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No comment on the rest of the content of what you've been arguing, but I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to mention that federally and in many states, smoking a joint is exactly as illegal as being an undocumented immigrant, but no one seems terribly concerned about enforcement of punishment for pot smokers.Quote:
Originally Posted by drauz
Step father.Quote:
Originally Posted by drauz
Tell me- is the appropriate punishment for that to split my family apart and send a man back to a country he's never known?
You have to stop for a second and pull yourself back into the situation families like mine are in today. Even if we had some magic time machine to go back and change things, I'm not going to buy that my family should never have existed, because that's just an insanely low thing to say to someone. It's not the moral high ground- it's not. "Your family should never have been a family" can never be the moral high ground. And no one who believes something like that is in an appropriate space. The presence or absence of an arbitrary piece of paper does not make moral the decision to treat human beings like they are of no consequence.
You're skirting the actual issue. You're punishing the wrong people. There is no time machine.
Find a moral approach that preserves human dignity. Or, if not, acknowledge that you are behaving in a way that robs good human beings of that dignity.
Just don't expect horrible things to happen to people and pat yourself on the back while telling yourself that you're moral and they're bad people. That's what immoral people do.
And people aren't as concerned about jaywalking as hitting someone with a car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumplicker
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Originally Posted by time4fun
You mentioned your mother in the post I quoted so I used her. Whoever did it is at fault, it doesn't matter to me (but it should to you) who did it. I'm not opposed to allowing people, who are doing everything right except for having citizenship/papers, a path to citizenship.
You don't get to try to take the moral high ground either though, just because you are trying to defend your family. You've probably known your brother was illegal for years and are just now getting around to trying make him legal because someone is actually going to enforce the law. From your past posts it doesn't seem like any real effort was put into it if any.
Sorry, but this is the real world. Bad things can happen to good people. It sucks and these are the tough positions that allowing undocumented people for decades has caused. To fix the immigration problem I fear that a lot of tough decisions are going to have to be made.
So, what is your solution?
First- don't be the kind of person who would make up a story like "I bet you stood around and never helped the brother you love, and also I think you're a bad person for caring now". It's an illogical statement intended to make you feel better by demonizing someone else. It's petty and cruel and baseless and beneath even the lowest threshold of human decency.Quote:
Originally Posted by drauz
And second, I will leave you with this: perhaps the moment when you fell most short was witnessing the fear and pain of a family (who really represents millions of families) that is threatened with something that would likely be your worst nightmare and immediately looking to find fault in them. Maybe after voting in a manner that helped put them there, you had better options to choose from.
Your retorts about doing the legal and ethical thing would have held much more weight if you had started from a more human space. If you see people living in fear, and you see families being torn apart, and if you did something to help make that happen- you really have to stop and ask yourself what it means if your initial reaction is indifference, condemnation, or irritation at having to hear about it.
Again, be human. Be better.
On a slightly different note, though still on the note of the point of this thread - Did anyone predict that Maine would have legalized marijuana by a margin of 0.003%? 378,288 to 375,668?
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Originally Posted by time4fun
That was my starting point, in case your forgot.Quote:
Originally Posted by drauz
I feel like I started within a very human space. I even sent you rep regarding what other people were saying to you about your brother. I didn't send a PM because I didn't need to be acknowledged for doing something decent. No response was necessary.
And this was my following post.
I guess i didn't make myself clear. I'm not saying you didn't help your brother because you didn't love him, I was implying that you felt it wasn't needed at the time because nothing was being done about immigration.Quote:
Originally Posted by drauz
True. It was at least 2-3 posts before you called my family criminals and said we deserved what was happening to us because my brother was using the health insurance that he was paying for in payroll taxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by drauz
I'll grant you that over the years many people didn't bother waiting that long.
I think you are reading into things again, quote me the post cause I can't seem to find it. To be fair, your family are technically criminals. MY payroll tax would barely cover health insurance and you've said he doesn't make much. I don't know if you meant compared to you or regular people like me.Quote:
Originally Posted by time4fun
I don't think anyone deserves to have their family torn apart, but you seem to be acting like your family has done everything right and the government is just trying to step in and rip your family apart for no reason. I just said what my suggestion is, so again what it yours?
Aaron Burr and Alexander HamiltonQuote:
Originally Posted by Fallen