No, not really. They are really based on how much revenue I bring in.Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR
It's harder than you think to spell check posting on an old battery-shot iPhone 3G. I refuse to buy another phone right now out of principle.
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No, not really. They are really based on how much revenue I bring in.Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR
It's harder than you think to spell check posting on an old battery-shot iPhone 3G. I refuse to buy another phone right now out of principle.
There exist appropriate times you must cutoff family, but the whole idea behind family is that they stick together. Most would agree that action should only be taken after all other options have been exhausted. Sure they may be assholes, but they are you're assholes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tgo01
*I am in no way saying you are bad/good/wrong/right in your particular situation. Just answering your question with my humble 2 cents.
Like I said, complicated. Also, maybe this is just me but the way I was raised, if you screwed up you got told about it. Maybe you want to hold JustDan's dad's hand and tell him what a precious snowflake he is and whatever he did wrong wasn't really that wrong and he doesn't deserve any criticism or repercussions for it. I guess you can do that if you want. Or you can jump to conclusions and assume his dad never did anything wrong and is entirely in the right. I guess you can do that too. Seems a little unrealistic to me, but you're free to your ridiculously naive opinion, and I won't criticize you for how verifiably absurd it is. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AnticorRifling
We agree that your brother's method of coping with a struggle you have no grasp of whatsoever is not satisfactory to you. Is that his problem or yours?Quote:
Originally Posted by JustDan
That's the thing, though. You're primarily considering it from your parents' side, how much it hurts them. What about how much it helps your brother? Surely your parents would rather be hurt than have him be hurt. I mean just look at the language you use: your brother is a cruel, greedy, heartless, underhanded, mean coward. Hobbes would find that a little much, meanwhile your father is just "far from a saint", and you tout all the work he's put in to the relationship while questioning whether your brother has any baggage growing up a gay Catholic in the 80s. That doesn't strike you as even a little one-sided?Quote:
It's like it somehow never occurred to him what impact this would have on my Dad.
My point is that there was a long time before your parents knew anything about your brother's sexuality, and the comments they made then don't just vanish, even if they forgot them 5 minutes after they said them. A person doesn't become gay when they come out, and none of us get do-overs for the hurtful things we've said. And if your parents have cash to burn, isn't that all the more reason not to care about them giving more?Quote:
And my parents (specifically my dad... my mom's retired) make a very comfortable living. Comfortable enough that my brother's Christmas present (about a week ago, before all this went down) was a gift of $19,000.00 and some change to pay off a loan. And that's far from the first time that they've lent my brother/sister significant financial assistance. They put 30k down on her house so she could afford it, have bought her at least two cars that I know of... I could go on and on. They've supported her even as she pursued a lifestyle that goes against their religious beliefs. My parents have worked hard to make sure that my sister/brother knew that they loved her/him no matter what, and that family was always family.
So... you raise a lot of valid points, when considered in a vacuum. And I realize that you don't know me or my family, so your points might have academic validity. There is a lot more to the whole story that I frankly don't feel comfortable sharing, as it's family stuff that I'd rather not open up to prolonged debate and judgement. Given that, I can't really debate your points on merit, as I'm unwilling to throw more evidence into the discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Latrinsorm
I feel, with my entire being, that what my brother did was a truly despicable thing. I have made clear to him exactly how I feel, in no uncertain terms, and what I believe he has done to the relationship between he and I. I've also made it crystal clear that his relationship with the rest of the family is entirely his business, and his problem (if there even is a problem). This is between he and I, not a donnybrook that I want to draw the entire family into. I also realize that this is all about feelings, and I've long believed that feelings are valid, and don't have to make sense. I happen to believe that my feelings do make sense, but most people generally do. My brother can feel like he's in the right, and that's valid as well. Where I get my hackles up is the collateral damage that he seems to have either maliciously or carelessly inflicted on my Dad. No matter what motivation he might try to claim, I can't be OK with his actions. And to then ask for more money just astounds me (and makes me believe the careless motivation over the malicious one). If it's just ignorance of the pain he's caused, then that's a staggeringly selfish act. If it's a malicious, deep-seated need to strike back at him for some past wrongs, fine, but you don't get to also stay fastened to the money teat (and I can't help but feel it's a pretty cowardly, passive-aggressive act, if the intent was to cause pain).
In what I quoted please show me what led you to believe I thought dad was, in any way shape or form, wrong or right in his past (and unknown to me) actions. I'll wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by Latrinsorm
I'm saying the son/daughter/latrinsorm is wrong for saying hey fuck you and hey gimmie free shit at the same time.
The wonderful thing about Latrinsorms, is Latrinsorms are never wrong. They're just right on a different axis (and their bottoms are made out of sprongs).Quote:
Originally Posted by AnticorRifling
See!!??Quote:
Originally Posted by JustDan
Let me put it this way: suppose you had a broken arm that set crooked. You go to the doctor and he recommends re-breaking it. Obviously this is a painful thing, but the doctor is neither ignorant nor malicious - the pain is a necessary evil for a greater good. It's a stupid, silly world that results in these dilemmas, but it's not the doctor who made it that way.Quote:
If it's just ignorance of the pain he's caused, then that's a staggeringly selfish act. If it's a malicious, deep-seated need to strike back at him for some past wrongs, fine, but you don't get to also stay fastened to the money teat (and I can't help but feel it's a pretty cowardly, passive-aggressive act, if the intent was to cause pain).
My suggestion is that your brother was broken and set crooked. Not because he was gay, but because of how your family talked about gays and talked about family. It would be more straightforward to deal with if he was simply abused from the start: a clean break, and move on with no contact. But he wasn't, he was given love while told what a horrible monster he was. You're not getting out of that in any straightforward way, and this is how you end up with apparently paradoxical behavior. More than apparent, actual. My suggestion is your brother loves your father, so he has no reason to break all contact... but love doesn't wash away scars.
I'm not telling you you should be happy about the situation, I just think it would be better for you and everyone in the long run to take a charitable view. Lemmas are axioms and dilemmas are puzzles: ignoring the second horn makes it seem axiomatic but doesn't make that horn go away.
Is this something (similar) that you are going thru yourself Latrinsorm with your parents?
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanteax
But I am a fringe person (perhaps my least controversial claim ever?), so I have an easier time empathizing, especially with people on other fringes.
India today. Flying out of Newark this afternoon. God I hate 15 hour flights.
I've done that a couple times... The worst is those last few hours when they spray the plain with insecticide to kill any mosquitoes.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEschaton