Terrorists break into US Capitol Building

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Originally Posted by Loim

Decades/centuries of child sex abuse went on and was covered up and never talked about, of course you weren't happy, but were Christians were out protesting against the church in massive droves to prevent it? did they stop donating money to the church, or stop attending mass until the issue was resolved? Nope, for decades and decades, to this very day, they still proudly state their support for the Church and call themselves Christians/Catholics. If you don't think people who support equality voice their displeasure at crimes committed in the name of protest, I apologize that your perspective is from a place of extremely one-sided ignorance. Look at the hyperbole you use when discussing one side vs. the other, BLM DID EVERYTHING BAD, CATHOLICS DID EVERYTHING RIGHT AND WERE ALWAYS TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING. You have, in my estimation, an extremely black and white view of the world that doesn't allow for nuance at all, and this stupid perspective basically informs everything you think. The real world is significantly more complicated than you want it to be so hard so you can feel like you're on the side of good and can look down on the evil democrats, black people, etc. and root for their humiliation and destruction, like they're your enemies, not just fellow human beings with which you disagree with. There are good Catholics and good Christians, the church can do a lot of good things, but the church CAN do some bad things. It also has been exploited for greed and criminality for centuries. Look at the mansions megachurch pastors have. The private planes. The sex scandals those people have. It's all well documented, and you don't see 1/100th of the uproar from Christians from their own faith being exploited than you do seeing them attack BLM for similar even if you insist that they totally hold their own accountable.

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Organized religion, which includes Christianity/the Catholic Church/etc., much like BLM the political organization (not to be confused with BLM the movement), is a self serving corrupt racket.

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

Oh you think I’m Dreaven? That’s funny.

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Seran thinks everyone on here who isn't a raging leftist retard is Dreaven. He's extremely dumb and chronically butthurt.

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Originally Posted by Tgo01

"and call themselves Christians/Catholics."

That wasn't you saying "No TRUE Christian/Catholic would still support the church after this"?

Please.

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I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying they were still proud to call themselves Christians despite the fact some Christians were outed as bad people, just like many BLM supporters still support the concept of BLM even if some people who claim to represent BLM did bad things. You misunderstood, which is fine, I will try to be more clear in future conversations.

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Originally Posted by Loim

I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying they were still proud to call themselves Christians despite the fact some Christians were outed as bad people, just like many BLM supporters still support the concept of BLM even if some people who claim to represent BLM did bad things. You misunderstood, which is fine, I will try to be more clear in future conversations.

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Okay that's great. So what again is the "concept" of BLM? And can you point to any inherent and tangible good they have done for the world?

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

I like engaging in dialogue with somebody who has a different point of view.

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Me too!

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

Systemic = of or relating to an entire system. So systemic racism = racism is built into our entire system of America. If you believe in that nonsense…than you must think America is evil at its core and is beyond redemption in its current form. I absolutely reject that notion.

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Must I? I definitely don't think it's beyond redemption, but it's certainly evil. Our nation was built on the backs of slaves and stolen from the natives that had lived here for a thousand years. Our nation has a really long history of doing things that are objectively evil. Like....so many things that I could list off the top of my head, but won't for brevity's sake. I have bloodscrip to earn!

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

I should clarify what I mean by Marxism is inherently authoritarian…. What I should have said is inherently statist, where government controls all aspects of our lives. It just so happens that every manifestation of Marxism (communist regimes and the like) have turned out to be authoritarian, and for good reason. You will always need some sort of supreme leader to define the goals of the state and central planning.

Just a few really bad things about Marxism…. You are being lied to and your emotions are being manipulated to hate the rich. The true enemy of Marxism is the middle class. Marxism doesn’t end class struggle. It puts power in the hands of a single political party and makes select bureaucrats the nobility / bourgeois, with everyone else the subservient proletariat. It’s political philosophy values collective groups over individual people. The political ideology fails to recognize that people serve their own interests. I can go on and on….

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Seems like you think I'm advocating full-blown Communism. There's a pretty big difference between that providing health care to everyone.

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

Listen I know you think that conservatives and/or libertarians are all illiterate hicks but I actually read Das Kapital and parts of the Communist Manifesto. Did you know Karl Marx never did a single day of hard work in his life? Did you know Bernie Sanders was kicked out of a hippie commune for not working? Just think about that for a moment…now how much of a lazy leech do you have to be to asked to leave a hippie commune for not contributing? These people are not the champions of the working class.

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I just said my brother was a Libertarian. I live in the south and have conservative friends. I don't hate my brother or any conservative because of their politics. I just wish they'd reconsider a lot of them.

And on Marx and Bernie: Needs citation. A quick search and I found a post that said Bernie was visiting the commune as a journalist and got kicked out because other people weren't working because they spent too much time talking politics with him. And on Marx:

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Marx did in fact maintain himself with considerable support from his wealthy friend and collaborator Frederick Engels, who was a big-time capitalist as well as a communist theoretician. Marx was unable to obtain employment in Germany because of his radical views. He did make whatever living he managed to make on his own as an independent journalist, which is in fact a job, including writing for American papers, as well as, in France and Germany in his youth, editing some of his own newspapers.

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Seems like CANCEL CULTURE has been around for a long time!

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

I don’t think all taxation is theft. Well I mean kinda I guess since it’s involuntary, but in a representative government some tax is justified and necessary. I’m not an anarchist…we need roads, national defense, I don’t think anyone needs to die from starvation, every child deserves an education, etc.
…. Redistribution of wealth through taxation, however, absolutely is theft.

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All taxation is redistribution of wealth. There's no way around that.

So the question becomes, where do you draw the line? How do you justify the military budget when people are literally starving in our country? When we have a HUGE problem of unhoused people in our country, a staggering portion of whom are veterans? When it is possible at all to go bankrupt due to medical debt?

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

There is this concept called merit & personal accountability for one’s choices which communists fail to grasp. White Joey who worked his ass off to get through school and became a doctor vs black Susan who skipped school, did a bunch of drugs, and joined a street gang…. I’m not looking to make those two equal. To have a free society, we must accept there will be inequality. Instead of focusing on the evil rich and making it a zero sum game (which it’s not), how about instead we focus on providing opportunities for those who are struggling without stealing to achieve that outcome?

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WOW...okay. I'll just say next time flip the races so it doesn't sound quite as awful.

No one is asking to eliminate inequality. Everyone know that's impossible. But we have the power, nay, the moral duty to make things a LOT less unequal across the board. Between black and white, rich and poor, etc. Saying "oh well inequality exists so we probably shouldn't do anything" is a pretty big cop-out.

There's a lot more I could say about supposed meritocracy and the value of hard work, but I'll leave you with this:

Jeff Bezos is the richest(or 2nd) person in the world because he came up with the idea of "book store but online". That's it. Literally anyone who likes books and knows about the internet could have invented that. It's not a genius idea, it's being at the right place at the right time. Oh, and also having rich friends whose money you can use to sell books at a loss to drive your competitors out of business :)

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Originally Posted by Tgo01

And can you point to any inherent and tangible good they have done for the world?

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Black people are asking the same question. Literally none of the money donated has gone to anything but political fronts.

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Originally Posted by Flap

Me too!



Must I? I definitely don't think it's beyond redemption, but it's certainly evil. Our nation was built on the backs of slaves and stolen from the natives that had lived here for a thousand years. Our nation has a really long history of doing things that are objectively evil. Like....so many things that I could list off the top of my head, but won't for brevity's sake. I have bloodscrip to earn!



Seems like you think I'm advocating full-blown Communism. There's a pretty big difference between that providing health care to everyone.



I just said my brother was a Libertarian. I live in the south and have conservative friends. I don't hate my brother or any conservative because of their politics. I just wish they'd reconsider a lot of them.

And on Marx and Bernie: Needs citation. A quick search and I found a post that said Bernie was visiting the commune as a journalist and got kicked out because other people weren't working because they spent too much time talking politics with him. And on Marx:



Seems like CANCEL CULTURE has been around for a long time!



All taxation is redistribution of wealth. There's no way around that.

So the question becomes, where do you draw the line? How do you justify the military budget when people are literally starving in our country? When we have a HUGE problem of unhoused people in our country, a staggering portion of whom are veterans? When it is possible at all to go bankrupt due to medical debt?



WOW...okay. I'll just say next time flip the races so it doesn't sound quite as awful.

No one is asking to eliminate inequality. Everyone know that's impossible. But we have the power, nay, the moral duty to make things a LOT less unequal across the board. Between black and white, rich and poor, etc. Saying "oh well inequality exists so we probably shouldn't do anything" is a pretty big cop-out.

There's a lot more I could say about supposed meritocracy and the value of hard work, but I'll leave you with this:

Jeff Bezos is the richest(or 2nd) person in the world because he came up with the idea of "book store but online". That's it. Literally anyone who likes books and knows about the internet could have invented that. It's not a genius idea, it's being at the right place at the right time. Oh, and also having rich friends whose money you can use to sell books at a loss to drive your competitors out of business :)

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I think you have a very distorted and sad view of history my friend. We have had some dark chapters in our nations history and not free of sin, but we have also done a lot of great things not just for our country but the entire world. You do realize that slavery existed in every corner of every society on planet earth until the 19th century, in which WE actively fought to end that both home and abroad, right? I know you have been taught to think a bunch of white Europeans just sailed to Africa, caught a bunch of black people and put them in chains, and then sailed them to America…but that’s not entirely true. I’m going to cite a short 5 minute video to an great mind of our time (and he happens to be black) that I would appreciate you watch. As to the American Indians…you do realize as well they were not some singular people? Tribes were constantly at war with each other. Guess what happened to the losers in such conflicts? They were butchered or enslaved and had their lands taken. America is the great experiment of freedom and a melting pot of diversity unrivaled by any other country on planet Earth. Don’t be ashamed.

I’m fine with some sort of social safety net, but it needs to be appropriately low. Housing is not a right from government. I’m more concerned about how to keep people out of poverty and bring them into the middle class than I am trying to make the poors life better. Let’s find a way to lift more people out of poverty into the middle class. This is the land of opportunity. We need a strong middle class, and that has been eroded. You get what you pay for with free health care. I’d much rather find ways to make healthcare affordable for all, and it’s a real problem that does need to be addressed.

On Jeff Bezos (or apply this to any other super rich tycoon like him)…I think you are discrediting both his achievements and contribution to society. And listen I’m no Bezos ass kisser so don’t take it that way…I’m concerned about monopoly hold he has on some markets. But pretty much the whole world uses his services in some way. It’s made our lives more convenient, we get quality products, fast shipping, on and on. Capitalism rewards such achievements. Don’t hate on someone simply because he did well.

https://youtu.be/3_3wyRaCD34

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

I think you have a very distorted and sad view of history my friend. We have had some dark chapters in our nations history and not free of sin, but we have also done a lot of great things not just for our country but the entire world. You do realize that slavery existed in every corner of every society on planet earth until the 19th century, in which WE actively fought to end that both home and abroad, right? I know you have been taught to think a bunch of white Europeans just sailed to Africa, caught a bunch of black people and put them in chains, and then sailed them to America…but that’s not entirely true. I’m going to cite a short 5 minute video to an great mind of our time (and he happens to be black) that I would appreciate you watch. As to the American Indians…you do realize as well they were not some singular people? Tribes were constantly at war with each other. Guess what happened to the losers in such conflicts? They were butchered or enslaved and had their lands taken. America is the great experiment of freedom and a melting pot of diversity unrivaled by any other country on planet Earth. Don’t be ashamed.

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Pause for a second here and think. You are trying to justify slavery. We had a literal war over ending it in this country. That doesn't really jive with our nation being the breakers of chains you're describing there.

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

I’m fine with some sort of social safety net, but it needs to be appropriately low. Housing is not a right from government. I’m more concerned about how to keep people out of poverty and bring them into the middle class than I am trying to make the poors life better. Let’s find a way to lift more people out of poverty into the middle class. This is the land of opportunity. We need a strong middle class, and that has been eroded. You get what you pay for with free health care. I’d much rather find ways to make healthcare affordable for all, and it’s a real problem that does need to be addressed.

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What better way can you think of to bring more people into the middle class than to use our tax dollars(that we're spending on endless wars and corrupt police) to provide for basic needs like health care, housing and food?

I'm glad that you at least agree that our society needs to be lifted from the bottom, but I'm confused as to why you think providing a baseline standard of living for everyone is a bad way to do that. That's the goal of all the so-called-Marxist suggestions from the left in our country.

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

On Jeff Bezos (or apply this to any other super rich tycoon like him)…I think you are discrediting both his achievements and contribution to society. And listen I’m no Bezos ass kisser so don’t take it that way…I’m concerned about monopoly hold he has on some markets. But pretty much the whole world uses his services in some way. It’s made our lives more convenient, we get quality products, fast shipping, on and on. Capitalism rewards such achievements. Don’t hate on someone simply because he did well.

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Yes, I am absolutely discrediting his achievements. They were attained unethically, and many of his workers exist in nightmare conditions where they're forced to pee in bottles to make quotas. Capitalism inherently drives competition. That's a good thing about capitalism! However, without checks(labor laws and unions) in place, competition causes horrible conditions for workers like what we see in Bezos's warehouses and...basically every fast food joint in the nation.

Yes, I still order from McDonald's and Amazon and yes that makes me a hypocrite, but we're not talking about whether or not I'm a piece of shit. I'll gladly pay increased taxes if it means we can have actual, strong social safety nets that force employers to give workers better conditions. However, I don't think increased taxes are necessary. Cut the military and police(oh my god defunding the police SO SCARY) budgets by half(THIS IS HYPERBOLE) and we can have all these things.

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Originally Posted by Suppressed Poet

I think you have a very distorted and sad view of history my friend. We have had some dark chapters in our nations history and not free of sin, but we have also done a lot of great things not just for our country but the entire world. You do realize that slavery existed in every corner of every society on planet earth until the 19th century, in which WE actively fought to end that both home and abroad, right? I know you have been taught to think a bunch of white Europeans just sailed to Africa, caught a bunch of black people and put them in chains, and then sailed them to America…but that’s not entirely true. I’m going to cite a short 5 minute video to an great mind of our time (and he happens to be black) that I would appreciate you watch. As to the American Indians…you do realize as well they were not some singular people? Tribes were constantly at war with each other. Guess what happened to the losers in such conflicts? They were butchered or enslaved and had their lands taken. America is the great experiment of freedom and a melting pot of diversity unrivaled by any other country on planet Earth. Don’t be ashamed.

I’m fine with some sort of social safety net, but it needs to be appropriately low. Housing is not a right from government. I’m more concerned about how to keep people out of poverty and bring them into the middle class than I am trying to make the poors life better. Let’s find a way to lift more people out of poverty into the middle class. This is the land of opportunity. We need a strong middle class, and that has been eroded. You get what you pay for with free health care. I’d much rather find ways to make healthcare affordable for all, and it’s a real problem that does need to be addressed.

On Jeff Bezos (or apply this to any other super rich tycoon like him)…I think you are discrediting both his achievements and contribution to society. And listen I’m no Bezos ass kisser so don’t take it that way…I’m concerned about monopoly hold he has on some markets. But pretty much the whole world uses his services in some way. It’s made our lives more convenient, we get quality products, fast shipping, on and on. Capitalism rewards such achievements. Don’t hate on someone simply because he did well.

https://youtu.be/3_3wyRaCD34

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Shocker, a conservative pushing a video blaming the “intelligencia" for today's problems. What's mind boggling is that you link a random video without providing any tie in with your argument. I'll presume that since you linked it at all, you support the ideas entirely.

So let's talk about it. Do you truly believe the idea that the United States being one of the last western civilizations to support and protect institutional slavery doesn't have an impact on race relations to this day? The author says, "Well everyone else did it too." as a way of explaining away the horrors of slavery and indentured servitude, as if that somehow makes it alright.

What is shocking is the author pointing out how good black families have it here today, as opposed to their African counterparts and ties that in to the opportunity slavery allowed their people to migrate. Do you truly believe that black people having a higher standard of living today makes slavery an acceptable sin?

Lastly, tying in single motherhood amung black families to welfare programs is disgusting. Your support of the idea that black men feel they can abandon their families due to social safety nets is morally repugnant and false.

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Originally Posted by Flap

Pause for a second here and think. You are trying to justify slavery. We had a literal war over ending it in this country. That doesn't really jive with our nation being the breakers of chains you're describing there.

What better way can you think of to bring more people into the middle class than to use our tax dollars(that we're spending on endless wars and corrupt police) to provide for basic needs like health care, housing and food?

I'm glad that you at least agree that our society needs to be lifted from the bottom, but I'm confused as to why you think providing a baseline standard of living for everyone is a bad way to do that. That's the goal of all the so-called-Marxist suggestions from the left in our country.



Yes, I am absolutely discrediting his achievements. They were attained unethically, and many of his workers exist in nightmare conditions where they're forced to pee in bottles to make quotas. Capitalism inherently drives competition. That's a good thing about capitalism! However, without checks(labor laws and unions) in place, competition causes horrible conditions for workers like what we see in Bezos's warehouses and...basically every fast food joint in the nation.

Yes, I still order from McDonald's and Amazon and yes that makes me a hypocrite, but we're not talking about whether or not I'm a piece of shit. I'll gladly pay increased taxes if it means we can have actual, strong social safety nets that force employers to give workers better conditions. However, I don't think increased taxes are necessary. Cut the military and police(oh my god defunding the police SO SCARY) budgets by half(THIS IS HYPERBOLE) and we can have all these things.

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I’m in no way justifying slavery. It was terrible and has had long lasting negative effects. That being said, the movie Roots is not an accurate historical documentary which is what you and many others have come to believe. What I’m saying is the idea you have about America exploiting minorities just so a bunch of fat capitalist pigs can stay rich is a false narrative. Slavery was not unique to the United States, and it is a fact that western nations ARE the reason it doesn’t exist widespread globally today. No other country on planet Earth has given people of all races/cultures/socioeconomic background the opportunity to improve the quality of their lives like America. Before you are so quick to judge America as Evil Imperialist Empire Inc., tell me where is your shining example of utopia in the world that’s more morally sound? You won’t be able to because human beings don’t just sit around a fire pit singing kumbaya in total peace & harmony…

Yes you order from McDonalds and Amazon just like I do as well as many more millions like us. That’s why those people are rich. Do you deny that Amazon provides a good service and products at a competitive price? He is rewarded accordingly. And guess what…Jeff Bezos doesn’t owe you or me a god damn thing. Nor does our government. I say this to you not as an insult, but that way of thinking in which you are entitled to someone else’s property & achievements is the mind of a poor person. You can’t make the poor better off through wealth redistribution. You can only bring down the wealth of everyone else to achieve that so called economic equality. Give a homeless person today $100,000 and a year from today he will be no better off. Give that same person an education, opportunities, & means to achieve a better quality of life for themselves & their family and they can sustain that improvement if they have the will to do so.

Serious question…why on earth do you want to rely on government (or anyone other than yourself) for better standards of living? Is it so trustworthy to you that you are willing to be their sheeple? Let’s be real…politicians are self serving assholes. Even if you do get everything you want, now government controls you. I don’t want that. I don’t need government to hold my hand.