Climate Change Report

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Originally Posted by Tgo01

I've already stated what my point is. I think Moore made a lot of sense in that video. The environmental movement has been hijacked by political groups for political purposes and that environmentalists have to be realistic in their goals. You can't say all logging companies are bad because they cut down trees; that's stupid. Likewise you can't say all energy companies are bad because they pollute our planet.

He even said in the video that what we should be doing is finding solutions that minimize the impact on the environment. We shouldn't be declaring all corporations as bad and evil.

And yet throughout this whole bit all you've said is "shill!"

I think I should be asking you this question; what is your point cwolff? What are you trying to say? You have yet to clearly state what your point is about Moore being a shill for energy companies. Why is working with an energy company bad? You haven't expressly stated as much but you've insinuated the hell out of it.

The only one who has provided no clear, concise argument in the past dozen or so pages is you. Provide one. Now.

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He's a PR representative for energy companies. You're asking for A. people to take his spin seriously and B. the rough equivalent of you and Parkbandit spontaneously deciding to love and believe in Al Gore.

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Originally Posted by Warriorbird

He's a PR representative for energy companies. You're asking for A. people to take his spin seriously

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We've already covered this fallacy.

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Originally Posted by Warriorbird

B. the rough equivalent of you and Parkbandit spontaneously deciding to love and believe in Al Gore.

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I didn't say you had to love this Moore guy.

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Originally Posted by Tgo01

I've already stated what my point is. I think Moore made a lot of sense in that video. The environmental movement has been hijacked by political groups for political purposes and that environmentalists have to be realistic in their goals. You can't say all logging companies are bad because they cut down trees; that's stupid. Likewise you can't say all energy companies are bad because they pollute our planet.

He even said in the video that what we should be doing is finding solutions that minimize the impact on the environment. We shouldn't be declaring all corporations as bad and evil.

And yet throughout this whole bit all you've said is "shill!"

I think I should be asking you this question; what is your point cwolff? What are you trying to say? You have yet to clearly state what your point is about Moore being a shill for energy companies. Why is working with an energy company bad? You haven't expressly stated as much but you've insinuated the hell out of it.

The only one who has provided no clear, concise argument in the past dozen or so pages is you. Provide one. Now.

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Look at the bolded items. I didn't say this stuff. You're arguing with someone who didn't say what you think they said and you never stopped to ask what they mean. Just assumed you knew and off you went.

Find for me where Moore or Penn and Teller say that his business is to be a spokesperson for the industries that the ACC movement is railing against. They don't as far as I can see. They do say he's an ecologist and that he's a founder of greenpeace but make no mention that his source of income is in communications for the exact people the environmentalists are protesting. It's the definition of shilling. What's so hard to accept about that?

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Originally Posted by Tgo01

We've already covered this fallacy.

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The man is paid, as point of fact, to promote the views of industry. That makes him a shill by Jarvan's definition.He is functioning as a PR rep. You asked that cwolff "Listen to his views." The only one that is being fallacious is you, by acting in bad faith.

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Originally Posted by Warriorbird

You just did what you complained about other people doing. I'm not sure this line is going to be too successful.

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I've had my fill of irony today.

Full.

Please save some for tomorrow when I'm bored.

Can anyone explain to me exactly how having a PH D in Mathematics makes you a climatologist? Maybe I am just stupid.. but.. isn't climatology a different field then mathematics? Ok.. they are both "Sciences". But that's like saying that someone that PH. D in Dentistry could be a heart Surgeon. I mean.. they are both in the medical field.

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"Climatology (from Greek κλίμα, klima, "place, zone"; and -λογία, -logia) is the study of climate, scientifically defined as weather conditions averaged over a period of time.[1] This modern field of study is regarded as a branch of the atmospheric sciences and a subfield of physical geography, which is one of the Earth sciences. Climatology now includes aspects of oceanography and biogeochemistry. "

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Does this mean that if Bob were to "study the climate" he could be a climatologist? hell, I guess I technically could.

I guess anyone could really. It seems you don't NEED a degree in a related field. I am sure climate studies need math people... but... does that mean a math person really understands how the climate works... or do they just punch in numbers into a program till they get the results they want?

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

I've had my fill of irony today.

Full.

Please save some for tomorrow when I'm bored.

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It's okay. I know you've admitted to doing just that yourself.

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Originally Posted by Warriorbird

The man is paid, as point of fact, to promote the views of industry. That makes him a shill by Jarvan's definition.He is functioning as a PR rep. You asked that cwolff "Listen to his views." The only one that is being fallacious is you, by acting in bad faith.

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It's not my definition, it's the definition of the word. Which makes like.. 90% of the world a "Shill" for something.

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Originally Posted by cwolff

Look at the bolded items. I didn't say this stuff.

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Yes, that's my point because that's exactly what Moore said and yet all you've said is "shill!"

Regardless I didn't even say you said those things, you asked what my point was and I told you exactly what my point was and has been for the past several pages. Talk about a red herring.

Calm down, I'm not out to get you.

Yet.

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Originally Posted by cwolff

Find for me where Moore or Penn and Teller say that his business is to be a spokesperson for the industries that the ACC movement is railing against.

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Whom he works for is irrelevant to what he is saying in this video.

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Originally Posted by Jarvan

It's not my definition, it's the definition of the word. Which makes like.. 90% of the world a "Shill" for something.

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Jesus, Now that we finally got you guys to admit Mr. Moore is a shill you immediately move on to rationalization.