Russia Investigation Heating Up

[Methais]

TR;DR

This is correct.

Also:

Attachment 9279

This is correct.

And:

Attachment 9280

This is correct.

[time4fun]

No. Try again. Respond to the question I asked or shut the fuck up. You're not fooling anyone.



A strong case could be made for the people who have been investigating for the past two years. If there's such a smoking gun, like you claimed when you said THIS:



It should be a no brainer. Super easy, right? He's already in jail? OVERWHELMING!

I absolutely answered your question:

Which Trump administration policies specifically do you feel were dictated by Russia? There's very clearly a Russian agent at the helm, right?

I gave you 5 different examples of Trump pushing for things that were actively on Putin's top 5 list of priorities that also happened to damage the US. You should try engaging with the information- that's what a political discussion is for.

And you have completely disregarded the two core questions in my post:

1) WHO would put Trump in jail? The people investigating him are bound by DoJ guidelines which state that a sitting US President cannot be prosecuted for violations in Federal criminal law. They *cannot* put him in jail. But they *can* issue sealed indictments. And they may very well have. But ultimately, no one would even try to put the top guy in the investigation in jail until the investigation is finished and the full case is prepared. Your "he would be in jail if there were a lot of evidence against him" point is not only factually incorrect, it's just hollow.

2) You still have not provided a single alternative explanation for this:

Trump was lying about a $300m Moscow real estate deal that was going on during the campaign, and that deal included a $50m bribe to Putin personally while Russia was actively working to get Trump elected (which Trump was trying to hide from the American people), and Trump was actively working to give Putin all of his major foreign policy objectives.

Please explain to the class how all of these things are totally unrelated to each other, and how this doesn't look exactly like what collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia would look like

In fact, none of you have. The sheer lengths you are going to in order to avoid having to actually answer a VERY simple question are astounding, albeit not surprising. There is no reasonable alternative explanation for the facts above. You know it as well as I.

And THAT is the reason why Trump is still in office. It's people like you who have been gorging on a diet of conservative misinformation and who refuse to actually deal with the facts of the situation. You've hamstrung your Representatives, and they're forced to play cover for someone they know is a criminal and a traitor in order to keep their jobs.

Good work.

[Stumplicker]

And THAT is the reason why Trump is still in office. It's people like you who have been gorging on a diet of conservative misinformation and who refuse to actually deal with the facts of the situation. You've hamstrung your Representatives, and they're forced to play cover for someone they know is a criminal and a traitor in order to keep their jobs.

No. The reason Trump is still in office, despite being a huge asshole that continually costs me money, is because the smoking gun you keep claiming IS RIGHT THERE JUST OPEN YOUR EYES, does not exist. The sky has not fallen. There are no Russian sleeper agents running the country.

You are exactly as bad as the people who frothed at the mouth for 8 years demanding Obama's birth certificate.

Obama did not send his Kenyan stormtroopers into every home to take all the guns. Trump has not rounded up all the immigrants into gas chambers or sold the country to the Ruskies.

It's just a pendulum swinging one way and then the other so we can identify the loonies on both ends of the political spectrum (that's you, if you weren't sure). You will not be engaged in political discussion because you are incapable of it. Nobody even looks at you as a person. You're just a bot spouting political diarrhea all over the internet.

[Methais]

I absolutely answered your question:


I gave you 5 different examples of Trump pushing for things that were actively on Putin's top 5 list of priorities that also happened to damage the US. You should try engaging with the information- that's what a political discussion is for.

And you have completely disregarded the two core questions in my post:

1) WHO would put Trump in jail? The people investigating him are bound by DoJ guidelines which state that a sitting US President cannot be prosecuted for violations in Federal criminal law. They *cannot* put him in jail. But they *can* issue sealed indictments. And they may very well have. But ultimately, no one would even try to put the top guy in the investigation in jail until the investigation is finished and the full case is prepared. Your "he would be in jail if there were a lot of evidence against him" point is not only factually incorrect, it's just hollow.

2) You still have not provided a single alternative explanation for this:



In fact, none of you have. The sheer lengths you are going to in order to avoid having to actually answer a VERY simple question are astounding, albeit not surprising. There is no reasonable alternative explanation for the facts above. You know it as well as I.

And THAT is the reason why Trump is still in office. It's people like you who have been gorging on a diet of conservative misinformation and who refuse to actually deal with the facts of the situation. You've hamstrung your Representatives, and they're forced to play cover for someone they know is a criminal and a traitor in order to keep their jobs.

Good work.

Damn you're stupid.

Also TD;DR

[Parkbandit]

So- who exactly would throw Trump in jail? Congress? Wait they can't do that. The Judiciary? Oh wait, they can't do that either without an indictment. The Executive? Oh- the President is in charge of the Executive branch. (Hence why Impeachment was created) And the investigations are ongoing. There are a million reasons why Trump isn't in jail right now that have nothing to do with the preponderance of evidence out there.

I am happy to play along in your thought exercise, as long as you're willing to play along in mine.

Yours:

There are several foreign policy goals that Russia has:
1) The Easing of US Sanctions
2) The destruction- or debilitation- of NATO
3) A poorly armed Ukraine
4) The withdrawal of Western forces in Syria
5) Cover for their election interference

Trump has worked to achieve each of these goals.
1) He immediately tried to roll back Sanctions levied against Russia for election meddling when he got into office. There is absolutely no explanation for why this was done nor why it was done in secret. This is the reason why Congress overwhelmingly passed the Russian sanctions bill. Since then, the administration has started rolling back sanctions in other ways while fighting off new sanctions as best he can.

2) Trump has repeatedly attacked NATO- to the point where he was privately discussing destroying the NATO alliance. The NATO alliance was established to directly support the West against Russia- it overwhelmingly benefits the US and its destruction hurts our allies and only benefits Russia.

3) During the RNC Convention- the Trump campaign had a curious lack of interest in anything policy-related- save for one exception: watering down the language about arming the Ukraine. It's the one thing his campaign fought for, and according to an RNC delegate- Trump directed his staff to get that language watered down. The ONLY person who benefited from that policy change was Vladimir Putin.

4) Trump's announcement that he would withdraw from Syria- despite objections from all of his staff (prompting Mattis to resign, by the way) and our allies benefited Russia immensely and damaged relations between the US and critical allies while allowing Russia to dominate the region.

5) Trump has repeatedly denied that Russia meddled in our elections- both during the campaign and while in office. He famously took Vladimir Putin's word that Russia didn't meddle over the word of our own Intelligence community. In doing so, he convinced A LOT of Americans that there was no interference, and that Russia had nothing to do with it. He not only gave Russia a pass, but he tried to roll back sanctions levied for the meddling (see above), AND he basically gave Putin an invitation to keep doing it. This was clearly to the detriment of the US and only benefited Putin. Keep in mind- Trump knew full well that Russia was interfering in the election to help him- he was told this by a cut out for the Russian government.


Now, my turn:

Trump was lying about a $300m Moscow real estate deal that was going on during the campaign, and that deal included a $50m bribe to Putin personally while Russia was actively working to get Trump elected (which Trump was trying to hide from the American people), and Trump was actively working to give Putin all of his major foreign policy objectives.

Please explain to the class how all of these things are totally unrelated to each other, and how this doesn't look exactly like what collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia would look like


I'll wait.

Jesus.....

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people of low ability have illusory superiority and mistakenly assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is. The cognitive bias of illusory superiority comes from the inability of low-ability people to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their competence or incompetence

[time4fun]

No. The reason Trump is still in office, despite being a huge asshole that continually costs me money, is because the smoking gun you keep claiming IS RIGHT THERE JUST OPEN YOUR EYES, does not exist. The sky has not fallen. There are no Russian sleeper agents running the country.

You are exactly as bad as the people who frothed at the mouth for 8 years demanding Obama's birth certificate.

Obama did not send his Kenyan stormtroopers into every home to take all the guns. Trump has not rounded up all the immigrants into gas chambers or sold the country to the Ruskies.

It's just a pendulum swinging one way and then the other so we can identify the loonies on both ends of the political spectrum (that's you, if you weren't sure). You will not be engaged in political discussion because you are incapable of it. Nobody even looks at you as a person. You're just a bot spouting political diarrhea all over the internet.

Wow. You utterly refuse to engage with the facts. You accused me of not having answered your question- though I answered it quite directly.

You were asked to answer my question in return, and despite being asked several times you can't even acknowledge the information.

I will ask you again:

Trump was lying about a $300m Moscow real estate deal that was going on during the campaign, and that deal included a $50m bribe to Putin personally while Russia was actively working to get Trump elected (which Trump was trying to hide from the American people), and Trump was actively working to give Putin all of his major foreign policy objectives.

Please explain to the class how all of these things are totally unrelated to each other, and how this doesn't look exactly like what collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia would look like


If you cannot come up with an answer to that question- if you can't even bring yourself to consider a question that is this critical to our sovereignty as a nation...then you're literally pulling wool over your own eyes. It's a tacit admission that you know that Trump made a deal with Putin.

You're selling our country out for a wall. You want to find some loonies? Go find a mirror.

[Parkbandit]

Wow. You utterly refuse to engage with the facts. You accused me of not having answered your question- though I answered it quite directly.

You were asked to answer my question in return, and despite being asked several times you can't even acknowledge the information.

I will ask you again:

Trump was lying about a $300m Moscow real estate deal that was going on during the campaign, and that deal included a $50m bribe to Putin personally while Russia was actively working to get Trump elected (which Trump was trying to hide from the American people), and Trump was actively working to give Putin all of his major foreign policy objectives.

Please explain to the class how all of these things are totally unrelated to each other, and how this doesn't look exactly like what collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia would look like


If you cannot come up with an answer to that question- if you can't even bring yourself to consider a question that is this critical to our sovereignty as a nation...then you're literally pulling wool over your own eyes. It's a tacit admission that you know that Trump made a deal with Putin.

You're selling our country out for a wall. You want to find some loonies? Go find a mirror.

.

In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people of low ability have illusory superiority and mistakenly assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is. The cognitive bias of illusory superiority comes from the inability of low-ability people to recognize their lack of ability. Without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their competence or incompetence

[Methais]

Wow. You utterly refuse to engage with the facts. You accused me of not having answered your question- though I answered it quite directly.

You were asked to answer my question in return, and despite being asked several times you can't even acknowledge the information.

I will ask you again:

Trump was lying about a $300m Moscow real estate deal that was going on during the campaign, and that deal included a $50m bribe to Putin personally while Russia was actively working to get Trump elected (which Trump was trying to hide from the American people), and Trump was actively working to give Putin all of his major foreign policy objectives.

Please explain to the class how all of these things are totally unrelated to each other, and how this doesn't look exactly like what collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia would look like


If you cannot come up with an answer to that question- if you can't even bring yourself to consider a question that is this critical to our sovereignty as a nation...then you're literally pulling wool over your own eyes. It's a tacit admission that you know that Trump made a deal with Putin.

You're selling our country out for a wall. You want to find some loonies? Go find a mirror.

That's fantastic and all but when you're done sniffing your own farts could you explain why Mueller still doesn't have shit? Should be a slam dunk open and shut case if we're basing it on your dramatics.

[time4fun]

Vish, it ain't happening. I'm a Anti-Trump, Bernie Socialist but Mueller ain't got a dime on him. I think privately he suspects there is some connection (as per the metric ton of shit that's all around him as you described) but the FSB/Putin did some serious work to draw a circle of protection around their prized race horse and it's just not enough that anyone can deduce it all.

This isn't the movies, even with moron street criminals they all have a 40% chance baseline of "getting away with it" and that's with no pre-planning or anything. You've got the polar opposite here with the entire intelligence apparatus of a former superpower going gangbusters for their piece de resistance of getting one of their agents into the White House.

Sorry Vish, best we can hope for is to vote in 2020.

Oh Mueller has plenty- on obstruction alone.

But here's the situation- in the movies there's always some piece of paper or email somewhere that says "Dear horrible criminal person, I hereby promise to help you commit crimes in exchange for money". The thick-headed conservative gremlins here have decided that unless they see a piece of paper with Putin's signature, Trump's signature, and the phrase "I will collude with you"- Trump is innocent.

In reality- there are lots of ways to prove these things that don't rely on the family turning on each other to testify or the kind of note a 6th grader would leave if they were committing a crime. The flow of money, the contact with Russian military intelligence, the lies, the willingness to accept the help of an enemy nation, etc. And Mueller's team has some of the best prosecutors in the country. Having said that- Mueller probably can't indict Trump (or, at least, prosecute). Waiting for a Federal criminal indictment as proof that Mueller has enough on Trump is pointless. It's absence doesn't denote anything, either way.

Having said that, Mueller DOES have quite a bit on Trump, and we know that because there's quite a bit on this in the public domain. What Trump is currently benefiting from is the consequence of the long, slow burn of this all. There's so much damming evidence that it's A) hard to keep track of and B) easy to become desensitized to.

We already know the campaign readily took meetings with the Russian government to get campaign aid, and that they repeatedly lied about it.
We already know that Trump had a major business deal which literally included a $50m bribe to Putin in it, and that he lied about it.
We already know Trump has repeatedly defended Putin against allegations of election meddling despite having been told by the Russian government that they were, in fact, meddling to help him get elected.
We already know that Trump has worked to give Putin all of his major foreign policy priorities, and that Trump and Putin had several secret meetings while Trump was in office where no staff- aside from a translator- were allowed in (which by the way- does NOT happen. Ever.) And he lied about it.
We already know Trump's campaign manager- who is infamous for helping Russia install a puppet President in Ukraine- volunteered to work on the campaign for free (as a way of paying back a debt to a Russian Oligarch who was HEAVILY involved in the election interference work), and that he was in contact with Russian military Intelligence the whole time. Oh, and that he lied about it.
And we already know that Trump was back-channeling with Wiki Leaks to get updates on email drops before anyone else had them, and he lied about it.

You don't think they have a lot on Trump? Really? You and I both know I could have gone on with another 100 points- all of which lead to one simple conclusion: The Trump campaign coordinated with Russia to throw our election.

Now imagine what's *not* in the public domain and add it to this.

[Wrathbringer]

Oh Mueller has plenty- on obstruction alone.

But here's the situation- in the movies there's always some piece of paper or email somewhere that says "Dear horrible criminal person, I hereby promise to help you commit crimes in exchange for money". The thick-headed conservative gremlins here have decided that unless they see a piece of paper with Putin's signature, Trump's signature, and the phrase "I will collude with you"- Trump is innocent.

In reality- there are lots of ways to prove these things that don't rely on the family turning on each other to testify or the kind of note a 6th grader would leave if they were committing a crime. The flow of money, the contact with Russian military intelligence, the lies, the willingness to accept the help of an enemy nation, etc. And Mueller's team has some of the best prosecutors in the country. Having said that- Mueller probably can't indict Trump (or, at least, prosecute). Waiting for a Federal criminal indictment as proof that Mueller has enough on Trump is pointless. It's absence doesn't denote anything, either way.

Having said that, Mueller DOES have quite a bit on Trump, and we know that because there's quite a bit on this in the public domain. What Trump is currently benefiting from is the consequence of the long, slow burn of this all. There's so much damming evidence that it's A) hard to keep track of and B) easy to become desensitized to.

We already know the campaign readily took meetings with the Russian government to get campaign aid, and that they repeatedly lied about it.
We already know that Trump had a major business deal which literally included a $50m bribe to Putin in it, and that he lied about it.
We already know Trump has repeatedly defended Putin against allegations of election meddling despite having been told by the Russian government that they were, in fact, meddling to help him get elected.
We already know that Trump has worked to give Putin all of his major foreign policy priorities, and that Trump and Putin had several secret meetings while Trump was in office where no staff- aside from a translator- were allowed in (which by the way- does NOT happen. Ever.) And he lied about it.
We already know Trump's campaign manager- who is infamous for helping Russia install a puppet President in Ukraine- volunteered to work on the campaign for free (as a way of paying back a debt to a Russian Oligarch who was HEAVILY involved in the election interference work), and that he was in contact with Russian military Intelligence the whole time. Oh, and that he lied about it.
And we already know that Trump was back-channeling with Wiki Leaks to get updates on email drops before anyone else had them, and he lied about it.

You don't think they have a lot on Trump? Really? You and I both know I could have gone on with another 100 points- all of which lead to one simple conclusion: The Trump campaign coordinated with Russia to throw our election.

Now imagine what's *not* in the public domain and add it to this.

TR;DR. Quoted for when Trump serves out his term and runs again in 2020. You're just delusional and butthurt.