More Obamacare fuckups

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jarvan

"Changing" the system is actually illegal.

---

I'm not sure you're familiar with how the Constitution works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tgo01

When the Affordable Care Act is not affordable I don't know how else you can characterize it other than an unmitigated disaster.

---

The Act is extremely affordable. I'll bet it takes less than $1,000 to print out a copy, what more do you want?

And next you'll be telling me the Alien and Sedition Acts were an unmitigated disaster because of 1947. How could the Founders have anticipated a New New Spain? They never saw Futurama.

Seriously though, the depiction in this article is that healthcare will not be affordable for a specific set of people employed by a specific type of employer under certain hypothetical conditions. This is very different from "healthcare will categorically not be affordable, hide your kids, hide your wife, hide your cell phones"; that is, an unmitigated disaster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Latrinsorm

I'm not sure you're familiar with how the Constitution works.

---

No, that isn't changing the system, that is altering the rules or players.

The system we have is a two party system with a political ruling class, a wealthy class, and everyone else. The fact that some politicians spend their ENTIRE lives in elected office just proves it. Our elected officials are never held responsible for anything they do. We can't remove them from office other then voting them out the next time, which is generally insanely hard to do, because people are stupid and they just vote for either who they are told to, or who they always have voted for.

Changing the system itself would require a change in government top to bottom, in it's type, how it's formed, how it acts, etc etc.

I do not think overthrowing out government is an allowed thing under the constitution. Hence, Illegal.

What's actually going to happen with this, and is already happening, is restaurant and retail companies will no longer have full-time employees. My restaurant is already moving to everyone part-time. I've had to cut everyone in the kitchen down to no more than 30 hours a week, and hire 4 new people.

This is great for employment, right!?

Yes and no. Unemployment will certainly go down, to a degree. While MOST of the "new jobs" will be people who already work getting a second job because they are no longer allowed to work full time at one job, there will certainly be some completely new people hired. Unintended Consequence...but in this case it'll be "oh look! Unemployment is down. It took him a little while, but see? We knew Obama would bring it back down."

It just sucks that now people in this category, which is mostly the lower income earners, will have to work two part time jobs with 0 benefits instead of one full time job with shitty benefits. Since they won't be able to afford their own health insurance, and their company won't have to provide it to them because they're part time workers, they will have two options. Either work two "full" part-time jobs, that is, 30 hours a week at two different places (meaning a 60-hour work week with no overtime compensation) in order to pay the IRS fine OR...

[tinfoil] only work ONE part time job, and get on medicaid, food stamps, etc. Which is what the (current) government wants anyway. Get everyone on the government handouts. Yes, my sheeple. It's GOOD to be lazy. See? We'll feed you, we'll give you health care...you have nothing to worry about in the Utopia we're building...[/tinfoil]

-Thond

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Back

Well just think... if you and everyone out there like you had actually voted against Obama he would not be in office right now and you would not have anything to complain about.

---

What about the rest of us that did vote against Obama?

This is clearly your fault because you voted for him.

What's more important than all of this is finding out why people still give Latrin serious responses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Methais

What about the rest of us that did vote against Obama?

This is clearly your fault because you voted for him.

What's more important than all of this is finding out why people still give Latrin serious responses.

---

Yeah, its called majority rule. The two clowns who post the most anti-Obama stuff on this board did not bother to vote in the last presidential election.

I'm very happy with my vote. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tgo01

Are you saying Obama is so useless that if everyone in the US would have actually voted he would have lost?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

---

You don't want to go down that road disenfranchisement guy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Back

Yeah, its called majority rule. The two clowns who post the most anti-Obama stuff on this board did not bother to vote in the last presidential election.

I'm very happy with my vote. Thanks.

---

I see you don't really understand our political system. It's not Majority rule. The popular vote is meaningless after all.

But.. keep trying. Keep trying to say that my 1 vote in a solid blue state made a difference and is the reason why Obama is still in office. The fact that I don't like either candidate and I shouldn't have to vote for the lesser of two evils means nothing to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warriorbird

You don't want to go down that road disenfranchisement guy.

---

It just isn't a complete day for me unless I disenfranchise at least 50 people. My all time record was 564. This group of elderly people were heading to the voting stations but I could just tell they were voting for Obama because....well it was just obvious. So I was like "hold up there! There is a poll tax to vote 'ere today." And they started grumbling and I swear one of them was reaching for a gun so I had to pull out my nightstick (totally non sexual) and I started beating them all until they ran away.

It was a good day, another victory for the Republican party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jarvan

I see you don't really understand our political system. It's not Majority rule. The popular vote is meaningless after all.

But.. keep trying. Keep trying to say that my 1 vote in a solid blue state made a difference and is the reason why Obama is still in office. The fact that I don't like either candidate and I shouldn't have to vote for the lesser of two evils means nothing to you.

---

One of our rights as Americans is to vote since this country was founded. It is what we fought and keep fighting for. You could have written in someone. To neglect that right is not criminal. Certainly there is a form of protest in not voting. But honestly... not taking the time to vote then raising your voice against the system is somewhat hollow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jarvan

No, that isn't changing the system, that is altering the rules or players.

The system we have is a two party system with a political ruling class, a wealthy class, and everyone else. The fact that some politicians spend their ENTIRE lives in elected office just proves it. Our elected officials are never held responsible for anything they do. We can't remove them from office other then voting them out the next time, which is generally insanely hard to do, because people are stupid and they just vote for either who they are told to, or who they always have voted for.

Changing the system itself would require a change in government top to bottom, in it's type, how it's formed, how it acts, etc etc.

I do not think overthrowing out government is an allowed thing under the constitution. Hence, Illegal.

---

In fact that is exactly what the Constitution is for: fundamentally altering the government without the need for popular violence. If you want it, go get it. If you can be a better candidate, go to it, we don't actually have a closed political ruling class. Just look at Obama. Here's a hardworking Kenyan Islamic Indonesian Muslim with no executive experience whatsoever, and he gets elected President of the United States of America. You're white. What's your excuse? Women in the 1910s were barely a step above cattle on the political rights ladder (and that's 1910s cattle, not hippy dippy 2010s free range cruelty free cattle), and then we had women's suffrage. What's your excuse?

As to "people are stupid", that's another version of the same cop-out. If they're so easy to fool, why don't you do it?

There could be an entrenched conspiracy keeping your ideas from taking hold, or your ideas might just suck. If you don't try, you'll never know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thondalar

What's actually going to happen with this, and is already happening, is restaurant and retail companies will no longer have full-time employees. My restaurant is already moving to everyone part-time. I've had to cut everyone in the kitchen down to no more than 30 hours a week, and hire 4 new people.

This is great for employment, right!?

Yes and no. Unemployment will certainly go down, to a degree. While MOST of the "new jobs" will be people who already work getting a second job because they are no longer allowed to work full time at one job, there will certainly be some completely new people hired. Unintended Consequence...but in this case it'll be "oh look! Unemployment is down. It took him a little while, but see? We knew Obama would bring it back down."

It just sucks that now people in this category, which is mostly the lower income earners, will have to work two part time jobs with 0 benefits instead of one full time job with shitty benefits. Since they won't be able to afford their own health insurance, and their company won't have to provide it to them because they're part time workers, they will have two options. Either work two "full" part-time jobs, that is, 30 hours a week at two different places (meaning a 60-hour work week with no overtime compensation) in order to pay the IRS fine OR...

[tinfoil] only work ONE part time job, and get on medicaid, food stamps, etc. Which is what the (current) government wants anyway. Get everyone on the government handouts. Yes, my sheeple. It's GOOD to be lazy. See? We'll feed you, we'll give you health care...you have nothing to worry about in the Utopia we're building...[/tinfoil]

---

No, Thondalar, what will happen is the free market will magically create a restauranteur who offers full time employment with benefits and therefore magically attracts the best workers and therefore magically makes the most. It's called economics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Methais

What's more important than all of this is finding out why people still give Latrin serious responses.

---

I'm pretty thoughtful! And as the most scientific person here, I provide an ideological middle ground that is sorely underrepresented in modern political discourse.