Trump Bans Transgenders from the Military

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Originally Posted by hello

Honestly, I think Gelston would affect combat readiness what with his 3 1/2 pull ups.. seriously how's he gonna drag me out of that fighting hole; we'll just both end up dead.

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I'd agree if I ever only did that many while I was in. I generally did about 22. I'm back up to 18 now. Thanks for playing.

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Originally Posted by Gelston

I'd agree if I ever only did that many while I was in. I generally did about 22. I'm back up to 18 now. Thanks for playing.

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Tisket buff as fuck

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Originally Posted by Taernath

Tisket buff as fuck

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These are the only pull ups I can do:

Attachment 8765

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Originally Posted by time4fun

Remember though- trans people are already serving openly in the military. The ban was lifted almost a year ago. Trump isn't continuing a ban, he's reinstating it. That's never happened before. It would be like suddenly announcing that LGB people or black people can no longer serve in the military- horrific and baseless.

We're not in hypothetical territory here. We already know how it's going, and it's going very, very well. The military asked for another 6 months to continue to study before they started openly recruiting transmen and transwoman into the military because they were tryiing to figure out how those people were being treated. There was no question about where they were going with the ban- it wasn't slated to return. They just wanted to be sure they were giving proper support and sensitivity training to the military.

Several studies were done, and none of the ones released publicly showed any significant impact on combat readiness.

And watching a President actively pick out a group that won some civil rights and just stripping them for political play should be incredibly offensive and unnerving for anyone watching.

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I'd love to read some of these studies, because what I've read goes fairly in depth about the anxiety, depression and (in some cases) bouts of agoraphobia associated with pre-op hormone therapy. While I'm never going to stand up and say it's OK to segregate, at the end of the day I think a case can be made where a pre-op transgender person who's going through hormonal therapy probably shouldn't be the one holding the gun protecting my back. Not because he/she is incapable of it, but because they're judgement and psyche may be compromised.

Again, let me restate, I have no issue with post-op transgender or those transgender who have no intention of surgery, in the military. They're exactly the same as anyone else. I'm talking about a specific subset of the transgender population. With little to no experience with transgender people (there are none in my RL circle of friends), I can only surmise that gender reassignment surgery is comparable to other major surgeries which would make you ineligible for military service.

I also feel like this is a lot like the whole transgender bathroom issue. I get it, people feel like they should be able to use the facilities they identify with. We make a big case for allowing it, we harangue anyone against it to the point of violence... and throughout all of it, if you're a woman (for example) who feels extremely uncomfortable being in a bathroom with someone who, biologically is a male... you have no recourse but to deal with it. Because your rights are trumped by the hot-button issue of the day.

It should be up to the troops if they feel comfortable in the situation because they're the ones putting their lives on the line.

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Originally Posted by Back

This whole thing can't be serious. It's just intended to distract everyone from the real issue of Trump's campaign colluding with the Russians and rigging the election.

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Actually it's to distract people from the fact that Al Bundy scored four touchdowns in one game.

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Originally Posted by Tisket

These are the only pull ups I can do:

Attachment 8765

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http://i.imgur.com/w5ST2e4.gif

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Originally Posted by Jhynnifer

I'd love to read some of these studies, because what I've read goes fairly in depth about the anxiety, depression and (in some cases) bouts of agoraphobia associated with pre-op hormone therapy. While I'm never going to stand up and say it's OK to segregate, at the end of the day I think a case can be made where a pre-op transgender person who's going through hormonal therapy probably shouldn't be the one holding the gun protecting my back. Not because he/she is incapable of it, but because they're judgement and psyche may be compromised.

Again, let me restate, I have no issue with post-op transgender or those transgender who have no intention of surgery, in the military. They're exactly the same as anyone else. I'm talking about a specific subset of the transgender population. With little to no experience with transgender people (there are none in my RL circle of friends), I can only surmise that gender reassignment surgery is comparable to other major surgeries which would make you ineligible for military service.

I also feel like this is a lot like the whole transgender bathroom issue. I get it, people feel like they should be able to use the facilities they identify with. We make a big case for allowing it, we harangue anyone against it to the point of violence... and throughout all of it, if you're a woman (for example) who feels extremely uncomfortable being in a bathroom with someone who, biologically is a male... you have no recourse but to deal with it. Because your rights are trumped by the hot-button issue of the day.

It should be up to the troops if they feel comfortable in the situation because they're the ones putting their lives on the line.

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No dog in this fight but Goddamnit this point is so on target.

It's only a matter of time before the left has to decide between feminism and trans-whatever as to who's more equal, and then they'll cannibalize each other while ISIS laughs at them both for doing their work for them.

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Originally Posted by Ltlprprincess

No dog in this fight.

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Why do you hate Michael Vick?

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Originally Posted by Jhynnifer

I'd love to read some of these studies, because what I've read goes fairly in depth about the anxiety, depression and (in some cases) bouts of agoraphobia associated with pre-op hormone therapy. While I'm never going to stand up and say it's OK to segregate, at the end of the day I think a case can be made where a pre-op transgender person who's going through hormonal therapy probably shouldn't be the one holding the gun protecting my back. Not because he/she is incapable of it, but because they're judgement and psyche may be compromised.

Again, let me restate, I have no issue with post-op transgender or those transgender who have no intention of surgery, in the military. They're exactly the same as anyone else. I'm talking about a specific subset of the transgender population. With little to no experience with transgender people (there are none in my RL circle of friends), I can only surmise that gender reassignment surgery is comparable to other major surgeries which would make you ineligible for military service.

I also feel like this is a lot like the whole transgender bathroom issue. I get it, people feel like they should be able to use the facilities they identify with. We make a big case for allowing it, we harangue anyone against it to the point of violence... and throughout all of it, if you're a woman (for example) who feels extremely uncomfortable being in a bathroom with someone who, biologically is a male... you have no recourse but to deal with it. Because your rights are trumped by the hot-button issue of the day.

It should be up to the troops if they feel comfortable in the situation because they're the ones putting their lives on the line.

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You're totally right to point out that transitioning isn't easy, and there's often a post-op bout of depression that hits. But it's generally a result of how many years and sacrifices we make someone endure to get to the point of being allowed to transition. If we make that process easier, provide more support, we can eliminate that stage. Making sure the military as an employer is more supportive would be a big step for these folks.

RAND has one of the public studies that the Military commissioned. It's a great read if you can get the full copy. I linked their findings- which more or less get you to the same point but faster.

Pulling out big picture though- every concern you listed for transitioning is also a concern for childbirth. But women aren't banned from entering the military (any more) because we may decide to have children one day. The military just makes allowances for early motherhood because that mother brings value to her job before and after childbirth that isn't erased by a few tough weeks that may or may not happen in between.

And, again, the military already decided to lift the ban almost a year ago. The people you're talking about DID get to make the call, and they said they wanted trans people to be able to serve in the miitary.

This decision to reinstate the ban didn't come from the military- it came from the President and the people around him.

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Originally Posted by time4fun

But it's generally a result of how many years and sacrifices we make someone endure to get to the point of being allowed to transition. If we make that process easier, provide more support, we can eliminate that stage.

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Do you have a source on this or you just relying on your feels? The idea that transgenders only deal with anxiety and depression during their hormone therapy is because people are meanie heads sounds straight up bullshit.

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Originally Posted by time4fun

Pulling out big picture though- every concern you listed for transitioning is also a concern for childbirth. But women aren't banned from entering the military (any more) because we may decide to have children one day. The military just makes allowances for early motherhood because that mother brings value to her job before and after childbirth that isn't erased by a few tough weeks that may or may not happen in between.

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You're actually not making a very good case for your argument here. I am almost certain that if a pregnant woman went to enlist, or if the military knows they plan on getting pregnant soon, they will turn them away. No, there isn't a blanket ban on all women because not all women plan on getting pregnant while they are in the military.

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Originally Posted by time4fun

The people you're talking about DID get to make the call, and they said they wanted trans people to be able to serve in the miitary.

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So Trump didn't consult with the generals and military commanders and one day just said "Meh, I hate them trannies."

Come on. I know you hate Trump and all, but this is silly even for you.