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Bingo.Quote:
Originally posted by Ilvane
Some of these attacks are pathetic and sad, and the simple truth is they are still angry that Kerry came back after the war and protested. Plain and simple.
...
They have nothing else to run on, so they resort to personal attacks.
Raven
Never saw it actually. What happened?Quote:
Originally posted by Hulkein
Exactly. Take Saving Private Ryan for example. Shows what happens when you let the enemy go.
Raven
Here's what I see: Captain supports Kerry running for Senate.Quote:
Originally posted by Ilvane
Wait Jack..he came and was campaigning with Kerry in 1996, said Kerry deserved his medal, and then changed his mind and said that Kerry didn't deserve his medal, then said he did deserve his medal, and he had made a mistake, then said he didn't deserve his medal again, and signed another affidafit.
Kerry campaigns for the Presidency.
Captain has a chat with a number of other guys who Kerry and he served with.
Captain changes his public stance on Kerry.
Boston Globe article is fabricated, Captain maintains his stance on Kerry.
Seems reliable to me.
They win a battle, kill all of the Germans but one guy, and instead of killing him the one interpreter begs for his life so they release him.Quote:
Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Never saw it actually. What happened?
Raven
Later in the movie during a battle in a city he sneaks up behind one of the main characters and stabs him to death.
[Edited on 8-8-2004 by Hulkein]
I don't disagree that shooting the man was the best course of action. Writing himself up for a Silver Star for doing so? What is above and beyond the call of duty in this act? Where did he put his own life in danger? He should have been relived of command of his boat for it. He grounded his swift boat, jumped off the bow to chase down a wounded man, and shot him. He went against the standing Orders for Swift Boats by doing so. Grounding your boat, stopping your movement, endangers the boat, and it's crew. A Swift Boat relied on it's speed and manuverability for survival. Grounding the boat eliminates both.
That's for his superiors to decide. They obviously decided in favor of him.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp
No, snopes certainly isn't the definitive resource. But it is a handy summary. And who should I listen to? The testimony of people who actually served with him on his boat or the ones who didn't who are angry that he broke the military's equivalent of the 'blue wall of silence'?
I can see how those who support Bush absolutely must believe Kerry didn't do shit in Viet Nam. One of the few ways to make Bush look good is to try to bring Kerry down to a lower level. Gods know there's nothing else in his favor.
Raven
Actually, I'll amend that statement. Bush also did excellently with Afghanistan. And had he stayed on the program in taking down Al Quaeda instead of goign into Iraq, he would probably be a shoe in for reelection. Not that I'd like him but I wouldn't quite loathe him as much as I do.
[Edited on 8-8-2004 by Ravenstorm]
From CNN:
Playing golf
Inundated with calls to verify the statement, Elliott grew media shy and said through his wife he would not talk. Earlier in the day, Mrs. Elliott said her husband was playing golf and would call back when he returned in the afternoon.
Elliott later issued another affidavit -- witnessed and notarized -- this time saying he was misquoted by the Globe and reaffirming his belief that Kerry has "not been honest about what happened in Vietnam."
Elliott also wrote: "Had I known the facts, I would not have recommended Kerry for the Silver Star for simply pursuing and dispatching a single wounded, fleeing Viet Cong."
Martin Baron, editor of The Boston Globe, said in a statement: "Regarding George Elliott's statements on John Kerry's military service, which ran in the Globe this morning, the Globe stands by the article. The quotes attributed to Mr. Elliott were on the record and absolutely accurate."
Next week the group will step up its campaign against the candidate with a book, "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry."
Veterans supporting Kerry called the ad a "smear campaign" and two whose lives were saved by Kerry hit back.
"What these people have said is not true and a lot of it is grossly inaccurate," said James Rassmann, who has appeared at many campaign appearances with the candidate.
"These gentlemen appear to be making this up as they go along and they are not keeping their stories straight," he said.
Fred Short, who also served with Kerry, said the ad shows "The Bush campaign has nothing to talk about, so they resort to these dirty tricks."
Meanwhile Republican Sen. John McCain, another Vietnam veteran, called the attack dishonorable and dishonest.
The Bush administration distanced itself from the advertisement Thursday but did not condemn it. "We have not and we will not question Sen. Kerry's service in Vietnam," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan.
Boston Globe is to Democrats as the Drudge Report is to the Republicans. Neither one should be used as a source.
The difference is.. the Boston Globe actually denies it political affiliation and thus is a bigger fraud.
And Celtic.. you are wasting your breath. Far too many people are living in the 9-10-01 world and are either oblivious or ignorant of the way the world works today.
George Elliot
Was Elliott Honest in 1996 When He Said This of Kerry?
"The fact that he chased an armed enemy down is not something not to be looked down upon but it was an act of courage. And the whole outfit served with honor..."[T]here was no question that it was above and beyond anything that we had seen down there in that case at that time frame...It just so happened that this one was so outstanding that the Silver Star was eventually awarded." [Kerry Press Conference, 10/27/96]
In 1969, Elliott Wrote This to Describe John Kerry's Fitness as a SWIFT Boat Commander
"In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, LTJG Kerry was unsurpassed. He constantly reviewed tactics and lessons learned in river operations and applied his experience at every opportunity. On one occasion, while in tactical command of a three boat operation his units were taken under fire from ambush. LTJG Kerry rapidly assessed the situation and ordered his units to turn directly into the ambush. This decision resulted in routing the attackers with several KIA. LTJG Kerry emerges as the acknowledged leader in his peer group. His bearing and appearance are above reproach. He has of his own volition learned the Vietnamese language and is instrumental in the successful Vietnamese training program. During the period of this report LTJG Kerry has been awarded the Silver Star medal, the Bronze Star medal, the Purple Heart medal (2nd and 3rd awards)."[U.S. Navy, Officer Fitness Report signed by George Elliott; 18, Dec 1969]
Elliott on Presenting Kerry the Silver Star: He Went "Above & Beyond the Call of Duty."
"The [Silver Star] ceremony [for John Kerry] was meant to be a morale booster,' Commander George Elliot recalled. 'We were trying to pay tribute to Kerry and the others for going above and beyond the call of duty. The Silver Star is always a big deal." [Tour of Duty, 2004, Brinkley; p. 294]
Louis Letson - "I know John Kerry is lying about his first purple heart, because I treated him for that injury."
Letson Offers NO PROOF He Treated Kerry.
Despite Letson's claims to have treated Kerry, he is not listed on any document as having treated Kerry after the 12/2/68 firefight. Offering only an account of dates and places-which is readily available in Kerry's biography and media accounts-Lester has produced nothing to verify his treatment of Kerry.
Another Doctor Signed Kerry's Sick Call Sheet.
Regarding Dr. Letson's recollection of Mr. Kerry's wound, Michael Meehan, a campaign spokesman, noted that a different person, J. C. Carreon, had signed the "sick call sheet" summarizing treatment of the injury, and asked, "Who is this guy? How do we know that he was the doctor who treated him?" The aides produced several veterans to attest to Mr. Kerry's bona fides. [New York Times, 5/4/04]
Letson Didn't Record His Memories of Vietnam Until Kerry's Emergence in 2003.
"Letson says that last year, as the Democratic campaign began to heat up, he told friends that he remembered treating one of the candidates many years ago. In response to their questions, Letson says, he wrote down his recollections of the time." [National Review Online, 5/4/04]