Things that made you Facepalm today (Political Version)

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10-09-2019, 09:59 PM
Parkbandit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taernath

I want a consistent foreign policy that isn't subject to whatever Trump feels like doing that day.

Wait.. didn't Trump run on getting us out of all these areas that hate us anyway and bring an end to all the decade long wars?

So.. he's been saying he's going to be doing this since 2015.. but you believe he just woke up yesterday and decided that?
10-09-2019, 10:26 PM
Archigeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tgo01

Yeah I was really hoping Turkey wouldn't attack. Hopefully Trump holds good on his Twitter threat that he is going to hold Turkey responsible in someway.

Reading up on this more it almost sounds like Turkey was basically telling the US they were going to invade Syria no matter what, if that's true at that point what do we do? Keep troops there and get into a war with Turkey? Something tells me that wouldn't have gone over well either. I think a big problem is no one in the West seems to want to hold anyone accountable for anything anymore, unless they are long time allies like Saudi Arabia.

But holding China responsible for the shit they do? Nope, Trump only does it in regards to tariffs. No one in Congress or the rest of the West seems to give a shit.
Hold Russia responsible? Nope. Most of Europe wants that gas and oil from Russia.
Hold Iran responsible? Nope. The west can't get enough Iran dick to suck.

What happened to the West since, oh I don't know, around 2009?

We keep troops there and there's no way they attack.
10-09-2019, 10:41 PM
Tgo01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archigeek

We keep troops there and there's no way they attack.

Just for the sake of argument let's say Turkey did say we are going to invade this area whether you have troops there or not. What do we do? Keep troops there and call their bluff? And if they do attack and they end up killing some of our troops, even though they warned us ahead of time of their plan, do we then go to war or what?

From what I have read the troops we removed performed a support role, they weren't really combat troops.
10-09-2019, 11:12 PM
Furryrat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archigeek

We keep troops there and there's no way they attack.

This isn't some terrible act of betrayal. The raw facts are that the Turkish government has been fighting against their own home-grown "terrorists", the YPG, since 1978. The Obama administration created a vacuum in Iraq with massive troop withdrawals in 2011 which directly led to the formation of ISIS/ISIL/Daesh, which then spread into Syria. In 2014 corrective action was finally deemed necessary and we needed allies on the ground, and the Kurds were one of few parties who fit the role of an 'enemy of our enemy is our friend.' Sadly, this isn't the first time the US government has used the Kurds in this fashion. Iraqi Kurdistan was a pawn in the Iraq war in the early '90s, and perhaps now not so ironically, it was Turkey that also denied the US access to Iraq in 2003 for fear of inevitable sympathy for Kurdish suffering.
10-09-2019, 11:12 PM
Taernath

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

Wait.. didn't Trump run on getting us out of all these areas that hate us anyway and bring an end to all the decade long wars?

So.. he's been saying he's going to be doing this since 2015.. but you believe he just woke up yesterday and decided that?

That wasn't how his administration was running things, though. Apparently they were completely blindsided by his latest impulse and there's no real plan in place beyond chucking deuces. We even told the Kurds we'd protect them and asked them to reduce fortification levels to reduce tensions a few weeks ago.

Shit, we've worked alongside the Kurds for about 16 years now, not just in Syria but in Iraq too. These are people who have been on the literal front lines for our Middle East military adventurism and now we've abandoned them. There almost certainly will be another massive humanitarian crisis. I hope I'm wrong.
10-09-2019, 11:23 PM
Archigeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tgo01

Just for the sake of argument let's say Turkey did say we are going to invade this area whether you have troops there or not. What do we do? Keep troops there and call their bluff? And if they do attack and they end up killing some of our troops, even though they warned us ahead of time of their plan, do we then go to war or what?

From what I have read the troops we removed performed a support role, they weren't really combat troops.

That's not what happened though. Erdogan didn't call Trump to tell him "get out of the way, we're attacking." I guess we'll see if mr "great and unmatched wisdom" uses an excuse to do nothing or acts. What we did to the Kurds was bullshit.
10-09-2019, 11:39 PM
Tgo01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archigeek

That's not what happened though. Erdogan didn't call Trump to tell him "get out of the way, we're attacking."

From what I understand that's exactly what happened. Turkey said they were going to invade Northern Syria, Trump and Erdogan spoke, next thing you know Trump is pulling our troops back.

Heck Turkey has been talking about invading Northern Syria for months now. That's what the phone call was all about.
10-09-2019, 11:42 PM
Furryrat

I don't understand the woke outrage. Can someone explain what action they would like to see in response to this? Civil war has been raging in Syria since 2011, with many foreign actors, most notably Russia. Is it now Turkey, a founding UN member, NATO member as well, that we should reprimand, sanction, and war against?
10-10-2019, 12:02 AM
Tgo01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furryrat

I don't understand the woke outrage. Can someone explain what action they would like to see in response to this? Civil war has been raging in Syria since 2011, with many foreign actors, most notably Russia. Is it now Turkey, a founding UN member, NATO member as well, that we should reprimand, sanction, and war against?

I'm confused too. Were we supposed to help the Kurds build an empire in Syria on the border with Turkey? Were we going to build a base there and station troops there forever like we did in South Korea and Japan?

Maybe Trump could have given our Kurdish allies more of a heads up, but it's not like Turkey hasn't been threatening to invade for months now.

Again I ask what about the international community? Where is the UN? UK? Germany? France? Anyone? Is it always up to the US to build up nations and as soon as shit goes south it's all the US' fault? Why aren't more countries doing more to stand up to Turkey instead of giving out dumb statements that amount to jack shit?
10-10-2019, 12:13 AM
Taernath

I guess if you guys don't understand why abandoning military allies is fundamentally wrong, there isn't much discussion to be had.

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