Hunting and Training Suggestions/Help

[mtux]

I just returned to GSIV after being gone since roughly 2006. Before I left, I converted my warrior to a paladin and ended up regretting the decision. Rather than paying $250 to revert to warrior, however, I decided to convert from paladin to monk for free - I had toyed around with a monk for a week or two immediately upon my return and really enjoyed it and, besides, monk is usually my preferred character class in any RPG that has them.

Anyway, long story short(er), I am a lvl 60 monk now. I tend to try to be self-sufficient, so I go to town for spells as infrequently as possible. I am finding, however, that hunting at my own level (or overhunting slightly) is much more difficult than it was when I was in full plate. I do not mind underhunting though, so this isn't a huge deal.

Does anyone have suggestions for hunting areas in the low 50s and up?

If it matters:
Strength (STR): 87 (18) ... 92 (21)
Constitution (CON): 83 (11) ... 86 (13)
Dexterity (DEX): 85 (27) ... 85 (27)
Agility (AGI): 99 (29) ... 99 (29)
Discipline (DIS): 85 (7) ... 85 (7)
Aura (AUR): 75 (22) ... 75 (22)
Logic (LOG): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Intuition (INT): 80 (20) ... 80 (20)
Wisdom (WIS): 83 (21) ... 83 (21)
Influence (INF): 78 (9) ... 78 (9)

Two Weapon Combat..................| 122 31
Combat Maneuvers....................| 224 124
Brawling..................................| 224 124
Multi Opponent Combat...............| 122 31
Physical Fitness........................| 224 124
Dodging..................................| 286 186
Harness Power.........................| 140 40
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 162 62
Perception..............................| 140 40
Climbing................................| 140 40
Swimming................................| 140 40
First Aid............................... | 162 62

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Feint feint 5
Evade Mastery emastery 3
Punch Mastery punchmastery 3
Kick Mastery kmastery 2
Grapple Mastery gmastery 2
Rolling Krynch Stance krynch 2

I feel like my CMAN might be better allocated and I'm probably a bit behind on spells because I want to buff 1202 as much as possible - probably a result of my long history of wearing plate in GSIII/GSIV

Master of Voln
No gear that is especially noteworthy

Thanks.

(Edited to include my spells: I have 9 ranks in Minor Mental to get Dragonclaw and that's all)

[Maerit]

If you want to be self-sufficient as a monk, you'll have to learn spells. At 60, you can have both 1220 and 120. This is substantial gains to both DS and TD (TD being the more important factor) without relying on outside spells.

I'd shoot for 30-40 ranks in spells (up to 1220, then switch to MnS).
1x in MoC
and either:
2x in Dodge
2x in CMAN
or
3x in Dodge
1x in CMAN
to recuperate some TPs for the increase in spells.

Then start to learn the value of those spells. For example, feint + 1207 will stance, knock down, and add substantial RT to a target for you to then follow up with some "ground and pound".

1214 gives you the ability to parry with UAC
1213 makes it so you can basically use CMANs non-stop
If enemies have high AS, then switch to 1216 for +30 DS to prevent yourself from being whittled to death

101, 107, 120 give you a total of +45 to Spiritual TD - which ends up being super useful (and toss in 1208 for good measure).

1218 gives you a great way to disable casters and prevent them from casting (no warding check)

It would also help if you explained what kinds of difficulties (other than being less self-sufficient) you're experiencing.

[Soulance]

Paladins rock! They put Monk put there so you'll pay double to put it back.

[Androidpk]

Where are you hunting?

[mtux]

It would also help if you explained what kinds of difficulties (other than being less self-sufficient) you're experiencing.

I suppose that would be helpful.

Basically, when I get caught out of defensive stance, I find myself getting stunned almost every time I get hit by virtually anything, which of course leaves me open for successive hits in the same stance while stunned, which means I'm bleeding so bad by 4-5 mobs into a hunt that I'm already heading back to town for herbs.

I'm sure it's a combination of: (a) being gone for so long [although my fingers still muscle-memory remember my key binds for stances, amazingly enough] and (b) having lazy dancing habits from the past when I spent most of my time hulking about in full plate with a boatload of redux and, thus, not being used to getting bloody and stunned as often.

So I guess the move now, though, would be to get my spells up and my lore down and rely more on buffing my own DS rather than buffing my own fake AsG with 1202.

Thanks for the help.

[mtux]

Where are you hunting?

I've tried a few places.

I tried out River's Rest because I love the town and used to spend most of my time there back in the day... and both times in, I was leg swept and stunlocked to death by an arbalaster in the first room I wandered into.
I also tried out ogres, boars, and vipers over in Ta'Illistim, but they seemed to swarm a bit (perhaps because I was not the only hunter there at the time?) and their attacks never wanted to synch with each others' so that I could effectively time my stance dancing - which led to more bleeding and stuns.

[Maerit]

As for CMANs, if you're 3x in dodge then evade mastery might be overkill. Not sure there, but maybe it's just awesome.

I would focus on either punch or kick mastery - not both at the same time (unless you have an RP reason, Grapple Mastery is lower than both kick and punch). Kick is supposedly very nice with the RT changes since it can 1shot targets with rank 8 crits to the chest/abs/neck/head and eyes, but those results are mostly for rogues ambushing. Punch will only achieve the same results with that crit rank in the neck/head and eyes.

For a Monk, I think Punch is the way to go since you're forced to tier up in the open anyway, and the faster attacks are better (jab/jab punch). Also, be sure to learn the various status effects of Jabbing in certain locations on the body. You can jab throat, for example, to disable casting (silence) targets. The trick is being able to hit the correct spot, so 1x in Perception and get at least 20-40 ranks of Ambush to be proficient at aiming from the open.

Also, 3 ranks of Surge and Burst open up the ability to learn Perfect Self - which is arguably one of the strongest CMANs you can learn as a Monk.

Add to that, you need (must have) spell protection. Training in Combat Focus will give you +10 to generic TD passively. Some folks like Slippery Mind, but you can't use it at the same time as Krynch Stance.

Krynch Stance and Ki Focus are designed to help monks with Tier-Up speed. Krynch allows you to keep your current tier on the next target you attack within a short period of time, which helps with target swapping and keeps momentum moving forward. Ki Focus lets you spend a TON of stamina (greatly benefited by 1213) to give you the ability to automatically tier up on your next UAC attack.

[Maerit]

If you're having a problem with being hit by physical attacks as a Monk, then I suggest bolstering your DS with spells. Getting to 1220 will give you +50 DS more than you have currently (1216 and 1220) in all stances. It will also give you the ability to parry (1214). That is, of course, unless you lose substantial DS from dropping dodge ranks to gain the spells, but I don't think you get a ton of DS from dodge past 2x... Someone who knows more of the maths would have to weigh in there.

Additionally, this is not always possible, but I find targets that use maneuver disablers are the best kind of targets to "lock down". Start with feint + 1207. This puts them into decent / substantial RT while prone and stanced. If you up your HP to 1x, then you can pretty much use 1207 to open up every single fight. 1207 is possibly one of the strongest disablers at your disposal. It's more reliable than CMANs, it's targeted so you can't accidentally knock down the wrong target (or ally) costs only 7 mana, and you can use it from guarded stance!

One last note, if you put points into the CMAN Combat Mobility, you can automatically stand when attacked while prone as long as you're not immobilized. This can greatly help a Monk because I think you take some major dodge penalties while prone, but this CMAN stands you up automatically while in RT preventing you from suffering the DS loss and any other penalties associated with being prone.

[mtux]

So then, this would probably be better for me?

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 122 31
Combat Maneuvers...................| 224 124
Brawling...........................| 224 124
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 122 31
Physical Fitness...................| 224 124
Dodging............................| 224 124
Harness Power......................| 122 31
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 25 5
Perception.........................| 140 40
Climbing...........................| 140 40
Swimming...........................| 140 40
First Aid..........................| 161 61

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 20

Spell Lists
Minor Mental.......................| 20


Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Feint feint 5
Surge of Strength surge 3
Evade Mastery emastery 3
Burst of Swiftness burst 3
Perfect Self perfectself 3
Punch Mastery punchmastery 3
Rolling Krynch Stance krynch 2

I cut back on harness power, dodge, and obviously lore - is there a "cutoff point" for first aid wherein I can effectively stop training it? Or is it best to keep doing it 1x so I can have a prayer of skinning (I assume it + survival still contribute to that?) and bandaging myself?

Thanks again all.

[Maerit]

Unless you are climbing / swimming all over, you probably only need to be .5x in those, so you could potentially gain back some TPs from 10 ranks in both Climb / Swim.

Also look into the benefits of the changes to MoC for UAC. Mstrike is now able to utilize any UAC attack style you specify, and if you can push that up to 55 ranks you can do very powerful focus mstrikes. If you haven't already tiered up on the target, it will open with a "free" jab then follow up with 3 attacks. I think your RT will be around 8 seconds with punch? I'm not RT calculator though, so that's just a guess.

[Androidpk]

I'll see if I can dig up my skills. I converted from paladin to monk some time around level 60. Spent a lot of time hunting up on the plateau, lesser minotaurs and krag yeti. Very physical build with lots of MOC and only up through 1220 for spells.

[mtux]

Should/can I cut back to 0.5x perception as well? I'm somewhere around 0.66x right now - not sure if I need more or less.

[Androidpk]

race?

[mtux]

race?

Dark Elf

[Maerit]

Aiming attacks from the open is super useful for Monks. I wouldn't be less than 1x in perception personally. TPs are very very tight for a monk.

Having 20 ranks in MnS at level 60 might be too much spells for now due to the TP cost, If you want 2x in CMAN. You might drop that back down to around 7 ranks in MnS just for 101, 103, and 107. You'll lose 20 spiritual TD and 15 DS from 120, but you won't have to beg for spirituals from others and you can regain a TON of TPs.

That should put you in line to bump MoC up to 1x, Perception up to 1x and gain some ranks of Ambush so you can aim your punches.

All preference, though. That TD boost is super nice if you are hunting casters. They will get you easily since your CvA is the same as wearing robes. That's what makes hunting the citadel hard for a Monk. The heralds in there love to toss around warding spells.

[mtux]

I think I might be going with that last suggestion - I'd already had the thought to drop back to 107 and I like the idea of being more "physical" as a monk. Sitting at this right now - and loving the instant skill changes during the change-over period.

Two Weapon Combat..................| 122 31
Combat Maneuvers...................| 224 124
Brawling...........................| 224 124
Ambush.............................| 120 30
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 161 61
Physical Fitness...................| 224 124
Dodging............................| 224 124
Harness Power......................| 122 31
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 25 5
Perception.........................| 161 61
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30
First Aid..........................| 161 61

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 7

Spell Lists
Minor Mental.......................| 20

[mtux]

Thanks folks for helping, by the way, I appreciate it. It feels odd to come back to a game that is so familiar but so different - especially as someone who used to have all of the CvA, AsG, etc. tables more or less memorized and can't really remember any of it now.

As an aside - I should know this from being a Feint master in the warrior guild in my previous life, but I don't remember - do more offensive stances increase likelihood of Feint success or does stance not matter?

[meekee38]

Here is my level 70 monk that has started to be fun again. Hope it helps. If I didn't spend so much on trading, survival, and first aid, I would spend the points on MOC. I don't find spirit SUPER helpful since you can get 4 hours from most anyone in town. Why spend the points right now?

at level 70), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 172 72
Combat Maneuvers...................| 244 144
Brawling...........................| 244 144
Ambush.............................| 140 40
Physical Fitness...................| 244 144
Dodging............................| 316 216
Harness Power......................| 130 35
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 82 18
Survival...........................| 172 72
Perception.........................| 172 72
Climbing...........................| 145 45
Swimming...........................| 140 40
First Aid..........................| 172 72
Trading............................| 172 72

Spell Lists
Minor Mental.......................| 20
Training Points: 43 Phy 0 Mnt (562 Phy converted to Mnt)
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

Race: Giantman Profession: Monk (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 0 Expr: 4436713 Level: 70
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 90 (35) ... 100 (40)
Constitution (CON): 90 (30) ... 100 (35)
Dexterity (DEX): 94 (17) ... 104 (22)
Agility (AGI): 90 (15) ... 100 (20)
Discipline (DIS): 90 (20) ... 100 (25)
Aura (AUR): 95 (17) ... 105 (22)
Logic (LOG): 92 (16) ... 102 (21)
Intuition (INT): 92 (21) ... 102 (26)
Wisdom (WIS): 95 (22) ... 105 (27)
Influence (INF): 63 (11) ... 73 (16)
Mana: 110 Silver: 0

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Focus focus 5
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 3
Burst of Swiftness burst 3
Perfect Self perfectself 5
Punch Mastery punchmastery 2
Rolling Krynch Stance krynch 3

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 9

[Riltus]

Thanks folks for helping, by the way, I appreciate it. It feels odd to come back to a game that is so familiar but so different - especially as someone who used to have all of the CvA, AsG, etc. tables more or less memorized and can't really remember any of it now.

As an aside - I should know this from being a Feint master in the warrior guild in my previous life, but I don't remember - do more offensive stances increase likelihood of Feint success or does stance not matter?

Yes, there is a stance penalty which is also affected by the CM rank.

Stance penalty formulas

Feint Rank 1: [.ceil(stance * 2)/3]
Feint Rank 2: [stance * 0.75]
Feint Ranks 3, 4, 5: [stance * 0.80]

Where stance is:

OFF: 0
ADV: 20
FOR: 40
NEU: 60
GUA: 80
DEF: 100

Feint Rank 1 penalties by stance

OFF: 0
ADV: -14
FOR: -27
NEU: -40
GUA: -54
DEF: -60

Feint Rank 2 penalties by stance

OFF: 0
ADV: -15
FOR: -30
NEU: -45
GUA: -60
DEF: -75

Feint Rank 3, 4, 5 penalties by stance

OFF: 0
ADV: -16
FOR: -32
NEU: -48
GUA: -64
DEF: -80

Armor Penalty

ASG 1 to 6: No penalty
ASG 7, 8: -2
ASG 9, 10, 11: -3
ASG 12, 13, 14: -4
ASG 15, 16: -5
ASG 17: -6
ASG 18: -7
ASG 19: -8
ASG 20: -10

Note: Penalty only applies to torso armor worn (no penalty for monks in robes with 1202 active).

Encumbrance Penalty

There is an encumbrance penalty of -1 for each percent encumbered body weight.

Mark

[Donquix]

I like to append a sarcastic "...IF I HAD TO WAGER A GUESS" to the end of all of Mark's post.

It's like my version of the "in bed" game with fortune cookies.

[MrMortimur]

I think I might be going with that last suggestion - I'd already had the thought to drop back to 107 and I like the idea of being more "physical" as a monk. Sitting at this right now - and loving the instant skill changes during the change-over period.

Two Weapon Combat..................| 122 31
Combat Maneuvers...................| 224 124
Brawling...........................| 224 124
Ambush.............................| 120 30
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 161 61
Physical Fitness...................| 224 124
Dodging............................| 224 124
Harness Power......................| 122 31
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 25 5
Perception.........................| 161 61
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30
First Aid..........................| 161 61

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 7

Spell Lists
Minor Mental.......................| 20

I rather enjoy my monk who is just a few levels shy of you. I'll weigh in with some comments.

1. 2wc-your 31 ranks is a good amount. The thresholds for DS purposes would be 1 rank, .5x, and then anything you can afford. I was cheap and just went with 1 rank to get the static +5DS and the ability to parry with left hand. Being .5x you get a static +15 DS in addition to the .1DS per rank in offensive.
2. Ambush-Edited to agree with meekee.
3. MOC In order to save points I'd likely train MOC in chunks where you can hit specific thresholds. The triple strike at 55 ranks would be a good stopping point IMO until you can spare the points for 90 and quad strike. The new ability to mstrike UAC attacks is a great one.
4. Lore. I went with 30 ML-T and will keep that much until level 75 when I'll drop it down to 15. Reasons being that between levels 50 and 75 as a monk and 30 lore your iron skin will be effectively chainmail which if I understand things correctly gets you the crit divisor or chain all over your body. I did also go with 6 telepathy for the stamina reduction it gives to 1213. From reading your post I believe you will benefit more from 1216 and the DS it provides.
5. spells at 20/7. For this level and wanting to be self sufficient this is the best split imo but with mtps so tight on a monk, I actually prefer just getting a quick 4 hours of spells from someone in town and using this TPs elsewhere. I went 1220 at 20 and havent trained in any spells since. At cap I expect I'll need/want 120 but I'll resist that for as long as I can.
6. CMan masteries. You didn't post if you changed your original but likely having 1 mastery is the most you'd really need. Punch is a good one as it is both a strong tier up as well as a decent finisher.
7. Meditate resistance. Remember to use this one. It is free, it helps, and it lasts for 4 hours.
My monk is trained more to be played in a duo but here is what I was able to afford going for my goals I listed above.
Gender: Male Age: 52 Expr: 3336305 Level: 58
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 89 (4) ... 99 (9)
Constitution (CON): 86 (28) ... 96 (33)
Dexterity (DEX): 88 (29) ... 98 (34)
Agility (AGI): 79 (24) ... 89 (29)
Discipline (DIS): 89 (14) ... 99 (19)
Aura (AUR): 94 (27) ... 104 (32)
Logic (LOG): 86 (28) ... 96 (33)
Intuition (INT): 86 (23) ... 96 (28)
Wisdom (WIS): 93 (21) ... 103 (26)
Influence (INF): 72 (6) ... 82 (11)
Mana: 68 Silver: 0


Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 2
Side by Side sidebyside 5
Combat Mobility mobility 1
Combat Toughness toughness 2
Surge of Strength surge 3
Evade Mastery emastery 1
Burst of Swiftness burst 3
Perfect Self perfectself 5

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 8

Stamina-If I hunted solo more often I'd keep Kifocus in mind as a possibility but in my usual duo I go for surge+burst as a near permanent buff (RT permitting) I have the DS from spells and consumables that I use 1213 rather than 1216 to help with stamina costs. As I play a burghal gnome the constant strength bonus keeps me unencumbered while giving me that +12 UAF which helps but not nearly as useful as an AS booster would be for other classes. Burst I keep up when it isn't on cooldown though in 5 or 10 levels I expect I'll be able to keep that up indefinitely as well. That provides another 12 UAF in addition to ~12 DS from the agility it provides.

As for hunting grounds, being in voln I imagine you'd prefer to hunt undead to be able to use your symbols as well as stockpile more favor. You're in that difficult level range for undead. You might give soul golems a try as they're slightly higher in level than you which would be good for xp and favor but they also don't swarm which plays to a monk's strengths. Also the folk on teras are pretty great for spells, rescues, general harassment. Alternatives would be the citadel which I think would be miserable on a monk even one that isn't rusty. I intend to do krag dwellers and yetis as they don't swarm too much and for a physical monk they'd be a good matchup.

[MrMortimur]

Oh a script that I always have running and others might find useful. Keeps 1202 and 1215 active.

ironblink.lic
;e loop { wait_until { not dead? and Spell[1202].affordable? and ((Spell[1202].timeleft < 40 and not checknpcs) or Spell[1202].timeleft < 20) }; Spell[1202].cast;
pause 2
wait_until { not dead? and Spell[1215].affordable? and ((Spell[1215].timeleft < 15 and not checknpcs) or Spell[1215].timeleft < 3) }; Spell[1215].cast;
sleep 5 }

[meekee38]

30 to 40 ranks of ambush is great when you are maxed tiered up to aim for the head. I enjoy it thoroughly.

A good script I use is ;combo for open uac.