Russia Just Invaded Ukraine

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07-31-2023, 07:15 PM
Suppressed Poet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seran

A fact conveniently forgotten by the far right that is eager to paint Trump as some peace loving saint or martyr being prosecuted for being 'the best President in US history since Abraham Lincoln.'

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...40/299/868.jpg
07-31-2023, 08:14 PM
Seran

I'm sure when Trump is sentenced to prison, he'll have plenty of time to paint himself as the American version of Nelson Mandela.
07-31-2023, 09:34 PM
Suppressed Poet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seran

I'm sure when Trump is sentenced to prison, he'll have plenty of time to paint himself as the American version of Nelson Mandela.

Many thing are uncertain regarding Trump and his legal issues but mark my words now, Trump will never spend time inside a prison cell. If I’m wrong and he does, then you have my word I will admit & repent. But I’m not wrong…
08-01-2023, 02:30 AM
Solkern

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

The level of aid to Ukraine between Trump & Biden are incomparable.

While you are correct and it’s not comparable, does it really matter? Killing one person and killing 20, doesn’t change the fact that you are a murderer, or in this case, supporting a country with $500m or $500b, doesn’t change the fact that you supported it. He provided military and economic support to Ukraine, according to that, he’s also involved in this war.
If it does matter, where do you personally draw that line, on how much support can someone give, until they are considered involved?
08-01-2023, 07:11 AM
Parkbandit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solkern

While you are correct and it’s not comparable, does it really matter? Killing one person and killing 20, doesn’t change the fact that you are a murderer, or in this case, supporting a country with $500m or $500b, doesn’t change the fact that you supported it. He provided military and economic support to Ukraine, according to that, he’s also involved in this war.
If it does matter, where do you personally draw that line, on how much support can someone give, until they are considered involved?

So.. if Trump gave $1 and Biden gave 1 TRILLION.. they are both equally supportive?

If 1 person died vs. 100,000 people died.. it's the same thing?

Do you see where your weak argument makes you look silly.. or no?
08-01-2023, 07:27 AM
Solkern

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parkbandit

So.. if Trump gave $1 and Biden gave 1 TRILLION.. they are both equally supportive?

If 1 person died vs. 100,000 people died.. it's the same thing?

Do you see where your weak argument makes you look silly.. or no?

Obviously you have trouble with reading, go back and read my very first sentence and tell me what it says.

Giving $1 and giving $1928372882 both mean you support it, does it not?

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R45008

Go ahead and jump to page 32.
Foreign and Military Aid
After Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the United States began to provide higher levels of annual assistance to Ukraine across multiple accounts. From FY2015 to FY2020, State Department and USAID bilateral aid allocations to Ukraine (including foreign military financing, or FMF) totaled about $418 million a year on average (see Table 1). For FY2021, State Department and USAID allocations to Ukraine totaled about $464 million, including $115 million in FME. 162 The President's FY2022 State/USAID request for Ukraine is about $459 million.

Trump has given almost around 1.6B to Ukraine during his presidency, that’s not including his special military packages… that’s like $1 right?

You all were complaining that Biden was spending money for Ukraine, how come none of you did when Trump was doing it?

Next, you do realize that Obama provided zero lethal aid to Ukraine? It was actually Trump who started to provide lethal aid to Ukraine first. A clear sign of escalation and participation to the ongoing crisis.

Lethal and Nonlethal Security Assistance
The Obama Administration provided nonlethal security assistance to Ukraine, due to concerns about potential conflict escalation. 167 Such assistance included "body armor, helmets, vehicles, night and thermal vision devices, heavy engineering equipment, advanced radios, patrol boats, rations, tents, counter-mortar radars, uniforms, first aid equipment and supplies, and other related items. Both the Trump and Biden Administrations have provided nonlethal aid and defensive lethal weaponry to Ukraine.

Finally, the offensive aid that Biden has given to Ukraine, is strictly to take back its land, not to attack Russia.
08-01-2023, 07:57 AM
Solkern

Anyways, while I can agree, generally speaking, Trump was a relatively peaceful president, so was Clinton and others. To say he was the most peaceful since Ford or whoever, just isn’t true in my opinion.
08-01-2023, 08:00 AM
Suppressed Poet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solkern

While you are correct and it’s not comparable, does it really matter? Killing one person and killing 20, doesn’t change the fact that you are a murderer, or in this case, supporting a country with $500m or $500b, doesn’t change the fact that you supported it. He provided military and economic support to Ukraine, according to that, he’s also involved in this war.
If it does matter, where do you personally draw that line, on how much support can someone give, until they are considered involved?

It does matter. We give aid to countries all the time for all sorts of reasons. My objection to our aid to Ukraine isn’t a moral one. I understand our strategic interest in Ukraine as a buffer state to our NATO allies & that they are the victims of aggressive expansion, but we’re at a price tag of roughly $125 billion since the war began. That kind of spending simply isn’t justified in my opinion, especially when we already have issues at home with inflation. I suspect a lot of the motives for our involvement is not just for America’s strategic interest, but for the defense contractors that fund the campaigns of politicians from both parties.
08-01-2023, 08:04 AM
Solkern

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

It does matter. We give aid to countries all the time for all sorts of reasons. My objection to our aid to Ukraine isn’t a moral one. I understand our strategic interest in Ukraine as a buffer state to our NATO allies & that they are the victims of aggressive expansion, but we’re at a price tag of roughly $125 billion since the war began. That kind of spending simply isn’t justified in my opinion, especially when we already have issues at home with inflation. I suspect a lot of the motives for our involvement is not just for America’s strategic interest, but for the defense contractors that fund the campaigns of politicians from both parties.

You know, during the Covid situation, when the entire economy, country and people were struggling, we were still giving Ukraine more than 400m+ a year of lethal military, and economic aid, during the Trump administration, why does it matter now, but didn’t matter before? Because NO ONE complained once about what we were giving Ukraine during Covid.

Why does spending all of a sudden matter now? Is it because it’s the Biden administration, or what? Our country was in a far far worse state during Covid than it is now.
08-01-2023, 08:06 AM
Suppressed Poet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solkern

Anyways, while I can agree, generally speaking, Trump was a relatively peaceful president, so was Clinton and others. To say he was the most peaceful since Ford or whoever, just isn’t true in my opinion.

Clinton reduced our military budget. Some see that as a good thing, and for that time in history I generally agree. The budget surplus really helped to give us some good years of economic prosperity in the 90s. Some would argue that it also left us open for attack (9/11) and our military was ill-equipped when GWOT (global war on terror) kicked off.

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