Things that made you Facepalm today (Political Version)

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Originally Posted by Gelston

Guess what? You want the economy to grow. The more people, the more jobs that also begin to open up. They'll need food, more farming jobs, more grocery stores. They need housing, more construction jobs to build that housing. It all goes through that.

A stagnant economy isn't great. America became what it is because of immigration, no because we just waited on our current population to make children.

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I agree with you on population growth being necessary to grow our economy.

We are in a position to be fairly picky on who we let into our country, and it should be the best & brightest people that the world has to offer. The notion that we, for example, were at any point in history totally cool with whoever came through our southern border or that was our official immigration policy is simply false.

Again I say to you that letting in everybody all the time as you suggested would have significant negative consequences. You want a litmus test for that? Name one country in the world that has that kind of immigration policy.

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

I agree with you on population growth being necessary to grow our economy.

We are in a position to be fairly picky on who we let into our country, and it should be the best & brightest people that the world has to offer. The notion that we, for example, were at any point in history totally cool with whoever came through our southern border or that was our official immigration policy is simply false.

Again I say to you that letting in everybody all the time as you suggested would have significant negative consequences. You want a litmus test for that? Name one country in the world that has that kind of immigration policy.

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Don't believe he's saying everyone, all the time. I would say our existing immigration policies are fine, they just are vastly under funded and have artificial limits imposed. You fund the courts and the process, and like Gelston said, hammer the illegals always, and all of a sudden we know who's coming, who's here and immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers can actually get in. Today they can't because our system is massively overwhelmed, so they do desperate things, overwhelming it further.

Who cares if a person is low skill or uneducated? Their children might not be, they could also just have never had the chance to get an education, or a myriad of other reasons.

I don't trust the government at all, they shouldn't be limiting who can come to America for a better life so long as those people understand our rules, regulations and are coming here for good reasons.

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Originally Posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage

Don't believe he's saying everyone, all the time. I would say our existing immigration policies are fine, they just are vastly under funded and have artificial limits imposed. You fund the courts and the process, and like Gelston said, hammer the illegals always, and all of a sudden we know who's coming, who's here and immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers can actually get in. Today they can't because our system is massively overwhelmed, so they do desperate things, overwhelming it further.

Who cares if a person is low skill or uneducated? Their children might not be, they could also just have never had the chance to get an education, or a myriad of other reasons.

I don't trust the government at all, they shouldn't be limiting who can come to America for a better life so long as those people understand our rules, regulations and are coming here for good reasons.

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Yeah most definitely our system of letting in legal immigrants can be improved immensely. I’d say that is more of a problem/outcome of bureaucracy, but sure.

The thing is, most of the world wants to come to America for a better life. You guys know I don’t trust our government much either as we fuck shit up all the time, but immigration is definitely one of those functions of a federal government.

Let’s imagine for a moment there are 3 billion people in line right now to come into our country…all of them good hard working people. You want to let in that many people right now? You don’t think there would be severe negative consequences in doing so?

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

Yeah most definitely our system of letting in legal immigrants can be improved immensely. I’d say that is more of a problem/outcome of bureaucracy, but sure.

The thing is, most of the world wants to come to America for a better life. You guys know I don’t trust our government much either as we fuck shit up all the time, but immigration is definitely one of those functions of a federal government.

Let’s imagine for a moment there are 3 billion people in line right now to come into our country…all of them good hard working people. You want to let in that many people right now? You don’t think there would be severe negative consequences in doing so?

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I think you over estimate how many people want to and probably more importantly can immigrate to the US and are using incredibly large numbers (almost half the world pop?!) to make a hypothetical argument. And even if true, I'd still be leaning towards it's the right thing and in the long run would help America prosper.

And full disclosure, I'm married to a legal immigrant and know quite a bit about how difficult it was for her and her sisters to get her legally.

Obviously people would still be screened. I don't think it should cost a dime to apply for a green card or entry though.

Prohibitive costs is what causes people to take cheaper, illegal routes, where they can be used as drug mules and all that mess.

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

Yeah most definitely our system of letting in legal immigrants can be improved immensely. I’d say that is more of a problem/outcome of bureaucracy, but sure.

The thing is, most of the world wants to come to America for a better life. You guys know I don’t trust our government much either as we fuck shit up all the time, but immigration is definitely one of those functions of a federal government.

Let’s imagine for a moment there are 3 billion people in line right now to come into our country…all of them good hard working people. You want to let in that many people right now? You don’t think there would be severe negative consequences in doing so?

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3.5% unemployment and we've had record low unemployment for some time now barring COVID-19, simply because there are more jobs available than there unemployed people on the market. As of January 2023, this number stood at 1.9 jobs per unemployed person and it has been that way for approximately a year. Plainly put, we need immigrants who are wanting to enter employment and live within the laws of our land, one of the benefits to a fully functioning legal immigration system is it helps to fill that gap.

Let's say you expanded the visa, and guest worker program well past the (I think) roughly 40k per year that're permitted to 100k by a compromise expansion of the program that also includes /much needed/ reform to expedited removal for the criminal elements eligible for expulsion due to violent misdemeanors or felonies. You have a much needed addition to the workforce which will take some time to get up to speed due to education and language barriers, yet will eventually become fully functioning. This will have the added benefit of lowering labor costs due to cutting the tight labor force constraints that're in place, while adding additional people to the retail economy. Remember, some 70% of our GDP is based upon retail expenditures, so this will be an added boon.

You've said a few times now 'good hard working people' and I'll take your word that you're not hung up on skin color and origin as so many people are. We need people, regardless of their pigmentation, so long as they're contributing to society and following our laws there should be no other relevant considerations inside legal immigration.

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Originally Posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage

I think you over estimate how many people want to and probably more importantly can immigrate to the US and are using incredibly large numbers (almost half the world pop?!) to make a hypothetical argument. And even if true, I'd still be leaning towards it's the right thing and in the long run would help America prosper.

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Yes I used a massive number as a hypothetical to illustrate a point. We don’t have the infrastructure or resources to support that many people. I’m pro legal immigration and all about improving that process, but I do believe there are limits to the number we can accept.

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Originally Posted by Gelston

Obviously people would still be screened. I don't think it should cost a dime to apply for a green card or entry though.

Prohibitive costs is what causes people to take cheaper, illegal routes, where they can be used as drug mules and all that mess.

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I agree with the prohibitive cost part and that it needs a significant overhaul / reform. Somebody is paying for the legal fees and such though. It’s either tax payers or the applicants. Nothing is for free. I’m sure there is a way we can make it not prohibitively expensive while also not adding a significant tax burden.

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Originally Posted by Seran

You've said a few times now 'good hard working people' and I'll take your word that you're not hung up on skin color and origin as so many people are. We need people, regardless of their pigmentation, so long as they're contributing to society and following our laws there should be no other relevant considerations inside legal immigration.

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I know you think that since I’m from Texas and conservative that I must be some white supremacist KKK racist, but it’s simply not true.

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