https://y.yarn.co/ee030e09-7ca1-42bf...bef68_text.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Methais
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https://y.yarn.co/ee030e09-7ca1-42bf...bef68_text.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Methais
The below is from the meeting of Trump with Zelenski and European leaders on Monday. Trump is just making up past diplomatic successes that never happened.
Here's what's really going on. Trump wanted a ceasefire to be the result of his meeting with Putin last week. He said so publicly before the meeting and threatened severe consequences to Russia if Russia did not agree to the ceasefire. Putin said no. Trump, unwilling to admit that he did not get what he wanted in negotiations with Putin, is saying that a ceasefire is not important. In fact, I'm not sure that Trump got anything at all from negotiations with Putin. The outcome of the Trump/Putin meeting was that Putin got more time to press his advantage in Ukraine.Quote:
TRUMP: Mr. Chancellor from Germany, a very, very great leader.
MERZ: Mr. President, Donald, many thanks for having us today. I think this is extremely helpful that we are meeting and hearing that the two of you are having such a good meeting today here in Washington. The next steps ahead are the more complicated ones now. The path is open. You opened it last Friday. But now the way is open for complicated negotiations.
And to be honest, we all would like to see a ceasefire. The latest from the next meeting on. I can’t imagine that the next meeting would took place without a ceasefire. So let’s work on that. And let’s try to put pressure on Russia. Because the credibility of these efforts we are undertaking today are depending on at least a ceasefire from the beginning of the serious negotiations from next step on. So I would like to emphasize this aspect and would like to see a ceasefire from the next meeting, which should be a trilateral meeting wherever it takes place.
TRUMP: We’re going to let the President go over and talk to the President, and we’ll see how that works out. And if we can do that, I will say it again. I say it in the six wars that I’ve settled. I haven’t had a ceasefire. We just got into negotiations, and the one of the wars was, as you know, in the Congo was 30 years, 31 years long. Another one that we settled last week with two great countries was 35 years going on, and we had no ceasefire. So if we can do the ceasefire, great. And if we don’t do a ceasefire, because many other points were given to us, many, many points were given to us, great points.
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Fact: More work towards peace has happened in the past week than at anytime during the Biden Administration.Quote:
Originally Posted by ClydeR
Get fucked, retard. I know you wanted this war to continue so more people will die.
You fucking ghoul.
Why do people keep saying that Trump is just "giving Putin more time"? Like, or else what? What is going to happen?
Ukraine has always been in a losing position in this war. Sure they have managed to reclaim some of their territory and has managed to slow Russia's advance, but Ukraine has always been in a losing position, and that's WITH the US giving them hundreds of billions of dollars worth of weapons and other support, and other countries giving them weapons and money.
So what now? What is Trump going to do? Give Ukraine more money so more young Ukrainians die before Russia inevitably steamrolls their defenses? Russia has many more resources and many more men to throw into the meat grinder than Ukraine does.
Either Ukraine accepts a peace agreement or they will eventually lose anyways after much death and destruction.
This is just how Democrats act about shit that goes on here in the US: they don't give a single fuck about anyone in Ukraine because they aren't the ones who have to suffer the consequences of their virtue signaling.
They are all too happy to see more young men in Ukraine die just so they can say "I'm standing up to Putin! I'm on the right side of history!"
I’ve been saying this for years. Short of direct military intervention (IE boots on the ground) from the U.S. or Europe, Ukraine cannot win this war even with advanced NATO weapons. They don’t have the manpower. Russia does. Russia can send another million people to die and it wouldn’t phase them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
The Ukrainians have fought honorably and has proved to the world Russia is a paper tiger militarily. It’s time to end this thing. The longer it goes on, the more Russia will make slow territorial gains on Ukraine. Putin will not and cannot end this war without something to show for it. The way to peace is Ukraine to cede some territory, Ukraine receives security guarantees, and both Russia & Ukraine make some trade deals with the West. If that doesn’t happen, the war and status quo will continue.
tRuMp ShOuLd HaVe ArReStEd PuTiN iN aLaSkA!!!!!!!1111 -CrackrashQuote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
At this point I'm convinced leftists such as Back WANT Trump to start WW3, just so they can say "See?! We tried to warn you he would start WW3!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Methais
These people would also be the first to flee to a safe country if WW3 started instead of helping to defend against the shit they started.
They literally don't care what it is as long as it makes Trump look bad. It could be some world ending event that Trump stopped and they'd still be outraged over that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
Right Back?
It's not much different than when some dude interviews leftists on the street and quotes something Obama or whoever said, but says Trump said it, and they're like "Whoa that's the most fucking racist thing I've ever heard in my life see I told you Trump was literally Hitler!!!!!" and the interviewer guy is like "Yeah, Obama actually said that, not Trump." and then they come back with some dumb shit like "Well I'm sure he had his reasons but still....TRUMP!!!!!"
A couple of points on this whole conflict:
- The wrong side of history is Biden saying a small incursion might be ok. Before that was Obama doing nothing over the seizure of Crimea. The fact that Europe was buying Russian gas after the Crimea thing suggests they are stupid, short sighted and don't give a shit. Of course, for Europe, this is no surprise at all.
- The Ukraine had nukes, like a lot of nukes and the infrastructure to support them. At the behest of the US and NATO, they agreed to give them up in exchange for guarantees, among them no entrance into NATO and so called protection in exchange for not being invaded. NATO at the behest of Europeans broke that part, Putin broke the no invasion part and the rest of the world fucked off on the protection agreements. This has pretty much shown the world that short of very public treaties and public scrutiny, they can't trust others for their protection and no one that ever develops nukes in the world will ever give them up again, ever. It has probably also convinced a lot of people in the world that they might need to seriously consider nukes if things keep going to shit. Despite the rhetoric, the tech to make nukes is not complicated, the tech to make good nukes is and requires a technical base the rest of the world is struggling to get. Quality industrial 3D printing will narrow that gap in minutes if not hours if people put their mind to it.
- Both Ukraine and Russia could have been in NATO right after the breakup of the USSR but Europe deemed "to soon." See how that has worked out for them.
- Ukraine is tapped for men, that's true, Russia is hurting for men, the rest of the world has had their fun and games using the place as a tech test program. An insane amount of military hardware and tactics will be redesigned, upgraded and so on because of this war. I mean really, a T-90 got dogwalked by a pair of export M2 Bradleys. By all rights, it should have fired 2 shots and they should have been smoking heaps. Cheap drones are a proven real threat. If you can get close enough with a decent signal, multiple millions of dollars of hard to replace aircraft and almost impossible to replace ships are doomed. I am pretty sure the US has already solved the drone problem and just hasn't told anyone. There is a reason a lot of our hardware is wire guided.
If Trump negotiates this peace with minimal land loss and/or perhaps some swap then we should call it good. Adding in Article 4 type defense treaty protections could cause us grief later but with proper financial incentive, read rare earth minerals and so on, then it will be worth it. In the end, the long tradition of Russia invading places won't stop until Putin gets out of the picture and a lot of old Soviet citizens die off.
Europe hates us except when they want our money or military or both. After the BS bluster and mouthy bullshit of the first half of this year, it was gratifying to see all the leaders in the oval office kissing ass and singing a new tune. After this peace settlement, Trump really does deserve a Nobel Prize despite the fact that after the past 20 years of woke bullshit, they don't carry the reputation they used too.
The USSR wanted to join NATO when it was formed, but we told them no.
:(