Russia Investigation Heating Up

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Originally Posted by time4fun

Yes it was. 35 years ago. Russia does not have an inherent right to take over sovereign nations because they were once their territory.

And candidly, you *are* taking sides. You're trying to provide a defense of Russia's actions right now- not condemning them. And even if you weren't- the notion of "not taking a side" in this is flabbergasting.

What happened to you? You're sitting here failing to condemn a dictator who is about to destroy a democratic country and force everyone there to live under authoritarian rule. Tucker Carlson brought Orban- the Hungarian dictator who destroyed their democracy- to his show and spent a week doing PR for him- even telling viewers that Hungary was what freedom looks like- and you just waved your hand dismissively at it.

The President you supported tried to tell you that an elected official (Pence) had a right to overturn the results of his own election because he didn't win, and the party you vote for has been trying (and succeeding in some cases) in passing legislation that lets elected officials boot out nonpartisan elections officials to replace them with someone of their choosing if they don't like the results of an election.

An angry mob stormed the US Capitol to stop the certification of a free and fair election-forcing Congress to hide behind barricaded doors and resulting in the deaths and serious injuries of the officers there. And you've one nothing but defend the sitting US President- who had lost that election- who brought them to DC and pointed them to the Capitol building telling them it was their last chance to save their country.

And now you're condemning NATO- which has been trying to stop Russia from destroying European democracies and further invading free countries.

At what point do you look at yourself in the mirror and start to question if you're on the right side?

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Taking a neutral opinion would suggest that Russia hasn't been the aggressor. ~ Me/Neveragain

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^^^^ That's what "questioning if you're on the right side" looks like.^^^^

Since 1945 show me on any of those maps where Russia has taken anything that wasn't theirs before the German invasion. I can certainly point out areas that were not part of NATO after 1945 that were part of Russia before the German invasion.

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Originally Posted by Seran

Putin's propaganda isn't correct.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseih/2020/0...inian-history/

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I'm not using "Putins" propaganda. I'm looking at maps that span the past century and older.

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Originally Posted by Neveragain

^^^^ That's what "questioning if you're on the right side" looks like.^^^^

Since 1945 show me on any of those maps where Russia has taken anything that wasn't theirs before the German invasion. I can certainly point out areas that were not part of NATO after 1945 that were part of Russia before the German invasion.

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So, once you "own" territory, you have the right to re-claim it at any point in time?

Tell me that's not the entire premise of your argument here.

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

So, once you "own" territory, you have the right to re-claim it at any point in time?

Tell me that's not the entire premise of your argument here.

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Can you tell me at what point and time it's OK to take it in the first place?

Tell me you're not arguing that Germany was just in invading Russia?

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Originally Posted by Neveragain

Can you tell me at what point and time it's OK to take it in the first place?

Tell me you're not arguing that Germany was just in invading Russia?

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Asking two questions isn't answering a question.

At all.

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Originally Posted by Parkbandit

Asking two questions isn't answering a question.

At all.

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I think it does answer your question.

https://c.tenor.com/w70bjnITVaYAAAAM...ro-why-not.gif

Wow, look at all these dudes siding with communists. If every fucking Russian in Russia died in their sleep tonight, I wouldn't care.

Fuck those dudes.

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Originally Posted by Neveragain

I'm not using "Putins" propaganda. I'm looking at maps that span the past century and older.

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Any any point in time any nation you can think of has belonged to someone else, was called something else or was conquered. Your saying that present day Ukraine, which existed before the Russian or Ukrainian countries existed is by right Russian due to at one point occupied country by way of being a Soviet Bloc member. This is materially false and in no way conveys a right to violation of its sovereign borders by Putin's desire to create a new Soviet Empire.

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Originally Posted by Seran

Any any point in time any nation you can think of has belonged to someone else, was called something else or was conquered. Your saying that present day Ukraine, which existed before the Russian or Ukrainian countries existed is by right Russian due to at one point occupied country by way of being a Soviet Bloc member. This is materially false and in no way conveys a right to violation of its sovereign borders by Putin's desire to create a new Soviet Empire.

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I'm glad that we agree that the US has no business in backing either side, no business in placing sanctions, no business arming either side and no business in further funding NATO.

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Originally Posted by Neveragain

I'm glad that we agree that the US has no business in backing either side, no business in placing sanctions, no business arming either side and no business in further funding NATO.

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Wow, you got all that out of me saying Russia is invading a sovereign state? Let's try again. The world by on large takes the side of the victim of this baseless aggression, Ukraine. Providing arms to the Ukrainian military is a decision made by multiple governments, including ours. I support this action. Our government does not support going to war against Russia, nor do most of us. But using sanctions to set the Russian economy back to the stone age is welcome.