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I didn't even know John Kerry stood for something. He switches sides so often I have no idea what's he's for and against.Quote:
Originally posted by Ilvane
I really believe that John Kerry would be a better leader than Bush. John Kerry isn't afraid to stand up for what he believes in, even if it isn't a popular opinion.
-A
Here, you want the story on the ad: Check this out, please. I respect McCain a great deal.
McCain condemns anti-Kerry ads, calls on White House to follow suit
By Ron Fournier, Associated Press, 8/5/2004 12:08
WASHINGTON (AP) Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service ''dishonest and dishonorable'' and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.
''It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me,'' McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, referring to his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.
The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.
''When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry,'' one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad. Thurlow didn't serve on Kerry's swiftboat, but says he witnessed the events that led to Kerry winning a Bronze Star and the last of his three Purple Hearts. Kerry's crewmates support the candidate and call him a hero.
The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in 2000.
''I wish they hadn't done it,'' McCain said of his former advisers. ''I don't know if they knew all the facts.''
Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, ''I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad.''
Later, McCain said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, ''I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt.''
The White House and Bush-Cheney campaign did not address McCain's call that they repudiate the spot, though a Bush spokesman said the campaign does not question Kerry's highly decorated war service. McCain is co-chair of Bush's campaign in Arizona.
In 2000, Bush's supporters sponsored a rumor campaign against McCain in the South Carolina primary, helping Bush win the primary and the nomination. McCain's supporters have never forgiven the Bush team.
McCain said that's all in the past to him, but he's speaking out against the anti-Kerry ad because ''it reopens all the old wounds of the Vietnam War, which I spent the last 35 years trying to heal.''
''I deplore this kind of politics,'' McCain said. ''I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War.''
McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.
The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying on all fronts.
They say Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the group's account ''pure fabrication.''
The leader of the group, retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry's. The group claims that there was no gunfire on the day Kerry pulled Rassmann from a muddy river in the Mekong Delta and that Kerry's arm was not wounded, as he has claimed.
''What we have is a fabrication that led to Kerry getting his Bronze Star and his last Purple Heart,'' said Thurlow, who said he commanded a swiftboat near Kerry's.
So just let me make sure I’ve got your viewpoint on this matter straight. These men are outright liars who are solely motivated by politics in stating that Kerry misrepresented his military record. Is that correct?Quote:
So yeah .. politically motivated fabrications with little corroboration from vets who support someone who didn't gven show up for the war. Yep .. pretty pathetic indeed.
Most politicians are outright liars solely motivated by politics.
I doubt they're motivated solely by politics. I think they're also stupid pieces of shit who are still angry that Kerry dared spreak out against the war.Quote:
Originally posted by pennywise
These men are outright liars who are solely motivated by politics in stating that Kerry misrepresented his military record. Is that correct?
I've mentioned the My Lai massacre before. The helicopter pilot who saw whatw as happening, landed, tried to stop it and managed to rescue some of the children who were being killed? And reported it to the military?
He receieved death threats. He was treated like a pariah. He dared tell the truth about innocent men, women and children being killed in cold blood by American soldiers. It didn't matter that it was an atrocity. He broke the "code" and "ratted" out his fellow soldiers. He only just received a commendation for his action: almost thirty years later the military admitted he did a good thing.
So I'm not at all surprised that Kerry is still taking flak from soldiers about daring to speak out against the war. He broke the code of silence. Good for him.
Raven
A series of old guys making nebulous claims about Kerry without elaborating? I'm convinced!
The matter isn't whether he served more then Bush.Quote:
Originally posted by Ilvane
Thank you Prestius, I was about to find the info to show Parkbandit, but I'm at work, so it takes time to check on these things.
I really believe that John Kerry would be a better leader than Bush. John Kerry isn't afraid to stand up for what he believes in, even if it isn't a popular opinion.
The protests against the war were not against the veterans. George Bush tries to say that nowadays too, that if you are against the war you are against the troops. In fact, the people protesting the war are *for* the troops and would like to see them out of danger.
-A
The matter is why he would have people he served with ON-STAGE at a convention praising his war effort when in fact they are a large minority.
The point is Kerry has what now appears to be less then a quarter of the people he served with up on stage praising his war effort. Kerry is saying 'if you don't know whether I'm fit to lead, ask my fellow crewmates.'
For once it really doesn't matter about Bush. Kerry is the one who told us to ask his swiftboat vets for information on what kind of a leader he is.
Oh little Prestius.. I was waiting for one of you Liberals to talk about that.Quote:
Originally posted by Prestius
Hmm .. interesting indeed. Let's not even forget the absurd hypocracy in someone bashing Kerry when Bush's war record is, shall we say, non-existant at best and criminal at the worst.
Hmm .. the primary financial supporter for SwiftVets is Robert Perry - who donated almost $4 million to Texas Republican candidates in 2000 and has donated to Bush's 2004 reelection campaign.
Two of the guys in the ad actually flew to Boston to support Kerry in his 1996 Senate campaign.
So yeah .. politically motivated fabrications with little corroboration from vets who support someone who didn't gven show up for the war. Yep .. pretty pathetic indeed.
-P
Weird how you have no problem with organizations like MoveOn.org or any of the people that spend MILLIONS on ads that bash Bush.
Robert Perry gave $100,000 to this group.. a far FAR cry from the 15-20 million given by a couple of Democrats.
Actually the men who are coming out with this ad, they were not on the Swiftboat with Kerry. In Fact, those who were with him did support him.
These are men that served "near" Kerry and were not directly involved in what happened with him. They are speculating that he didn't deserve his medals, when indeed he earned them. They are also upset that he protested the war.
Many of these men are actively giving money to the Republicans.
I ask you, is it believable?
-A
Nah, not as believeable as if they were on his boat.