Tyranny of the ATF

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Originally Posted by ~Rocktar~

Yeah, almost all of the current firearm cases in the courts today should have been settled by SCOTUS decisions back in the 1800s when they first came up. But nooooooooo, cowardly courts not wanting to take a position and clarifying the law along with shitbag legislators not stepping up. Just like most things, fail to address it the first time, it causes problems over and over again.

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Gun control is rooted in the racist suppression of the rights of minorities, and that took us down a dark path.

Dredd Scott vs Sandford: Chief Justice Roger Taney argued that one reason Black people could not be citizens under the Constitution was that it “would give to persons of the negro race” the right “to keep and carry arms wherever they went.”

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Originally Posted by Realk

Not my hill not my fight, but I'll about the fact that it's clearly an overstep and allowing an inch they will eventually go a mile.

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It’s too bad John Cornyn either didn’t understand this or doesn’t care. Can’t wait to vote out that rhino bastard in 2027.

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

Gun control is rooted in the racist suppression of the rights of minorities, and that took us down a dark path.

Dredd Scott vs Sandford: Chief Justice Roger Taney argued that one reason Black people could not be citizens under the Constitution was that it “would give to persons of the negro race” the right “to keep and carry arms wherever they went.”

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And SUPRISE, the racist Democrats that have been on the side of racism and oppression of the poor are STILL using it to oppress minorities, women and the poor.

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

You didn’t say registry of arms dealers. You said registry of arms sales.

Regarding the illegality of the ATF changing the definition of a dealer & making a new rule:

1) Bruen vs NY State Pistol Association: This restriction does not meet the standard of having the history, text, or tradition at the time the Bill of Rights was ratified.

2) Sackett vs EPA: This decision effectively ended the reliance of chevron deference doctrine that bureaucratic agencies can make up their own interpretation of the law & implement their own rules. The courts have the ultimate authority to interpret laws written by Congress, not the ATF.

We’ll see it play out in the courts. It just takes time.

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You're now arguing that because two other unrelated rulings, one on concealed and carry, the other unrelated to firearms whatsoever is the basis that ATF requiring additional dealer registration is unconstitutional? That's a stretch, but as you pointed out we'll see how that argument plays out if it is actually heard before the Court with that justification.

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Originally Posted by Realk

Not my hill not my fight, but I'll about the fact that it's clearly an overstep and allowing an inch they will eventually go a mile.

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Seran unironically believes that the government has integrity and good intentions and would never deceive anyone or overstep their boundaries. He thinks big government, at least when controlled by democrats, is everything that is pure and good and he believes literally everything they say.

It's because he's a ginormous retard.

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

Maybe I want to buy one or more guns from my neighbor. This certainly makes that process more difficult. That’s an infringement. It’s really that simple.

What this is really about is the government wants to track and know who owns what firearm. That is why they previously went after “ghost guns” and that is why they are doing this. It has nothing to do with background checks, or preventing crime, or any of that. Gun control is about control, and it should be alarming to us all.

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Maybe I want to get a gun from a neighbor, and what? You seem to be missing the point. This law doesn’t stop you or infringe on your ability to get a gun at all. You can go to the store and get a gun. Zero issues.

The problem seems to be for you, is “I want to get a gun from a neighbor, and I’m upset that I actually have to follow the same procedure that it would take to buy a gun from a store”

You and others sit here and say we need to keep guns out of people with mental issues or ones that have felonies, and this rule closes a major loophole for them to acquire guns without any checks.

So what happens when some dude with a mental issue buys a gun from a private citizen because he got turned down at a regular store and goes on a rampage at a school? Your argument of we need to keep the guns out of the hands of people with mental problems, won’t work anymore.

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Originally Posted by Solkern

Maybe I want to get a gun from a neighbor, and what? You seem to be missing the point. This law doesn’t stop you or infringe on your ability to get a gun at all. You can go to the store and get a gun. Zero issues.

The problem seems to be for you, is “I want to get a gun from a neighbor, and I’m upset that I actually have to follow the same procedure that it would take to buy a gun from a store”

You and others sit here and say we need to keep guns out of people with mental issues or ones that have felonies, and this rule closes a major loophole for them to acquire guns without any checks.

So what happens when some dude with a mental issue buys a gun from a private citizen because he got turned down at a regular store and goes on a rampage at a school? Your argument of we need to keep the guns out of the hands of people with mental problems, won’t work anymore.

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You should never, ever own a gun.

Period.

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Originally Posted by Solkern

Maybe I want to get a gun from a neighbor, and what? You seem to be missing the point. This law doesn’t stop you or infringe on your ability to get a gun at all. You can go to the store and get a gun. Zero issues.

The problem seems to be for you, is “I want to get a gun from a neighbor, and I’m upset that I actually have to follow the same procedure that it would take to buy a gun from a store”

You and others sit here and say we need to keep guns out of people with mental issues or ones that have felonies, and this rule closes a major loophole for them to acquire guns without any checks.

So what happens when some dude with a mental issue buys a gun from a private citizen because he got turned down at a regular store and goes on a rampage at a school? Your argument of we need to keep the guns out of the hands of people with mental problems, won’t work anymore.

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Come on Solkern. You’re smart and reasonable. We may not agree on everything but you understand that making it so that exercising a right more difficult & cumbersome is infringement. You answered it yourself when you acknowledged it’s more of a pain in the ass.

If some bureaucrats came up with a new rule that voting in a federal election requires physical voter registration to get a card, no mail in ballots, a literacy test, the requirement of some BS government mandated voter safety class, paying a tax, a waiting period, etc. in an effort to (possibly) prevent voter fraud…you would object. Why are you ok with those infringements on one constitutional right but not others?

I hate unspeakable acts of violence and mass shootings just as much as you do. We’re both parents. I’m all for keeping guns out of the hands of criminals & the mentally ill, but I WILL NOT sacrifice our God-given constitutionally protected rights. They need to find a way to accomplish keeping guns out of the hands of the bad guys (and actually prosecuting criminals when they do violate the law) instead of the answer always being to chip away at more of the good guys’ freedom.

A private individual selling some of his guns to another private individual (with no knowledge or reason to believe the buyer is a felon or mentally ill) doesn’t have the resources to do a NAICS check. They shouldn’t have to register as a FFL just to sell some of their personal property. Forcing them to do so is clearly an infringement and overstep. What is worse is that this is the ATF creating a new rule, not Congress.

To answer your question, you know what they can do? Chicago has double digit gun homicides by gang bangers every week. Instead of fucking with law abiding Americans, why don’t they do some real law enforcement work and bust those thugs engaged in criminal activity? Go confiscate their guns. You have my full support in that.

I believe, almost every school shooting/mass shooting in recent years has been performed with guns bought legally from a store not at P2P transaction. So that negates idea of that buying something from your Neighbor leads to shootings.

Or kept unsecure, but was initially purchased legally and removed by bad gun owners.

What if I want to give my firearms to a family member, does that also require more paperwork?