

I am not wrong. There is a line between real harassment and what is just crude behavior and people will get to where they take it too far and can't tell the difference. When you cry fire enough times, people stop listening. It is good that people can come forward and be believed. It is bad when useless pieces of flesh can falsely accuse people, ruin their life and possibly get them in prison because they regret their decisions or just think it's funny.

There are a lot of crimes these days where you are guilty until proven innocent, and then you are still guilty. Rape, molestation, sexual harassment and so on. This is bullshit and it will come back to bite people in the ass. We are past that line with the discussion of race and racism, we are running toward the line at break neck speed with sexual harassment and so on assuming that we have not already passed it.

I have been the victim of false accusations of rape, sexual harassment and racism. In each case, it was a case of someone got their feelings hurt and tried to get even in whatever way was handy. This isn't helpful for working on ending real racism, real harassment, real exploitation and other issues. Saying that the concern for where the line is and that we need to work with caution, reason and thoughtful deliberation on finding it and dealing with the issues is not wrong. Saying that we should take all cases of accusations as truth 100% truth is mush headed.

You have had multiple people "falsely" accuse you, eh? Ever think that maybe, just maybe, it isn't them, it is you?

Nah, I'm sure I'm just talking crazy.

[~Rocktar~]

LOL, Rocktard called a woman hysterical because she didn't agree with him. What a surprise.

Actually I am calling YOU hysterical because you have gone off on an irrational rant simply because I want to see sexual harassment and abuse allegations investigated properly, the rights of the accused protected equally under the law and false accusers held accountable and you want anyone that is accused to be persecuted until death without the thinest shred of evidence. I disagreed with you and off you went into a nearly incoherent screed.

Proving my point once again.

In the case of fraud, one gathers the evidence submits the necessary tests against the burden of proof.

With sexual assault, one asks the victim whether they are lying. One then behaves as though the victim is lying...then when confirmation bias comes to be, one castigates the victim for lying...even though they arent.

You really have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to criminal investigations. Also, I am pretty much arguing for the presentation of evidence and a clear guideline which is what you say you want however you are clearly too stupid to understand that. Not my fault.

You have had multiple people "falsely" accuse you, eh? Ever think that maybe, just maybe, it isn't them, it is you?

Nah, I'm sure I'm just talking crazy.

Being in a management role in a call center, no, it's not me, it was them. It is a terribly common thing, so much so that training is provided for dealing with it. Since call centers are predominantly staffed by women, it is very common tactic used against all members of management regardless of sex or sexual orientation.

[Parkbandit]

That's the way it is in all cases. There is often corroboration of various aspects.

Sexual assault is the only crime though, where the investigation begins by disbelieving the victim.

Yes, yes.... we should always believe the victim, no matter what.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case

[Gelston]

I personally feel that in cases of sexual assault, rape, etc... The police should keep both identities secret until the trial ends. At that time if the person is guilty, then release their ID.

This current stuff though, nothing is going to the police. Straight to social media. Yes, there are folks who doubt every woman's claim, but I think it still destroy's the accused's standing in society.