More Obamacare fuckups

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Originally Posted by Back

I think people have the right to choice buy anything they want.

The concept of universal healthcare is a large one to grasp. We've been living outside of that kind of system for a long time. It is a sea change to think that if we all just pitched in to a healthcare system that it could take care of everybody equally depending on their need. Life expectancy, longevity, infant mortality... these are all good things that let us continue to prosper. Together we can help each other live better lives.

Even if you look at it cynically China is spending less per person with a higher life expectancy. Shouldn't we be better at everything than everyone else in the world?

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In the United States, Medicare is a national social insurance program, administered by the U.S. federal government since 1965, that guarantees access to health insurance for Americans aged 65 and older and younger people with disabilities as well as people with end stage renal disease (Medicare.gov, 2012) and persons with Lou Gehrig’s Disease. As a social insurance program, Medicare spreads the financial risk associated with illness across society to protect everyone.

That's from Wiki. We've been into socialized medicine for nearly 50 years. It's not new.

The choice to buy anything they want? Even 64 oz Cokes, assault weapons, etc...? Hmm. And by implication, the choice to not buy anything they want, right? You sure you're a Democrat and in favor of the ACA, Back?

You don't sick? You don't like ACA.
You don't drive? You don't like taxes paying for roads.

Inorong?

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Originally Posted by Back

The life expectancy rate is lower but the ratio of what they spend per person versus their life expectancy is lower than ours. The one thing we are best at is high healthcare costs.

Not to mention all those other countries with "socialized" medicine who are kicking our ass.

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They also don't have an insane obesity rate. As of 2009 it wasn't even 5%. Since Obesity in the US is about 60% of healthcare costs (both directly, and indirectly) I can see why China has MUCH lower costs.

I'm so confused. So Back doesn't support the ACA now and my car insurance analogy somehow wasn't comparable. This is the last time I leave a thread to sleep.

I still maintain that being forced to buy a product through legislation written by companies providing that product is a crooked and underhanded way to do things. This will not make the product cheaper. This will make it more expensive as these companies are already raising prices and taking a lot of the quality out of the product. Corporations are corporations to make money, not to provide a product out of the goodness of their heart. I think it's wishful thinking at best to think that being forced to buy a company's product is somehow going to make it a better and cheaper product. This entire notion is utterly ridiculous. You're putting a weird faith where none should be or has been earned.

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Originally Posted by Jarvan

They also don't have an insane obesity rate. As of 2009 it wasn't even 5%. Since Obesity in the US is about 60% of healthcare costs (both directly, and indirectly) I can see why China has MUCH lower costs.

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Well fuck man, do you think our obesity rate would be so high if we weren't inhaling GMOs and being paid to stay home and sit on our ass. At one point, people were being paid disability for their drug and alcohol issues. So you mean I will get 60% of my income without working so I can sit at home and get high and play GS all day?! Fuck. Sign me up.

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Originally Posted by Wrathbringer

In the United States, Medicare is a national social insurance program, administered by the U.S. federal government since 1965, that guarantees access to health insurance for Americans aged 65 and older and younger people with disabilities as well as people with end stage renal disease (Medicare.gov, 2012) and persons with Lou Gehrig’s Disease. As a social insurance program, Medicare spreads the financial risk associated with illness across society to protect everyone.

That's from Wiki. We've been into socialized medicine for nearly 50 years. It's not new.

The choice to buy anything they want? Even 64 oz Cokes, assault weapons, etc...? Hmm. And by implication, the choice to not buy anything they want, right? You sure you're a Democrat and in favor of the ACA, Back?

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And... you can go bankrupt on Medicare. Since it has no OOP maximum. Ever.

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Originally Posted by NinjasLeadTheWay

I'm so confused. So Back doesn't support the ACA now and my car insurance analogy somehow wasn't comparable. This is the last time I leave a thread to sleep.

I still maintain that being forced to buy a product through legislation written by companies providing that product is a crooked and underhanded way to do things. This will not make the product cheaper. This will make it more expensive as these companies are already raising prices and taking a lot of the quality out of the product. Corporations are corporations to make money, not to provide a product out of the goodness of their heart. I think it's wishful thinking at best to think that being forced to buy a company's product is somehow going to make it a better and cheaper product. This entire notion is utterly ridiculous. You're putting a weird faith where none should be or has been earned.

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Back will point out that the increase in premium prices went down a lot this year due to the ACA... which is true. HHS said that companies couldn't increase premiums by more then 10% without "review" by an independent (HA!) review board.

Back talks about people having *equal* healthcare.

But how can it be equal if some people exercise and are otherwise healthy, and other people eat themselves to 300+ lbs, and constant doctor/hospital visits?

*Why* should the former group be subsiding the healthcare cost of the later?

*WHY* ?!!?

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Originally Posted by Atlanteax

Back talks about people having *equal* healthcare.

But how can it be equal if some people exercise and are otherwise healthy, and other people eat themselves to 300+ lbs, and constant doctor/hospital visits?

*Why* should the former group be subsiding the healthcare cost of the later?

*WHY* ?!!?

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Because its' the Moral thing to do. Duh.

Back, I am keeping this. It's awesome. Thanks!

Attachment 5926

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Originally Posted by Tgo01

"Flood the market with buyers"? Only around 15% of Americans are uninsured, how do you "flood the market" when 85% of the people are already purchasing goods from said market?

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An 18% increase in buyers is pretty significant. Imagine you ran a restaurant that averaged 85 customers per lunch hour, but one day 300,000,000 buy insurance. See? Flooded.

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Originally Posted by NinjasLeadtheWay

And I have to do this because there are people out there who can't afford their own insurance so I have to help them pay for it.

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After all, we are living in a society here. Of course you would prefer if you didn't have to pay for anything, but that does not turn out to be a practical basis for society.

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But not everyone has healthcare now, hell, some people don't want it.

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The only consent that matters is informed consent. People cannot make an informed decision about their healthcare needs because our prognostic technology is not that advanced.

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I think in a very misguided effort to promote "fairness" they've made things very unfair. The people that work have to pay for those that don't.

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This has been true for at least a hundred years.

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Originally Posted by Jarvan

I still can't believe you think that if minimum wage is say 15 an hour, that prices won't go up for every single thing we buy. Yes, including insurance.

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Unusual inflation has never followed minimum wage increases before, why would it now?

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Or are you saying that if Company A has to double it's wage's Company A will just make less profit and NOT increase it's end product price?

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Historically, it turns out that on average they don't. Whether they can, should, or want to, I can't tell you. All I can tell you is the empirical fact: minimum wage increases have no correlation with inflation.

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Originally Posted by AnticorRifling

Again, do you think people have the right to choice buy into this healthcare without fear of repercussion based on their choice or do you feel they have no choice and must be required to do so or be penalized?

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You don't have the right to drive without a seatbelt, and you can be penalized for not doing so. Same principle.

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Originally Posted by zhelas

The United States is way too big for the central government to run everything efficiently.

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It works for the military. Why not for health insurance?