Should old *too* powerful items be Nerfed/Removed ?

[Geralt]

The PRO argument:

I suppose one-of-a-kind items that have mostly fluff mechanics and can't be abused during combat is perfectly fine if it remains in game. And also, old style Katanas or Claidhmores are also fine, seeing as how they are effectively unable to be enchanted higher as it would automatically convert them to new-style.
But items more along the lines of a Thalior's <insert here> and or pin worn DB items that go beyond 1x enchant should be removed from the game as a way to bring it more in-line to the conventional GS environment we have today and not 1993 AOL times. I also include 7x+ old style Claidhmores or mauls and skinning knives into this basket.

+ Forces GM's and developers to take into account obscene item powers when balancing the game for the general population.
+ Creates bubbles and distortions in the silver in-game economy.
+ Items seem to rotate amongst a certain select few and is out-of-reach for everyone else. This creates a form of legalized illegal scripting or "cheating" as it allows a very select few players to do things unachievable by the "regular" player.
+ Makes cool in-game auction items... well, rather bland. "Oh gee well, that seems cool GM So-n-So but I remember seeing the spirit drain sword and that's way cooler! I guess the game is finished and nothing better/cooler can come out, time to quit."

The CON argument:

On the other hand, there are some arguments that go against this. Namely, that these old cool items that really shouldn't exist in today's game can add a certain mystique. Almost like finding Excalibur or something like a "stick-it-to-the-GMs" item.

+ The "Cool" factor.
+ The "they'll never make this again" factor.
+ Something to dream about?
+ The I have it, and I'm rich because of it factor (only applies to a very select few).
+ Sometimes Game-Breaking can be fun.

So, what do you all think? Do you believe that items that are game-breaking or too powerful should be nerfed and/or removed from the game. Do you also believe that this will help newer items to blossom more and that newer entry players (read as people who've been playing only from the last 5 or so years) will be re-invigorated into playing?

You decide.

[Wrathbringer]

You're retarded.

[audioserf]

I've never owned and will never own any of the legendary/oldschool OP items and I don't want to see them touched. It's fun for me to know there's crazy items like that in game, and the stories attached to them. People who DO own the truly wacky items have to be judicious in their use due to screamers etc that get sent up to GMs as it is, so it's tough to abuse a lot of them. High power DB items are really all that's left that someone could argue are imbalanced, and there are so few of them that I don't think it's causing a blip on the radar of creature design.

Just Say No To Nerfs

[Astray]

Geralt, please. Okay? Just, please.

[Androidpk]

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Furryrat]

Why dumbs so dumb?

[Some Rogue]

http://i45.tinypic.com/28vzigy.jpg

[Taernath]

I don't think any item is single-handedly able to break the game.

[Euler]

this is a good question, thank you so much for asking it. I appreciate all the wonderful contributions you bring to the forums. Insightful, yet humble. Cheers to you sir, or madam.

[Silvean]

Will Methais' mom ever stop returning my calls?

You decide.

[Fallen]

Powerful items are regularly altered in function.

[Androidpk]

Will Methais' mom ever stop returning my calls?

You decide.

Only once you stop giving her the D.

[Silvean]

Powerful items are regularly altered in function.

If I recall correctly, they changed the functionality of Thalior's staff because it was being used to create imbeds.

[mgoddess]

I've never owned and will never own any of the legendary/oldschool OP items and I don't want to see them touched. It's fun for me to know there's crazy items like that in game, and the stories attached to them. People who DO own the truly wacky items have to be judicious in their use due to screamers etc that get sent up to GMs as it is, so it's tough to abuse a lot of them. High power DB items are really all that's left that someone could argue are imbalanced, and there are so few of them that I don't think it's causing a blip on the radar of creature design.

Just Say No To Nerfs
This.

[Viekn]

Geralt, please. Okay? Just, please.

I second this. I'm really starting to like the Ignore function. Finally started using it a month ago and my life has been so much the better.

[Archigeek]

The funny part is, that the few items out there that are potentially game breaking aren't game breaking because of power. They're just game breaking because they're old and run afoul with today's GS code. Also, some of the most powerful items in the game are actually relatively recent, not old legacy items. Ethereal strings and blink weapons come to mind. Neither of those is very old in GS terms.

Anyway, if you want to close up shop on Gemstone, just get rid of all the cool stuff and half the players will quit playing, and no one who's left will be willing to spend hundreds of dollars in pursuit of their next GALD. Enjoy.

[Fallen]

If I recall correctly, they changed the functionality of Thalior's staff because it was being used to create imbeds.

They've also nerfed Virilneus's scroll tome, the gem chisels have been repeatedly nerfed, various X-realms transport items have been nerfed, immolators have been nerfed a few times, etc, etc.

They've also done general nerfs which brought down whole classes of valuable items, such as crit randomization, which nerfed all high end armor and weapons.

I'm sure Ardwen could name a dozen high end items that were nerfed in some form or another.

It's a non-issue, really. If something is too overpowered, it'll be nerfed sooner or later.

[Androidpk]

Gem weapons and Stovell flares were nerfed too.

[Tgo01]

Nerfs should happen on a per character basis.

A warrior has 10x wondrous crit padded plate armor, 10x claid with wondrous crit weighting, +50 DB cloak, and an amulet that makes him immune to all spells level 10 and lower?

Take all of his gear and divvy it up equally to all players and reset the warrior to level 10.

[audioserf]

Nerfs should happen on a per character basis.

A warrior has 10x wondrous crit padded plate armor, 10x claid with wondrous crit weighting, +50 DB cloak, and an amulet that makes him immune to all spells level 10 and lower?

Take all of his gear and divvy it up equally to all players and reset the warrior to level 10.

Commie!

[Shang Tsung]

Nerfs should happen on a per character basis.

A warrior has 10x wondrous crit padded plate armor, 10x claid with wondrous crit weighting, +50 DB cloak, and an amulet that makes him immune to all spells level 10 and lower?

Take all of his gear and divvy it up equally to all players and reset the warrior to level 10.

Koops won't like you singling him out like that.

[Androidpk]

Nerfs should happen on a per character basis.

A warrior has 10x wondrous crit padded plate armor, 10x claid with wondrous crit weighting, +50 DB cloak, and an amulet that makes him immune to all spells level 10 and lower?

Take all of his gear and divvy it up equally to all players and reset the warrior to level 10.

Shut up Bernie Sanders!

[Euler]

some warriors are more equal than others.

[Menos]

I can't neg rep the troll until I spread other rep around. Someone do it for me?

[Arkanax]

Don't nerf, just make them more available. Why can't we craft or enchant claidhs? Why must you win the lottery to have a nice one?

[Androidpk]

Don't nerf, just make them more available. Why can't we craft or enchant claidhs? Why must you win the lottery to have a nice one?

Because if everyone had a10x claid the game would break.

[Soulance]

I'd like to see more items player craftable and enchantable. Simu can make their money on events like Duskruin.

[Fallen]

I'd like to see more items player craftable and enchantable. Simu can make their money on events like Duskruin.

I agree, armor, accessories, and bows should all be craftable, which would provide better gear than is available off the shelf by far, and the beginnings of any great project piece. I remember WB stating that DR's crafting is far ahead of GS.

[Allereli]

I agree, armor, accessories, and bows should all be craftable, which would provide better gear than is available off the shelf by far, and the beginnings of any great project piece. I remember WB stating that DR's crafting is far ahead of GS.

I agree, I really wish the cobbling system had been integrated with making UAC gear.

[Methais]

You're retarded.

Facebook blocked me from posting for a week for calling someone a retard.

BETTER WATCH YOUR BACK!

[Hoodtralfeck]

claids suck anyways , flails are way more fun and it easy to find a 4x or higher one , there aint but like 2 or 3 4x claids in the whole game , never heard of one being over 4x

[Fallen]

claids suck anyways , flails are way more fun and it easy to find a 4x or higher one , there aint but like 2 or 3 4x claids in the whole game , never heard of one being over 4x

What do the numbers look like against a 3x claidh versus a 7x anything else with no weighting? Let's say against plate. I'm guessing the claid wins handedly assuming you're able to manage a decent enroll, but I could be wrong.

[Whirlin]

What do the numbers look like against a 3x claidh versus a 7x anything else with no weighting? Let's say against plate. I'm guessing the claid wins handedly assuming you're able to manage a decent enroll, but I could be wrong.
I literally made a spreadsheet to answer that very question... and you commented in that thread...

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?98570-Whirlin-s-Damage-Crit-Comparing-Spreadsheet

[Tyronebiggums]

claids suck anyways , flails are way more fun and it easy to find a 4x or higher one , there aint but like 2 or 3 4x claids in the whole game , never heard of one being over 4x

There's claids over 4x, I think someone even has a 7x old style or on with extra weighting

[Androidpk]

claids suck anyways , flails are way more fun and it easy to find a 4x or higher one , there aint but like 2 or 3 4x claids in the whole game , never heard of one being over 4x

For starters claids dont suck. There are mode than just 2 or 3 4x claids and there are claids with enchants above 4x.

[Fallen]

I literally made a spreadsheet to answer that very question... and you commented in that thread...

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?98570-Whirlin-s-Damage-Crit-Comparing-Spreadsheet

You assume I bothered to open said spreadsheet. A fatal mistake on your part.

[m444w]

Gem weapons and Stovell flares were nerfed too.

Gem weapons were only nerfed in the sense that they fixed an obvious glaring 0 second RT bug where when you used the `ambush` verb with one, you had 0 seconds of RT.

Not really a nerf, more like mechanics abuse to the people that were utilizing it.

However! It is not the only 0 second RT bug that has been squashed since then, or the only one to currently exist (though they are still trying to figure out how to fix the latest one I discovered).

The last one I know of/happened upon that was fixed, was if you used a greater black ora weapon and a greater white ora weapon in TWC combat, you had 0 seconds for all actions... That one was pretty slick.

However, ever since the gem eater incident all 0 second melee actions send out screamers and you get a GM on your ass real quick.

[Ardwen]

wait! All warriors are more equal then others, i thought everyone knew that

[Ardwen]

To respond to the original point of the thread, generally powerful items get nerfed when they do something that made sense when they were made and in todays GS world doesn't. Crossrealms items are a good example, when most of them were created when crossrealms meant landing to the moon at most, there were all of 4 zones in the game and they were all part of the landing. As the game and its system expanded a whole bunch of utility items became much more powerful then when they were created. Thalior's staff is a very good example of that, and the staff really wasn't nerfed all that hard the spells themselves got changed to prevent it from working. Most of the time a high end item gets nerfed they tend to give fairly large compensation, most recently a coin hand, to the item's owner.

[Androidpk]

Ardwen caused the Hearthstone porch to get nerfed.

[Euler]

wait! All warriors are more equal then others, i thought everyone knew that

we were talking about redistribution of wealth so I attempted to make an "Animal Farm" reference. It did not go well if such things can be judged by neg reps. :(

[Mr. Dallas]

<The last one I know of/happened upon that was fixed, was if you used a greater black ora weapon and a greater white ora weapon in TWC combat, you had 0 seconds for all actions... That one was pretty slick.>

I claim that one. :)

[Luftstreitkräfte]

Gem weapons were only nerfed in the sense that they fixed an obvious glaring 0 second RT bug where when you used the `ambush` verb with one, you had 0 seconds of RT.

Not really a nerf, more like mechanics abuse to the people that were utilizing it.

However! It is not the only 0 second RT bug that has been squashed since then, or the only one to currently exist (though they are still trying to figure out how to fix the latest one I discovered).

The last one I know of/happened upon that was fixed, was if you used a greater black ora weapon and a greater white ora weapon in TWC combat, you had 0 seconds for all actions... That one was pretty slick.

However, ever since the gem eater incident all 0 second melee actions send out screamers and you get a GM on your ass real quick.

the gem weapons were great I used the morning star and hunted level 20-35 in plate with 0 RT.

[Hoodtralfeck]

i also think that Simutronics should go into PERM banned accounts and remove incredably rare or God Auction items from them and put them back into the game . off the top my head i think of Michealous and his awesome claid and the Kai bracers and few other items he had . im sure there are others that fit this mold . and maybe do same fer people that have died IRL and them characters will never return to the game . i have it set that if i die IRL my lil brother is to give entire account to ( secret person ) that way my gear returns to the world .

[Ardwen]

Only 2 permabanned people that I am aware of, most people get long bans and quit. Irathra/Aanalar's loot would be fun if the meditation chimes worked like they used too