More Obamacare fuckups

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Originally Posted by Warriorbird

Not much of a fan of representative government or the service industry or the military, are you? I'm sure the list goes on.

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I believe very strongly in a representative government. My government is not currently representing me.

I work in the service industry. So yeah, not really big fan of that.

Are you seriously comparing civilian society to the military?

You know what I said. More importantly, you know what I meant. (hint: they're the same thing)

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Originally Posted by Thondalar

I believe very strongly in a representative government. My government is not currently representing me.

I work in the service industry. So yeah, not really big fan of that.TX tree 444\

Are you seriously comparing civilian society to the military?

You know what I said. More importantly, you know what I meant. (hint: they're the same thing)

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The continued campaign against critical thinking is stunning. You have people who make decisions for you in government, the service industry, and the military. Yet when its Obama you suggest that people who are fine with experts making decisions for them should go to prison. Should we jail your party members, coworkers, and the military?

Even when I disagreed with what Bush did I still believed he represented me.

Anyone else wondering how much the Administration is going to lie when Nov 15th rolls around?

Or will they say NOW that the website is mostly fixed we can start enrolling people, and we will count from then on.

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Originally Posted by Thondalar

Well, I can't argue that. My apologies for taking your statement as something related to the current conversation, and not just a pointless factoid.

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With respect, I think you skipped over crb's post and used my post to vent a frustration you apparently have been harboring for some time.

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So what are the qualifications that must be met for an act to be considered "responsible"?

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Since you ask, I would say that most people use "responsible" to mean following through on agreements/assignments rather than egoism. This feeds into my main point; that unenlightened egoism is absolutely not a productive societal strategy.

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Originally Posted by Latrinsorm

Reality is not up for debate. What is in your best interest is, period. If everyone believes it, if no one believes it, if negative people believe it. There is no "decision" about it any more than there is a "decision" about the mass of a carbon atom.

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Well said! Some things -- most things really -- are black and white, with no room for debate. It's just as true with Obamacare as with carbon atoms.

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Originally Posted by Warriorbird

The continued campaign against critical thinking is stunning. You have people who make decisions for you in government, the service industry, and the military. Yet when its Obama you suggest that people who are fine with experts making decisions for them should go to prison. Should we jail your party members, coworkers, and the military?

Even when I disagreed with what Bush did I still believed he represented me.

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If you think I solely disagree with Obama, you obviously haven't been paying attention...I can track my disenfranchisement back to Reagan...ZOMG! What!??!?!?!? Thondalar going against the undisputed king of free market/capitalism/conservatism/all mighty REAGAN?!?!?

Yeah. I kind of have a history of this. Which is why all of you hate me.

I'm immune to party lines.

I tend to lean towards this little thing called logic.

Which both parties seem to have lost track of.

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Originally Posted by Latrinsorm

With respect, I think you skipped over crb's post and used my post to vent a frustration you apparently have been harboring for some time.

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Nah, I totally read his post. The statement you made, which I responded to, would be akin to Thondalar: "man, the Tigers are gonna clean house against them sucka Sox" Latrin: "The game of baseball is played with a baseball."

Did your comment have relevance? In the universal sense, in as far as anything has relevance....yes. Did it have any bearing on the conversation? Not one bit.

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Since you ask, I would say that most people use "responsible" to mean following through on agreements/assignments rather than egoism. This feeds into my main point; that unenlightened egoism is absolutely not a productive societal strategy.

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This one statement brings so many questions. Define: "most", "agreements/assignments", "egoism", "unenlightened", "productive", "society", "strategy"

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Originally Posted by Warriorbird

I find it awful convenient when a certain group with a vested (if laughable) interest in the failure of a thing has "problems." Little things like you having actual quotes but still saying you're "having trouble" are telling. You can certainly claim a conspiracy if you want. I think it's funny that you are only capable of seeing bias going in one direction.

RE: the plans I was just curious about what his friends' prior insurance costs were and if he'd looked at all his options in different levels. I know a number of people who, in my state at least, are doing better than before.

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Sorry for the delay.

It's my brother not my friend. Insurance before wasn't offered. And he was ok with that but now he's not allowed to be ok with that. I told him he's best of paying the fine (that makes sense right getting nothing but still having to feed the system instead of just getting nothing). In order to "comply" the cheapest plan we could find was 700 a month, which is more than his mortgage, hell that's more than my mortgage and I have a pretty nice middle America, middle class house on an acre of land.

As for their household income it is enough they don't qualify for assistance but not enough where a 700 addition to the monthly budget is feasible.

As before I'm all for giving everyone the OPTION to access affordable healthcare, what I'm against is the REQUIREMENT (or face a penalty that's not really an option to me) to get healthcare that isn't, in my opinion, affordable. When affordable means the lowest demographic can get inexpensive policies but the middle class has to completely redo their budgets and forgo other options for their income usage that is not affordable. And like I said based on pure anecdotal observation that's what I'm seeing. I've not looked to see what a policy comparable to what I have now will cost, I just hope my employer doesn't say go get some of that ACA I'm not paying for it anymore.

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Originally Posted by AnticorRifling

Sorry for the delay.

It's my brother not my friend. Insurance before wasn't offered. And he was ok with that but now he's not allowed to be ok with that. I told him he's best of paying the fine (that makes sense right getting nothing but still having to feed the system instead of just getting nothing). In order to "comply" the cheapest plan we could find was 700 a month, which is more than his mortgage, hell that's more than my mortgage and I have a pretty nice middle America, middle class house on an acre of land.

As for their household income it is enough they don't qualify for assistance but not enough where a 700 addition to the monthly budget is feasible.

As before I'm all for giving everyone the OPTION to access affordable healthcare, what I'm against is the REQUIREMENT (or face a penalty that's not really an option to me) to get healthcare that isn't, in my opinion, affordable. When affordable means the lowest demographic can get inexpensive policies but the middle class has to completely redo their budgets and forgo other options for their income usage that is not affordable. And like I said based on pure anecdotal observation that's what I'm seeing. I've not looked to see what a policy comparable to what I have now will cost, I just hope my employer doesn't say go get some of that ACA I'm not paying for it anymore.

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If it were up to me, that mandate wouldn't be there. It's what the original Heritage Foundation idea that Obama stole from had in it though and it's what Obama used to get insurance companies to be okay with all of this. I'd probably tell your brother to take the penalty too, but look into seeing if he can get lower options on the list. Silver is only a requirement if you want the tax credit, I believe, which he sounds excluded from, which leaves Bronze. Since you're slightly less rural than me there might be HMO/PPO stuff too.

I like the idea but I think a lot of the requirements are wrong, implementation is rushed, the infrastructure isn't ready. It, like everything else, will be modified, amended, and adjusted I would just rather see something delivered correctly than something rushed to delivery to say "HAHA WE FUCKING DID IT" which is what I kind of feel happened here.