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Thread: NFL players kneeling during National Anthem

  1. #21

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    I kind of wish I watched sports just so I can stop watching them and buying their merchandise.

    You win this round, NFL!
    @Gelston notice me, senpai!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latrinsorm View Post
    There are a couple things wrong here. First, at no point has any NFL player ever had in their contract (i.e. their expected standard of performance) that they would stand during the national anthem, any more than any NFL player has ever had in their contract that they be an American citizen. Sebastian Janikowski is playing in his one thousandth year in the NFL and is a Polish citizen, for example. Second, the NFL has a monopoly, which cannot be said for any hospital, political organization, or adult entertainment facility. Monopolies are not comparable to free markets, because they are monopolies, not free markets.
    Stating facts not in evidence. Neither you or I have full knowledge of all NFL player contracts. Also, I am sure that there is some behavior or meeting standards clause in their contracts.
    One does not have to be a citizen to stand for the national anthem. For example, note the Ravens and Jaguar players today in Wembley Stadium.
    The status of the NFL as a monopoly does not preclude the fact that should you chose to work for them, you must meet their standards of employment.

    Neither NFL stars nor celebrities are strictly speaking our employees, but your point stands. Why do you suppose, then, that no NFL player has suffered any repercussions for this behavior? You declare Kaepernick a mediocre player, so his current lack of employment is irrelevant. Isn't the simplest explanation that the majority of the country actually doesn't mind this?
    Again, stating facts not in evidence. You do not know if there have been any repercussions. No, the simplest explanation is that the NFL and people in it live in a bubble and the lost ticket sales and revenue have not yet reached sufficient levels to burst that bubble. There have indeed been comments and concern expressed by several owners so far even with some owners continuing to support the entitled "protesters".

    The NFL is before anything else a business, and it is run by the owners, approximately half of whom have amassed over a billion dollars.
    Surely you can concede that they know more about the business of business than you or I, yes?
    Surely you can agree they have taken no steps whatsoever to litigate this behavior, yes?
    Surely you can recognize that they have even sent their mouthpiece to criticize your criticism, yes?
    They may know more about their business, however that does not invalidate anything I have said.
    Again stating facts not in evidence, the lack of public knowledge of any litigation does not guarantee that it has not happened and more importantly does not mean that it will not.
    Sending Goodell out to voice an opinion that differs from mine has no bearing on the issue.

    How long until you realize that this is not a left vs. right issue? Not a 50/50 proposition? That you are in fact in the dwindling minority?

    Step out of the echo chamber from time to time. It will do your ears good, at least.
    At no time did I say that it is a Left/Right issue, you did. I saw it as an entitled brat showed his ass in "protest" got called out on it and then doubled down crying "racism".

    If I am in the minority and I am a conservative and you are again positioning yourself with the "majority" then you are indeed conceding that you are the Liberal that we all know you to be, correct?

    Further, arguing to the majority is not an argument. At one time, Lord Kelvin was quoted "Radio has no future." "X-rays are clearly a hoax". "The aeroplane is scientifically impossible." Just because you state something that appears to be so called "common knowledge" does not make it true.

    Next irrational spewage disguised as "rational" argument?
    I asked for neither your Opinion,
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tgo01 View Post
    I kind of wish I watched sports just so I can stop watching them and buying their merchandise.

    You win this round, NFL!
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Tgo01 again.

    Yup.
    I asked for neither your Opinion,
    your Acceptance
    nor your Permission.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkbandit View Post
    No.

    Hey Gompers, just curious - did you ever graduate from a real university?
    Crazy. You're s just so patriotic about this (like our President) I'd have assumed that you risked your life and limbs to protect our country!

    What was your excuse for not serving? Was it bone spurs? It amazes me that couch patriots like yourself and the President find this so upsetting, when actual patriots (who answered the call from their country) got injured (visible or not) died, and/or lost friends fighting for the EXACT unalienable rights these players are exercising.

    But of course you didn't serve, you're no better than Trump - a nutless coward who projects their own insecurities in order to divide others.

    Edit: Sorry, went to Texas State on the GI Bill. I suppose you'll argue that I did not.
    Last edited by Gompers; 09-24-2017 at 07:04 PM. Reason: University

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~ View Post
    Stating facts not in evidence. Neither you or I have full knowledge of all NFL player contracts. Also, I am sure that there is some behavior or meeting standards clause in their contracts.
    One does not have to be a citizen to stand for the national anthem. For example, note the Ravens and Jaguar players today in Wembley Stadium.
    The status of the NFL as a monopoly does not preclude the fact that should you chose to work for them, you must meet their standards of employment.



    Again, stating facts not in evidence. You do not know if there have been any repercussions. No, the simplest explanation is that the NFL and people in it live in a bubble and the lost ticket sales and revenue have not yet reached sufficient levels to burst that bubble. There have indeed been comments and concern expressed by several owners so far even with some owners continuing to support the entitled "protesters".



    They may know more about their business, however that does not invalidate anything I have said.
    Again stating facts not in evidence, the lack of public knowledge of any litigation does not guarantee that it has not happened and more importantly does not mean that it will not.
    Sending Goodell out to voice an opinion that differs from mine has no bearing on the issue.



    At no time did I say that it is a Left/Right issue, you did. I saw it as an entitled brat showed his ass in "protest" got called out on it and then doubled down crying "racism".

    If I am in the minority and I am a conservative and you are again positioning yourself with the "majority" then you are indeed conceding that you are the Liberal that we all know you to be, correct?

    Further, arguing to the majority is not an argument. At one time, Lord Kelvin was quoted "Radio has no future." "X-rays are clearly a hoax". "The aeroplane is scientifically impossible." Just because you state something that appears to be so called "common knowledge" does not make it true.

    Next irrational spewage disguised as "rational" argument?
    Whew, where to begin.

    1. I do in fact have full knowledge of NFL player contracts, and absolutely none of them stipulate a player stand for the anthem. You have only to produce one to the contrary. Good luck.
    2. I did not say a person has to be a citizen to stand for the anthem. I brought nationality up only to illustrate what is and is not in a contract. You inferred, I did not imply. That's on you.
    3. I do know there have been no repercussions. Michael Bennett still has a job. Aaron Rodgers still has a job. And so on, and so on.
    4. You have expressly claimed that the NFL has a standard of performance that demands standing for the anthem, so the lack of punishment for not doing so directly and absolutely invalidates what you have said.
    5. I have (still) never called myself a conservative. Your comically inept gotcha attempt embarrassed you, and me, and anyone else who had the misfortune of reading it.
    6. I remain a registered Republican. You manifestly can't handle that. I can live with that.
    7. That I stand with the majority on this issue does not put me in the liberal camp. Quite to the contrary: the majority can only be constructed when the moderates side with either extreme.
    8. They have done so here.
    9. You were wrong.
    10. You remain wrong.

    Bottom line, you continue to believe that anything has anything to do with rational argument.
    These are facts, and facts only. You can't ponder them and come up with what's right.
    You have to actually go out in the real world.
    Good luck.
    Hasta pronto, porque la vida no termina aqui...
    America, stop pushing. I know what I'm doing.

  6. #26
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    Maybe Kaepernick will get hired now.
    We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men. Edward R. Murrow

  7. #27

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    I think that the words of the President from all the way back in January should guide the actions of his followers...

    "Peaceful protests are a hallmark of our democracy. Even if I don't always agree, I recognize the rights of people to express their views."
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...74199036542980

    Strange how that message seems to have changed.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenlaar View Post
    I think that the words of the President from all the way back in January should guide the actions of his followers...

    "Peaceful protests are a hallmark of our democracy. Even if I don't always agree, I recognize the rights of people to express their views."
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...74199036542980

    Strange how that message seems to have changed.
    I recognize their rights to express their views. I also recognize my right to think they're assholes.

    If they have a problem with Trump then take it up with him, why take it out on everyone who thinks it's disrespectful to disrespect the national anthem?

    It's not like they were originally protesting anything in particular, just some vague bullshit about how blacks are oh so oppressed in this country, coming from black people making literally millions of dollars a year to throw around a damn ball.
    Last edited by Tgo01; 09-24-2017 at 08:09 PM.
    @Gelston notice me, senpai!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Latrinsorm View Post
    Whew, where to begin.

    1. I do in fact have full knowledge of NFL player contracts, and absolutely none of them stipulate a player stand for the anthem. You have only to produce one to the contrary. Good luck.
    2. I did not say a person has to be a citizen to stand for the anthem. I brought nationality up only to illustrate what is and is not in a contract. You inferred, I did not imply. That's on you.
    3. I do know there have been no repercussions. Michael Bennett still has a job. Aaron Rodgers still has a job. And so on, and so on.
    4. You have expressly claimed that the NFL has a standard of performance that demands standing for the anthem, so the lack of punishment for not doing so directly and absolutely invalidates what you have said.
    5. I have (still) never called myself a conservative. Your comically inept gotcha attempt embarrassed you, and me, and anyone else who had the misfortune of reading it.
    6. I remain a registered Republican. You manifestly can't handle that. I can live with that.
    7. That I stand with the majority on this issue does not put me in the liberal camp. Quite to the contrary: the majority can only be constructed when the moderates side with either extreme.
    8. They have done so here.
    9. You were wrong.
    10. You remain wrong.

    Bottom line, you continue to believe that anything has anything to do with rational argument.
    These are facts, and facts only. You can't ponder them and come up with what's right.
    You have to actually go out in the real world.
    Good luck.
    re:
    1. Actually proof of knowledge requires a suitable demonstration, the burden of proof is on you to prove you have full knowledge of NFL player contracts. So demonstrate away. Until you do, I and others will continue to take your words for what they are worth.

    3 and 4. Just because we have not yet seen repercussions publicly again does no mean they have not happened. Your insistence that because someone has a job means there are no repercussions is as of yet unproven.

    Also, just because there have not yet been punishments does not mean their won't be and failure to enforce rules does not mean the rules do not exist.

    5. On many occasions you have stated that you are conservative, you are not.

    6. I have never taken issue with you being a registered Republican, only that you claim one thing and demonstrate another.

    7. As previously stated, arguing to the majority does not make something factual. Your stated positions and arguments demonstrate that you are a liberal, it's sad that you can't accept who and what you are.

    8, 9, 10. Stating I am wrong does not make me wrong. Again stating facts not in evidence.

    You have stated a few minor facts and then made egregious leaps of so fancy that you call logic in an attempt to support your assertions.

    Just stop.
    I asked for neither your Opinion,
    your Acceptance
    nor your Permission.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenlaar View Post
    I think that the words of the President from all the way back in January should guide the actions of his followers...

    "Peaceful protests are a hallmark of our democracy. Even if I don't always agree, I recognize the rights of people to express their views."
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...74199036542980

    Strange how that message seems to have changed.
    How many Conservatives have you seen rioting in the streets? Nothing changed other than fans and others got fed up with entitled brats biting the hand that feeds them.
    I asked for neither your Opinion,
    your Acceptance
    nor your Permission.

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