Al Gore

//Actually, from press accounts, the official investigation did not begin until January 26th, 2000. 4 days after the inaugaration.//

Do you actually believe that it took them 4 days to get this together in the new administration and then *they* were the ones that organized the investigation?

I'm sure it was planned to be investigated during Clinton's term, and the fiasco after the election probably delayed it..:lol:

Um, anyway..1993 bombing happened and was planned during the Bush I administration. Do you really think it takes these guys a short time to plan?

//Even if 100% of what Al Gore is saying is true (which it isn't), why do it in public? Why not take care of things in private? The President is a liar? Get a committee together to investigate it. Don't blast it over TV.//

Why shouldn't he blast it on TV? Bush is more than willing to espouse blatent lies about what the last administration did without much thought. Why should Gore keep his mouth shut? If I were him, I would be pretty irritated too..especially since the election was decided in Jeb Bush's state, and the Supreme Court.

It's about time we had a discussion of what this country is doing. Everyone who speaks out about it--they are not any less patriotic, or American. In fact, this is more American than being President Bush's 'Yes' men or women.

I admire Al Gore for speaking out, and he is intelligent enough to do so. He couldn't even come close to matching Bush in a debate, but somehow--being intelligent was seen as a negative thing!! I don't get it.;)

-A

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especially since the election was decided in Jeb Bush's state, and the Supreme Court.

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I'd be pissed if they didn't let me steal an election too.

Yeah, exit polls said Gore won..then the big Democratic counties had people turned away..then suddenly there is no recount..then the Supreme Court decides?

Yep, sounds fair and the will of the people to me.

I still say, if that had happened in another country, we would be screaming that democracy was not in play!

-A

P.S. Artha, it's sad that you are such a Republican at a young age. Maybe you'll read some more and change your mind, someday.:) Of course, you have a right to your opinion.:yes:

Dear Ilvane,

Hi.

Signed,
The Electoral College

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Artha, it's sad that you are such a Republican at a young age.

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:)

[edit: I'm a conservative, but I'm not very extreme. I got a placement of (2.00, 1.28) on the political compass...which puts me next to Schroeder and Martin.]

[Edited on 5-29-2004 by Artha]

The Electoral College is a joke. I learned about it in Jr. High. There is only one other time in the history of the United States that an elctoral college vote decided over the popular vote.

Electoral College keeps Presidents for just going to states like California and New York and going.. OLOLOLOLOL!!1111111 STFU SMALL STATES UR GH3Y!11111

- Arkans

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Originally posted by Arkans
Electoral College keeps Presidents for just going to states like California and New York and going.. OLOLOLOLOL!!1111111 STFU SMALL STATES UR GH3Y!11111

- Arkans

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Pretty much...

Also, the United States is a Republic... NOT a Democracy.

Though the peons are lead to believe so. :duh:

Meanwhile, the Electoral College was intentionally designed in such a fashion where citizens are voicing their preference who the representatives (those who vote on behalf of the state) should vote for.

However those representatives that I referred to... their votes are the only real votes that count as while it is generally expected, not mandated that they vote along with the indicated preference of the citizens, they are able to change their votes to cast in favor of other candidates.

The Republican and Democrat parties counter this by handing picking representatives for each state, believing that those representatives will be loyal and vote accordingly.

I think there's been recorded instances of such representatives voting for other candidates instead of the one that they were "supposed to vote for."

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Bottom line, the Electoral College is in place to protect the citizens from themselves... with the assumption that the representatives are more educated and more political astute that the citizens, who the designers of the EC did not hold high regards for. :shrug:

But judging from American society, where stupid people obviously make up the vast majority... and it does seem that Americans are getting "dumber" over time... I have to predict that the EC will save this country one day from true chaos. :!:

Excellent points Ilvane. Contradicting Bobby's points which he used sources for with the 'do you really think' argument.

>> yep, sure did. Read his book, read Al Franken's book, read Dick Morris' book. All quite interesting reading. I also read Bob Woodward's book. Did you happen to read the last two or are you just into reading books that have views similar to yours? <grin> <<

As a matter of fact, I got tired of listening to other people interpret these books for me, so I have in fact read the Woodward, the Clarke, the Franken, the Morris, the Dean, the Karen Hughes books.

>> Yes!! That was a stab!! I'm sorry!! <<

Yep .. it was.

>> Seriously, one of our joys of being Americans is that we're able to keep open minds. Tell me, if you took your car to a mechanic, who told you that your finstock bearing needed replacing, then found out a month later there was no such thing, wouldn't you be wary? <<

Umm .. sure. Interesting straw man. Appropos to ??

>> I read Clarke's book. There were several sections that I had a lot of trouble believing. A little investigation got the answers. Is Dick Clarke a liar? In my humble opinion, yes, he is a liar. I have proof, the RNC has proof, even the 9/11 commission has proof. <<

Ok .. I'll bite. I'd like to see your proof that makes the entire Clarke book a complete lie. I certainly don't trust the RNC's data - hell they've already proven themselves to be viscious to anyone who suggests that the truth about the President and his administraion might be something other than what the RNC says it is - does the outing of a CIA operative ring any bells? Which leaves the 9-11 commission. The entire testimony is online. Please point the specific testimony out to me. And please if it's panel members saying "you've got a credibility problem" - you're going to have to try a bit harder.

Actually .. the last part of Clarke's book was his opinion on a lot of things. Some I agree with, some I don't. However, the bulk of the book is him describing things as he dealt with them. I'd love to see where any of that stuff has been shown to be false. Please -- educate me, since cleary your vastly superior intellect in these matters is far beyond my ability to understand.

But we can go back and forth on this ad nauseum. The bottom line here. The statement "CLinton and Gore had 8 years to get Osama." is patently false. It ignores the history of al Qaeda and Osama, and the political climate of the 90's.

-P

1) Ilvane:

[quote] "Um, anyway..1993 bombing happened and was planned during the Bush I administration. Do you really think it takes these guys a short time to plan?"

If you would go back and review what I said, you'll find that this information came out during the trial. So, yes, it takes these guys a short time to put something like that together.

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Why shouldn't he blast it on TV? Bush is more than willing to espouse blatent lies about what the last administration did without much thought. Why should Gore keep his mouth shut? If I were him, I would be pretty irritated too..especially since the election was decided in Jeb Bush's state, and the Supreme Court.

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Yes, the election came down to that state, however, what about all the others states, including his home state of Tennessee, he didn't win? I do enjoy hearing about how Bush "stole" the election, but it's like Saturday night's NBA basketball playoff game. The Lakers lost the game by 2 points! If Shaq would have sunk just 3 more free throws they would have won. Does that make it Shaq's fault they lost?

Al Gore lost the election because he didn't have enough electoral votes. Period. He lost Florida. But he also lost 22 other states.

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Yeah, exit polls said Gore won..then the big Democratic counties had people turned away..then suddenly there is no recount..then the Supreme Court decides?

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Ok, this is twice you brought that up. No problem. Exit polls are not an accurate gauge of an election, obviously, or why wouldn't we just walk up to people and ask them who you want to vote for and just write it down. Secondly, it was the DNC that asked the Supreme Court in Florida to review things. If the DNC doesn't like the laws, they just ignore them and try to change them through the court system. Same thing happened with Lautenberg in New Jersey.

In our litigious society we have been taught over the past decade or so that if we don't like it, sue. It's incredible actually.

2) Backlash:

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The Electoral College is a joke. I learned about it in Jr. High. There is only one other time in the history of the United States that an elctoral college vote decided over the popular vote.

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I agree. However, the Electoral College is necessary to allow states with little population to be a part of the National election process.

3) Presitus:

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But we can go back and forth on this ad nauseum

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Yup. I think we've pretty much summed it all up. You don't trust the RNC, I don't trust the DNC. Means our votes cancel if we live in the same state. :-)