Runestaff + Shield

[Maerit]

I was inquiring about this the other day on LNet, and was told that "you never lose DS when using a shield".

Turns out that claim is completely false. As a sorcerer, I have zero shield use training. Equipping a 4x tower shield in my left hand while using a runestaff dropped my DS by 36. Equipping a 4x small shield my left hand while using a runestaff dropped my DS by 22.

At the time of testing, I was 100% self-spelled with no outside spells for a Sorcerer. There shouldn't be anything in the sorcerer arsenal that includes phantom dodge ranks (to my knowledge). Some people on LNet indicated that the natural Dodge DS from my AGI/INT bonus was the culprit. That I was losing DS because I wasn't sufficiently trained to mitigate the loss to Dodge from stats...

Either way, I'm curious as to how someone needs to train - how much investment into what specific skills - are necessary to wield a runestaff + shield without any DS loss. Do you need to be a full 1x in Shield Use? Perhaps it's only a certain number of ranks? Maybe it's not Shield Use, but Dodge that is necessary?

Just trying to figure out how to balance stats / skills so that wielding a shield becomes more practical in combat.

[Cereal Killer]

You're losing DS because the bonus from using a shield is not compensating for the loss of DS by holding a runestaff in one hand. There are penalties associated with only one-handing the runestaff.

[Aluvius]

Well, the answer is its complicated. Buckwheet did some testing with this awhile back in this thread:

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?78333-Runestaff-vs-Open-Handed-vs-OHE-shield-DS


The takeaway is that runestaff+shield can give you better DS in various situations/stances but you also need to 1x shield skill to overcome the negatives from holding a shield in your offhand with a runestaff.

[gilchristr]

You should use a buckler and see what happens. Tower's have an innate -10 or something like that to melee defense. So that's 10 out of your 22 right there. Plus if you had some dodge skill/ranks (which I think includes agility bonus and intuition bonus even if you only have like 1 dodge), you were killing DS from that using a tower, too.

[Nephelem]

Your losing half your evade DS with the tower plus an additional -10 for the shield size penalty. Also you lose all your parry DS for having the runestaff one handed. You basically calculate your runestaff parry DS, run it through you stance modifier and then add enchant and +10 runestaff bonus. Then subtract your parry DS from runestaff from that total.

[Maerit]

You should use a buckler and see what happens. Tower's have an innate -10 or something like that to melee defense. So that's 10 out of your 22 right there. Plus if you had some dodge skill/ranks (which I think includes agility bonus and intuition bonus even if you only have like 1 dodge), you were killing DS from that using a tower, too.

In the original post I pointed out the difference in DS lost while using both a greatshield (tower) and a buckler (small shield). The difference was -36 with tower shield and -22 with small shield.


So, the only answer is to 1x shield use then?

[azim17]

I use shield/staff. Although there are some DS differences, being disarmed doesnt insta kill you, shield cleave doesnt leave you defenseless, etc. You always have something defending you. Plus you can use orbs in your shield and get the flares from a staff, etc. I am 1x shield use.