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Thread: Considering returning. Been a long time.

  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnix View Post
    Yes, that is the strategy of nearly every game studio ever. Sitting on one game and reinvesting all your money back into just that one game until the end of time is not the best strategy if you want to make $$.[/COLOR]
    This is like a classic example of a strawman. If you don't want someone to call out your strawman bullshit then stop making strawman arguments. Who said they should invest ALL of the money they make back into GS?

    Asking for some full time coders is asking them to invest ALL of their money back into GS? GS has personally funded the development of DR and a half dozen other failed text based games. It funded that graphical engine thingie that made Whately a lot of money. It also funded about 3 failed mobile games and a failed Facebook game. It also funded the failed Dragons of Elanthia. But asking for just ONE full time coder for GS so we can move Savants from "Never going to happen" to "Maybe soon" is asking too much of Simu?

    Get the fuck out of here.
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  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnix View Post
    No you said you cant stand how they are using money to fund new projects meanwhile the game doesnt even have a full-time coder.
    EXACTLY! Is that such a horrible thing to ask for? One measly fucking full time dedicated coder after all these decades?
    @Gelston notice me, senpai!

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tgo01 View Post
    This is like a classic example of a strawman. If you don't want someone to call out your strawman bullshit then stop making strawman arguments. Who said they should invest ALL of the money they make back into GS?

    Asking for some full time coders is asking them to invest ALL of their money back into GS? GS has personally funded the development of DR and a half dozen other failed text based games. It funded that graphical engine thingie that made Whately a lot of money. It also funded about 3 failed mobile games and a failed Facebook game. It also funded the failed Dragons of Elanthia. But asking for just ONE full time coder for GS so we can move Savants from "Never going to happen" to "Maybe soon" is asking too much of Simu?

    Get the fuck out of here.
    Check and mate right here. Hard to argue with this.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tgo01 View Post
    This is like a classic example of a strawman. If you don't want someone to call out your strawman bullshit then stop making strawman arguments. Who said they should invest ALL of the money they make back into GS?

    Asking for some full time coders is asking them to invest ALL of their money back into GS? GS has personally funded the development of DR and a half dozen other failed text based games. It funded that graphical engine thingie that made Whately a lot of money. It also funded about 3 failed mobile games and a failed Facebook game. It also funded the failed Dragons of Elanthia. But asking for just ONE full time coder for GS so we can move Savants from "Never going to happen" to "Maybe soon" is asking too much of Simu?
    Get the fuck out of here.
    You claiming that I dont think GS needs a coder would be a straw man argument as well, would it not? I mean we can go on and on if you want to call out every straw man argument in this place.

    My statement from the beginning was that they are making improvements to the game, and also have improved monetization on the game as well. Do we have savants as you mentioned? No, and i dont really care about that anyways. I care the game keeps moving forward with solid improvements which it has. Something you also agreed with me on. 2017 is still young, i think its not fair to judge just yet.

    Would it be nice to have more development time for GS? Sure it would, but again the company's strategy has been to reinvest in other projects. Something I dont blame them for. I'm happy we are still getting fairly regular updates. Even if most of them are low hanging fruit.

    But your attitude from the beginning was that they are not doing very much at all. And that they have a huge team and investment in other projects. I dont disagree with you about the second part, and the paid GS team is small thats obvious. But the game is what almost 30 years old. A full time coder would be nice, but I also dont blame them for using part-timers, volunteers and whatever other methods they use. As long as they are getting improvements done.

    Are you that excited about savants anyways? Just the name of the class already makes me think of Rainman, and idiot savants.
    Last edited by nocturnix; 09-05-2017 at 06:47 PM.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnix View Post
    You claiming that I dont think GS needs a coder would be a straw man argument as well, would it not? I mean we can go on and on if you want to call out every straw man argument in this place.
    If you agree with me then why are you disagreeing with me? Cause I have never made the argument that Simutronics should invest all of their money back into GS or that they don't invest any money or time into GS.

    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnix View Post
    Sure it would, but again the company's strategy has been to reinvest in other projects.
    Other projects which have thus far all failed. Except that graphical engine thingie which technically was a failed project because it was supposed to be an actual graphical game that never came out. They instead just sold the engine. And I'm just assuming it actually made money, for all I know it was a net loss too.

    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnix View Post
    But your attitude from the beginning was that they are not doing very much at all.
    For how much money they are making they really aren't. I'm not saying this to put down the GMs themselves because I realize they don't do this for a living and they are now apparently being incentivized to work on more and more microtransactions/paid events. I'm laying this blame at Simu's feet. This isn't something that just sprung up overnight, people have been making these same demands for decades now and Simu's response has pretty much always been the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnix View Post
    Are you that excited about savants anyways?
    No, it's just funny that the class has been in the character creation screen for literally over a decade now and Estild himself said we will never see Savants. It's just yet another item in a long list of promised features that never came to be because they don't have the resources to make this shit a reality, but they somehow muster up the resources to make microtransaction after microtransaction and paid event after paid event, and the money can't be used to hire more GMs or even a full time paid coder to work on this extremely long backlog.

    What I am "excited" about is more guilds being finished, but guess what? Estild said we would probably see Savants before we see another guild in this game, and he already said don't hold your breath on ever seeing savants.
    Last edited by Tgo01; 09-05-2017 at 06:54 PM.
    @Gelston notice me, senpai!

  6. #56

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    It really is pretty telling that they haven't even bothered to remove "Savants coming soon!" from character creation after they decided that they weren't actually coming at all.

    Guess they haven't had a player volunteer to do that for free yet.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnix View Post
    The company has employees, even if it is few. you still have to consider overhead, billing, support, and other paid positions. Even if they manage to get alot of volunteer work, that does not mean the company has no costs. I also cant imagine there are 0 paid employees working on GS4, if that is what you are implying.
    Overhead, billing, support, etc are not a development team that you were saying money goes to. Of course a business has costs. No one is arguing that. I also never said there were zero employees working on Gemstone. What I said, quite clearly, in reference to, "the $$ goes to paying for a developer team and game designers to improve the game" was that the amount of people this applies to is very few. Sure, they probably have one, maybe two people that are actually paid and work on Gemstone development. Hell, maybe this 'development team' is as large as three people. I dunno. Regardless, the vast majority of the work they have done for them is via volunteers.

    Most of the money they make from Gemstone does not go back into Gemstone. This is just the reality of the situation. A small portion of it does, sure. Like I said, there are likely a handful (2-3) of people that are paid developers for the product. With the money they make, they could do a lot more. Savants could be a thing (other than a really long running joke), spell lists could be filled out on the higher end, and a whole myriad of other things could be done if they actually paid a legit team of devs to work on the product.

    As we all know, they won't do that. The structure of the company itself is why they end up with so many half-finished or pipe-dream projects that never get off the ground. It's hard to force volunteers to do quality work on projects the individual doesn't care about. Hell, look at the stupid policy they have on ownership of various items and their scripts. How many things are out there that no current GM can even work with because they don't own or understand the code to do something like unlock another tier of scripts or make other changes to those items?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tgo01 View Post
    Oh yeah, I also found the laughable list of expenses Simu has to justify their ever increasing number of paid events and microtransactions:
    They have company vehicles? What the fuck?

    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnix View Post
    How is money not going into GS? I love how you tend to ignore what is actually happening (like regular development updates nearly every month), and just say they dont invest any time or money in the game. You tend to ignore what is actually happening in front of you. Not to mention all the work they do on pay events, which yes generates revenue, but also generates fun minigames, storylines, and items for the playerbase. Or does that not count? Does updating spells, game mechanics, crit weighting, etc. also not count? Because you dont like the specific changes? Or because you think it was so easy a kid could have coded it? You make it sound as if they are letting the game stagnate and then dumping all the money into new projects. While they are investing heavily in new projects, the game is improving alot. There have been alot of great updates since I came back about 4 months ago.
    Those things are mostly done by volunteers. Also known as developers that are not getting paid.

    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnix View Post
    This was definately not my intention, but I cant stand by when people endlessly bash Simu claiming they do nothing for improving the game. If you go back to my post, thats exactly the oposite of what I was saying. IMO they are managing the game well as of late, even if they are earning more money.
    We weren't bashing Simu. We were simply laughing at the notion you have that they actually put a half-respectable amount of money they make into a development team for the game. What you believe simply is not true. It's a statement of fact, not bashing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duskruin View Post
    Also, the only way they could re-invest back into Gemstone is if they pay their GMs more money. This is actually what I'm super curious about, exactly how much money do GMs get per hour of work? and are they getting a cut from all these micro-transactions?

    From how the recent Smithy roll out was handled I don't even think Wyrom is the main coder for GS, there's someone much more adept at the Gemstone language than him who does the heavy legwork (again purely speculation but some evidence points to this.)
    I think it's more that they could use additional developers (those who treat it as a job and not a hobby; employee vs volunteer, if you will) than those they do have needing a raise. Giving the few more money isn't going to get more work done.

    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnix View Post
    Are you that excited about savants anyways? Just the name of the class already makes me think of Rainman, and idiot savants.
    It's not just about savants. It's been so damn long now that I can't quite say this for sure, but didn't they announce the three new classes around the time they were moving into GSIV? Do you comprehend the amount of time it took them to make Paladins and then Monks? We're, what, about 13 years later and only two of those three 'announced' professions have made it to the game with the third not even being considered anymore? Stop and think about that for a few minutes. It's absolutely horrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenlaar View Post
    It really is pretty telling that they haven't even bothered to remove "Savants coming soon!" from character creation after they decided that they weren't actually coming at all.

    Guess they haven't had a player volunteer to do that for free yet.
    It's a ton of work to edit a website. It used to really annoy the shit out of me when people tried to say, through little fault of their own I guess, that the disease spell was affected by necromancy lore. In an effort to actually get info in before the web editing went dormant for several years, someone mentioned in the spell descriptions that the lore would affect the spell before anyone even had ideas to implement, let alone actually start the code. There has never been a single moment that necro lore affected Disease.
    Last edited by subzero; 09-05-2017 at 09:56 PM.
    Question for the pro-transgender, gender fluid, anyone can be whatever they want to be, people out there: Should a male be granted a combat license to enter a MMA fight to pummel females because he 'identifies' as a woman?

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnix View Post
    Sounds to me like you dont know how many paid employees they have.

    And as for reinvesting in other games, welcome to game studios. You use some of the revenue generated to keep your current titles running and earning money, with some improvements here and there and the rest goes into new projects. On a related note - I worked at two different "candy crush"-style mobile game studios. Trying to create a mobile game mega-hit like that is pretty naive and the odds are ridiculously stacked against you. Any company I see entering the mobile game market expecting that kind of success, I automatically consider them naive and out of their league. King had been making similar highly addictive browser-based puzzle games before mobile games even existed so the transition to mobile + their existing experience in the genre was perfect. Supercell (clash of clans) were making mobile games and failing since the Nokia "worm" days via Digital Chocolate so had already seen alot of failures and finally got it right with hayday/clash. Not to mention both companies got in VERY early. If you want to walz into the mobile game sphere now, be prepared to spend 5-10m on marketing alone, also considering a good mobile game takes 1-2 years dev time minimum. But yah, I dont think it is wise for them to re-invest in mobile games, unless it is what they know. But I am not familiar with their team and where their experience lies. I would consider a GS4 type mobile game interesting however.
    You might want to check out the company that bought Simu then. Stillfront's entire model is based on acquiring old bullshit games (like GS) that have a loyal player base with the intent of using revenue from those games to fund what they hope would be the next Candy Crush.

    Whatley was no different. I just think he may have finally realized after Dragons of Elanthia was a massive failure that his ideas today suck fat greasy balls, and I guess finally accepting that he's not gonna make a AAA title for Gemstone GM pay.

    But the Stillfront model just reinforces what people are saying. Simu puts very little back into GS, and most of what they do put back into it is for shit like giving bonuses to GMs who code microtransaction events. Normal events too, but there's no such thing as a normal event anymore. It's all a big truck stop now.
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  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnix View Post
    This was definately not my intention, but I cant stand by when people endlessly bash Simu claiming they do nothing for improving the game. If you go back to my post, thats exactly the oposite of what I was saying. IMO they are managing the game well as of late, even if they are earning more money.
    Now just imagine what it would be like if they actually had even one full time coder. Them trying to say they couldn't afford even one full time coder is total bullshit and everyone knows it.
    www.twitch.tv/3piecesofbread
    Quote Originally Posted by time4fun
    No, actually, Back is not an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Back
    I am a retard. I'm disabled. I'm poor. I'm black. I'm gay. I'm transgender. I'm a woman.

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  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nocturnix View Post
    I have been playing on and off the past 10 or so years. I have to say right now it feels like server population and events are at an all time high for that period. I am having a blast with the game and can definately reccommend returning. GM team including the head GM Wyrom are working hard improving the game constantly. They have figured out how to extract more $$ from the playerbase using things like microtransactions and charging for events, but it is not absolutely necessary if you just want to play. If you want uber items and gear then you will likely start sinking some money into the game. People complain alot about this, but remember, the $$ goes to paying for a developer team and game designers to improve the game. So I have no complaints really. As for Sorcerers, alot has changed. There are some quality of life changes like all the extra benefits you get from training in mana controls (check the MANA verb), which I really love like multicast and mana spellup. Mana pulse is good for events like duskruin arena and reim.

    As for encumberance, i dont know if they changed anything there. You should definately have locks on your containers and Phase them, however to reduce your weight. Unload everything you can. I am also bad about this on my Bard, he carries too much junk all the time, and I really have to force myself to unload stuff into lockers to keep at 0 encumberance. Post your training if you decide to come back, you will have a fixskill and we can help make sure you are setup for CM defense. I dont die to CMs that often on my 56 Wizard and my 59 pure bard. But i try to keep their encumberance to a minimum since I was dying alot to CMs when encumbered.

    If you want to pick up boxes, you can do so, just try to start with 0 encumberance and unload your boxes at the Town Smith (automated locksmith, dont tell rogues you use it) every time you come back form a hunt to get back to 0 encumberance for your next hunt.

    Anyways feel free to ask questions, I have a 50 sorc too, although I have stopped playing him as of late unfortunately.
    Thank you, appreciate the response. I'm not worried about silvers or uber gear, never been my priority, my wife's characters made a boatload and I'm set on that front.

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