More Obamacare fuckups

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Originally Posted by Warriorbird

You seem to be woefully unaware of the tax structure that existed before the income tax. You also seem completely unaware of all the benefits you get from the federal government.

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The single largest source of income was trade tariffs, which I'm totally cool with. Naturally I would be completely against poll taxes...I've said before I have no problem with municipal taxes. There is very, very little that I'm "unaware of" when it comes to US history.

To the other I must declare my ignorance...what benefits will I receive that I wouldn't otherwise have without paying an income tax?

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On top of both of those, you're still deaf to the miserable failure the Articles of Confederation was.

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No, I just usually ignore you when you bring it up, because it's what you always fall back on when your arguments falter. I have never once said I wanted to go back to the Articles of the Confederation, but keep it up. :deadhorse:

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Originally Posted by Thondalar

I gain no benefit from Federal taxes over the benefit I would gain from not having them.

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This is an absurd statement.
-military
-civil rights
-infrastructure
-law enforcement
All gone or catastrophically undermined without a powerful federal government. Do you think it's a coincidence we became the greatest and best country in the world only after we implemented a federal income tax? You should, because to some extent it is. But it really, really, really helped.

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Originally Posted by Thondalar

The single largest source of income was trade tariffs, which I'm totally cool with. Naturally I would be completely against poll taxes...I've said before I have no problem with municipal taxes. There is very, very little that I'm "unaware of" when it comes to US history.

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There's this tiny little problem where the entirety of your political party is.

The failure of your system doesn't actually represent a dead horse.

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Originally Posted by Latrinsorm

This is an absurd statement.
-military
-civil rights
-infrastructure
-law enforcement
All gone or catastrophically undermined without a powerful federal government. Do you think it's a coincidence we became the greatest and best country in the world only after we implemented a federal income tax? You should, because to some extent it is. But it really, really, really helped.

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As Latrin explains, the history of America under the income tax actually does an excellent job of illustrating why it is still relevant.

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Originally Posted by Thondalar

The single largest source of income was trade tariffs, which I'm totally cool with.

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...okay, this is an absurd statement. Mercantilism? That's your plan?

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Originally Posted by Latrinsorm

This is an absurd statement.
-military
-civil rights
-infrastructure
-law enforcement
All gone or catastrophically undermined without a powerful federal government. Do you think it's a coincidence we became the greatest and best country in the world only after we implemented a federal income tax? You should, because to some extent it is. But it really, really, really helped.

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We were the greatest and best country in the world the day we ratified our Constitution. We became the most powerful country in the world because of the aforementioned Constitution, our diverse background, abundant natural resources, and strategically excellent global position. None of these things require a federal income tax.

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Originally Posted by Thondalar

We were the greatest and best country in the world the day we ratified our Constitution. We became the most powerful country in the world because of the aforementioned Constitution, our diverse background, abundant natural resources, and strategically excellent global position. None of these things require a federal income tax.

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That's a slippery slope. Anyone who comes along and writes a better constitution automatically jumps ahead of us in the greatest and best category.

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Originally Posted by Warriorbird

There's this tiny little problem where the entirety of your political party is.

The failure of your system doesn't actually represent a dead horse.

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"my party" doesn't want to go back to the Articles of Confederation. That is the far extreme...right now we're getting very near the opposite extreme. We're trying to get back a little closer to the middle.

Hey Thond, If you remember, can and are so inclined, please put up those numbers on the 4 years of taxes paid vs. limited benefits received. If you don't want to, that's A-OK. I don't like to get personal here either. What I want to do is look at the benefits as a % of total taxes and % of taxes collected which were earmarked towards those social programs.

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Originally Posted by Thondalar

We were the greatest and best country in the world the day we ratified our Constitution. We became the most powerful country in the world because of the aforementioned Constitution, our diverse background, abundant natural resources, and strategically excellent global position. None of these things require a federal income tax.

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You're certainly deaf to why the tax happened, much like your deafness to why the Federal Reserve happened. It's convenient to ignore our success since they've occurred and hyper focus on your perceived loss of "freedoms."

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Originally Posted by Thondalar

"my party" doesn't want to go back to the Articles of Confederation. That is the far extreme...right now we're getting very near the opposite extreme. We're trying to get back a little closer to the middle.

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You don't want to pay taxes. You don't want any useful social programs. You don't want lawsuits to stop corporate actions. You don't want regulations to protect us. Many of you don't even want to fund the military, police, fire prevention, and schools.

What does that sound like?

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Originally Posted by cwolff

Hey Thond, If you remember, can and are so inclined, please put up those numbers on the 4 years of taxes paid vs. limited benefits received. If you don't want to, that's A-OK. I don't like to get personal here either. What I want to do is look at the benefits as a % of total taxes and % of taxes collected which were earmarked towards those social programs.

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I received roughly $1800 in benefits total...I would have to dig up tax returns from 19 years ago to see what all I paid in. My wife keeps all of that stuff somewhere, I'll ask her when she gets home.