What attack spells are you using after changes?

[phalen33]

I am returning after a little break and have a 51 wizard. So far I have been using 904 and 906 as my bread and butter attack spells. For lores I have only had 24 air lore for haste.. After looking at the changes made in the Elemental Lore Review I am having a hard time trying to decide how to retrain for lores.

In looking at the added burn effects on 904 and 906 it looks like 904 is applied more often, but the 906 effect does more damage. Then in looking at minor steam 1907 has DF close to 906, but only costs 4 mana. Using 903 to soak + 901/910 to stun looks fun as well.

Just curious what everyone is using pre-cap or what would you recommend for a pre-cap wizard?

Thanks

[Fiend394]

51 Wizard is using 910/510 depending on the creature. Just kind of shoot it at everything.

[Donquix]

901, until they change rapid fire.

[phalen33]

Thanks for the input Fiend. I like to throw out a 910 or two, but I find myself running out of mana more often then not before frying. 510 would be fun because I could go deep into earth lore which would give me the DS boosts from the new ELR. I could also step back down to 904 when low on mana.

Have you played with a 415 build before? It's a lot more mana, but as a Halfling I could wrack a couple times a hunt. I just don't know if I can bring myself to turn my Wizard into a CS caster..

[Tgo01]

Nerf wizards!!

[Donquix]

Thanks for the input Fiend. I like to throw out a 910 or two, but I find myself running out of mana more often then not before frying. 510 would be fun because I could go deep into earth lore which would give me the DS boosts from the new ELR. I could also step back down to 904 when low on mana.

Have you played with a 415 build before? It's a lot more mana, but as a Halfling I could wrack a couple times a hunt. I just don't know if I can bring myself to turn my Wizard into a CS caster..

Rapid fire 901, mana problems solved :D

It's difficult to sustain 910/510 for hunting like, at cap. Let alone at 51. If you don't want to use the rapid fire + 901, you should be using 903, 904, 906 as your staples. tonis bolt 505 is a good setup for single targets and it did just get a bonus for the previously cookie cutter 24 air lore build with the first 20 ranks of lore actually adding to the DF now. I haven't played with the new unlockable acid bolt stuff, steam bolt is a good df (close to or higher than 901 in efficiency) but steam is a comparatively terrible damage type for death crits.

415 is mana intensive but it is certainly a good spell. It would be difficult to make work early, but possible especially with as you said being a halfling for the lolspirit return. If you invested heavily into fire lore to unlock the extra strike, you've essentially already learned enough fire lore to make pre-nerfed immolate better though, more than likely. Focusing more on MjE makes your leech better/more reliable as well so, that's always nice.

new targeted ice patch is kinda fun, but a bit expensive and you can't cast it multiple times (if the target is already rooted you can't cast it again). I'm tempted just because if i go all in on water for 512 + 903 interaction i get that sweet, sweet 925 buff.

[phalen33]

I'm guessing they haven't given any timeline on the rapid fire and immolate nerfs? I haven't tried rapid fire + 901 in quite a few trains. Might be fun to give it a whirl again before the nerf. Thanks for the info.

[kutter]

When hunting solo and not swarming, typically open with like 908 to try to get a stun, then hit them with 505 to put them on the ground then close out with 904. The changes in the whole evoke thing for 505 is hanging up my macros and still trying to figure out how to make that work as a macro without targeting myself, but for now wrote a short script to make it work.

[Buckwheet]

I will be switching from 505/519 to 711/705.

[Izalude]

Capped mage here. Depending on what I'm hunting (mostly ithzir and griffins), I'll generally use a combination of 505 and 910. I'll use 518 if I get swarmed, and I'll use 435 to kill any seers that put up wall of force. I'll hit adepts and heralds with 530, and then just leech mana from them when I start running low. I can usually go from clear as a bell to fried before my mana leech becomes useless. It helps if I'm going after griffins more because they're easy to kill and they're the highest level creatures in Old Ta'Faendryl.

Pre-nerf 518 was great for me, especially when I had to kill constructs. I'd knock out their anti-magical aura with my falchion. While I'm dealing with the construct's anti magical aura, usually 5 or 6 ithzir would show up. It's made hunting just a little more dangerous for me.

Oh, I should also say that I'm lightning attuned.

[Fallen]

I dislike the requirement for an orb gem to use Charge Item. That was one of the changes I was hoping they'd make during the ELR. If you could extend your mana supply easily by charging wands without jumping through the additional hoop of tracking down special gems, I think more wizards would bother.

[kutter]

I dislike the requirement for an orb gem to use Charge Item. That was one of the changes I was hoping they'd make during the ELR. If you could extend your mana supply easily by charging wands without jumping through the additional hoop of tracking down special gems, I think more wizards would bother.

I guess I do not think too much about it, I just save all my tiny pearls since they are all orbs and use those for charging. Probably not the best gem to use but they work.

[Fallen]

I guess I do not think too much about it, I just save all my tiny pearls since they are all orbs and use those for charging. Probably not the best gem to use but they work.

I didn't know there were natural orb gems. Are you aware of any others?

[Thondalar]

I didn't know there were natural orb gems. Are you aware of any others?

Just tiny pearls. Color doesn't matter.

[Maerit]

Wait until 502 is done and released. CS hunting might become very useful for COL users.

Bolt with 910/510 until mana is strained, wrack, finish your hunt with 415/502 and you can easily use 413 to help with grizzled / ancients or hard-to-ward areas now that it has a TD pushdown based on your EMC and Fire Lore helps after you apply the debuff too.

[Archigeek]

I dislike the requirement for an orb gem to use Charge Item. That was one of the changes I was hoping they'd make during the ELR. If you could extend your mana supply easily by charging wands without jumping through the additional hoop of tracking down special gems, I think more wizards would bother.

Another side to this coin would be to allow lores to improve AS when using a wand, so that the reason to use a wand becomes a higher attack strength. I remember suggesting that this was how runestaves should work when they were introduced: that they should be a trainable skill with benefits to spell proficiency, instead of the chosen route, which is basically a DS version of redux. I'd much rather see runestaves (and wands too) as channeling devices that increase efficiency of spell casting. Charging up spells into your runestaff could be allowed too. Oh well, not going to see that ever probably.

[Thondalar]

I dislike the requirement for an orb gem to use Charge Item. That was one of the changes I was hoping they'd make during the ELR. If you could extend your mana supply easily by charging wands without jumping through the additional hoop of tracking down special gems, I think more wizards would bother.

Why have any requirements at all? Why not just make it a standard verb?

[audioserf]

Wait until 502 is done and released. CS hunting might become very useful for COL users.

Bolt with 910/510 until mana is strained, wrack, finish your hunt with 415/502 and you can easily use 413 to help with grizzled / ancients or hard-to-ward areas now that it has a TD pushdown based on your EMC and Fire Lore helps after you apply the debuff too.

Entirely coincidentally COL will be harshly nerfed within months of 502's release.

[Tgo01]

Why have any requirements at all? Why not just make it a standard verb?

I agree. Same with duplicate and invisibility. Wizards have so many high level spells taking up spell slots that don't even deserve to be actual spells, much less level 18 spells and shit.

Just make these spells standard wizard abilities like clerics and empaths can meditate for spirit and mana regen and monks can meditate for resistances.

[Orp]

I didn't know there were natural orb gems. Are you aware of any others?

star ruby's are generally orbs as well

[Allereli]

star ruby's are generally orbs as well

cat's-eye moonstones are similar

[Fallen]

Duplicate is crap and needs to go. I do think I charge item is worthy of its slot, but it does need improvements.

[Soulance]

Love me some 505 bolt for my wizard and it basically got me up to level 91, but they just changed it to EVOKE and now it's a pain. Hopefully they fix it soon where it works like incant if they haven't already. Back to 901 with Rapid Fire for the win, especially now that it keeps arcing lightning over creatures even though RF takes them down pretty quickly.

[Thondalar]

Love me some 505 bolt for my wizard and it basically got me up to level 91, but they just changed it to EVOKE and now it's a pain. Hopefully they fix it soon where it works like incant if they haven't already. Back to 901 with Rapid Fire for the win, especially now that it keeps arcing lightning over creatures even though RF takes them down pretty quickly.

My main hunting wiz is only mid 70's, but I still lead with 505 and finish with 904. I only have enough lore for the air bolt, so the lore changes don't really affect me much yet...I wasn't planning on getting any more lores until probably post cap. Evoke/incant doesn't really affect me either, I still hunt with prep 505\rcast critter\r macros. Like a boss.

[Allereli]

Has anyone integrated the soaking/stun shock effect on a regular basis? Seems like it would be good at mid-levels.

[Donquix]

Love me some 505 bolt for my wizard and it basically got me up to level 91, but they just changed it to EVOKE and now it's a pain. Hopefully they fix it soon where it works like incant if they haven't already. Back to 901 with Rapid Fire for the win, especially now that it keeps arcing lightning over creatures even though RF takes them down pretty quickly.

heh, yeah. i like how right before they nerfed rapid fire, they made it even stronger with the stunlock being basically guranteed (not that they live but hey, if something like another creature runs in and hits you the first is likely locked down) and the potential for maintaining the efficiency but upping the speed with steambolt at a low lore investment.

[Maerit]

Has anyone integrated the soaking/stun shock effect on a regular basis? Seems like it would be good at mid-levels.

I think that required water lore to be trained, and most folks might be a little hesitant to just dump a bunch of points into water lore without being able to test out the features first. I feel like these mechanical changes really need a "trial" period.

[Fallen]

Are shocks any more powerful than acid or fire flares? If not, I would imagine it would be better to build around making use of those instead. Less setup, same payoff.

[Allereli]

I think that required water lore to be trained, and most folks might be a little hesitant to just dump a bunch of points into water lore without being able to test out the features first. I feel like these mechanical changes really need a "trial" period.

After spending two days staring at this spell, I feel qualified to say water lore is awesome for 518.

I don't disagree about a trial period, but if people still have their yearly fixskills, they can use that and then change again when the new one is released.

[phalen33]

At the moment I am giving rapid+901 another shot, but I find it a little spammy.. It works great, don't get me wrong, but I am starting to miss just burning off limbs and faces! I think I will be going back to 904 and 906 soon. However, from reading the suggestions I think I will try 505 as an opener for stun and knockdown.

I am still thinking about 502 and 415, but I don't know if I can bring myself to do it. I already have a cleric that does 302 and 317..

As for the new lore changes, I think I might just stick to 24 air for now. I might take some earth ranks to get the first seed or two on the defensive spells for kicks. The added effects on acid and fire seem a bit lame to me unless I am using 518. For single targets I generally kill them in 3 or fewer casts of 906. 3 casts means the critter is dead 6-7 seconds from the first cast. So if I get lucky and ignite the first hit then I will only get 1 flare in. With putting in 60 fire lore I would only get a 31% chance to ignite and probably only get 1 flare?!? Doesn't seem worth it at the moment. I wish they did a flare when the effect is applied and then followed by an additional two flares. That way if I get lucky and ignite on all three casts then I would get at least 3 flares. Or say I ignite on the 1st and 3rd cast it would flare on each of those ignites. Then I would get a tick from the 1st ignite between the second and third cast. That or let me ignite multiple parts of the body on fire.. I hit the left arm and that starts to burn. I then hit the right leg and that starts to burn as well. The corresponding ticks of damage would damage the area that was lit on fire. Well along those lines, what I really wish my wizard could do is aim his bolt spells.. What is the point of spell aiming if I can't f'ing aim anything? Let me aim for the left leg with a bolt of fire. Set it on fire, hit the next critter and the next. Then let their legs slowly burn to ash and fall to the ground. I guess there is a lot I want for my Wizard. Such as a reason to want to train past 13 ranks in Wizard spells..

[Tenzle]

Right now I'm using rapid fire 502 fire attuned with no lore and its working great.

[Fiend394]

Rapid fire 901, mana problems solved :D

It's difficult to sustain 910/510 for hunting like, at cap. Let alone at 51. If you don't want to use the rapid fire + 901, you should be using 903, 904, 906 as your staples. tonis bolt 505 is a good setup for single targets and it did just get a bonus for the previously cookie cutter 24 air lore build with the first 20 ranks of lore actually adding to the DF now. I haven't played with the new unlockable acid bolt stuff, steam bolt is a good df (close to or higher than 901 in efficiency) but steam is a comparatively terrible damage type for death crits.

415 is mana intensive but it is certainly a good spell. It would be difficult to make work early, but possible especially with as you said being a halfling for the lolspirit return. If you invested heavily into fire lore to unlock the extra strike, you've essentially already learned enough fire lore to make pre-nerfed immolate better though, more than likely. Focusing more on MjE makes your leech better/more reliable as well so, that's always nice.

new targeted ice patch is kinda fun, but a bit expensive and you can't cast it multiple times (if the target is already rooted you can't cast it again). I'm tempted just because if i go all in on water for 512 + 903 interaction i get that sweet, sweet 925 buff.

I only run out of mana if I am 100% clear, and even then it's like 1/3 times. I think 510 works really well in the stronghold though. I leech every critter and ewave 1 time per creature.

I usually return with around 80-100 mana in the bucket

[Vorpodu]

I've yet to find when using 512 plus 903 to minor cold is useful over just 906 or 910. Just throwing that out into the universe. Also, the stun shock effect is pretty useless as well, considering things are dead before it even has a chance to work usually. It should totally flare right away.

[Whirlin]

I've yet to find when using 512 plus 903 to minor cold is useful over just 906 or 910. Just throwing that out into the universe. Also, the stun shock effect is pretty useless as well, considering things are dead before it even has a chance to work usually. It should totally flare right away.
Agreed... With the DF increase of ice versus cold, you need 4 casts of the 903 under 512 to be mana efficient... Sadly, it's very unlikely that anything will live for 4 casts of 903 at a higher DF.

[Lady Sylvan]

I think that those who made these changes give wizards a free fixskills. This way we can change of training once we figure out what works best for each wizard. That's just my 2 cents.

I love the changes. (Air Mage)

[Androidpk]

I think that those who made these changes give wizards a free fixskills. This way we can change of training once we figure out what works best for each wizard. That's just my 2 cents.

I love the changes. (Air Mage)

Everyone will be getting a free fixskill shortly.

[Soulance]

I think that those who made these changes give wizards a free fixskills. This way we can change of training once we figure out what works best for each wizard. That's just my 2 cents.

I love the changes. (Air Mage)
Got an Air Mage here too. Are you going to put 50 into Water then? I was thinking of doing the 50 in Water and working the rest Air if it makes sense. Water has become the overall utility it seems.

[Donquix]

Agreed... With the DF increase of ice versus cold, you need 4 casts of the 903 under 512 to be mana efficient... Sadly, it's very unlikely that anything will live for 4 casts of 903 at a higher DF.

makes me sad, i was considering going heavy water for enchanting. I'm trying to remember the proposed changes but if you did 100 EL:W, 50 EL:F, 50 EL:A, and attuned to earth, I think you could enchant like every element.

[Vorpodu]

With those proposed changes they never really explained how they would handle uncommon flares. Can't really have a system that excludes certain weapons based solely on the fact that the flares don't fall into a category. A flaring weapon is a flaring weapon. I'm not talking about any of the script based flares, more like void. Why be able to enchant fire flaring stuff but not void? Just my thought.

[Lady Sylvan]

I get airlore for rp reasons and because I (enjoyed Tonis Bolt before the change). Airlore will be my focus, but I am unsure as to what other lores to get.

Perhaps fire and water. Its hard to decide without first understanding the seeds.

[Soulance]

With those proposed changes they never really explained how they would handle uncommon flares. Can't really have a system that excludes certain weapons based solely on the fact that the flares don't fall into a category. A flaring weapon is a flaring weapon. I'm not talking about any of the script based flares, more like void. Why be able to enchant fire flaring stuff but not void? Just my thought.
It can make it interesting though, and make enchanting more profitable. If you you want a certain flaring item enchanted you have to find the right attuned wizard to do it.

[Mettler]

In my opinion steambolt/evoke 903 is the best change the ELR brought to bolts. Evoke 903 is a great way to kill non corporeal undead since you can't crit-kill them anyway. It seems more mana efficient than 904. Don't know if math actually bears that out, just judging from what I see on screen.

The rest of the bolt changes don't do much for me. Stun shock seems pitiful. The acid and fire DoT are nice, I guess, but I don't really hunt that way. If I go offensive, I bolt and bolt again until the target is dead. I don't sit around and watch for fancy effects.

502 really has good potential but its damage is capped too low. It also has no chance of any kind of instant death like 302. While the DS pushdown is nice -- is it better than just having thrown a bolt anyway? I'm really trying to work it into my rotation but honestly it might be 3 wasted cast time seconds. I can only see 502 being really "useful" where I would normally 410 the target before bolting.

Even with the (admittedly good) changes to 415, I still don't see that spell really competing with 519 post-nerf. 519 is boss and will still be the best we got for single-target CS killers. Now if there were 2 targets in the room, then maybe I would spam 415 more. Not sure.

Overall -- nothing much has changed except the 3 "best" things wizards had going for them are nerfed, and in exchange we got fool's gold.

[Whirlin]

In my opinion steambolt/evoke 903 is the best change the ELR brought to bolts. Evoke 903 is a great way to kill non corporeal undead since you can't crit-kill them anyway. It seems more mana efficient than 904. Don't know if math actually bears that out, just judging from what I see on screen.
Higher DF, but worse crit kill thresholds



502 really has good potential but its damage is capped too low. It also has no chance of any kind of instant death like 302. While the DS pushdown is nice -- is it better than just having thrown a bolt anyway? I'm really trying to work it into my rotation but honestly it might be 3 wasted cast time seconds. I can only see 502 being really "useful" where I would normally 410 the target before bolting.

I'd argue it's more of a warmage ability, as it will also lower a critter's physical DS for ebladed weapons. I'd tend to stick to 505 as a single-target disabler.



Even with the (admittedly good) changes to 415, I still don't see that spell really competing with 519 post-nerf. 519 is boss and will still be the best we got for single-target CS killers. Now if there were 2 targets in the room, then maybe I would spam 415 more. Not sure.

Overall -- nothing much has changed except the 3 "best" things wizards had going for them are nerfed, and in exchange we got fool's gold.
By their own guidance, 415 will never be better than 519... Minor elementals are supposed to be half power of their major varients. So, I'm not sure why wizards are so happy about that change!

[Donquix]

502 has no cool thematic autokill chance, but it does seem to have a decent chance for just crit killing, more so than other like-leveled CS based spells. This is purely anecdotal. I've swapped it into my rotation for stupid things that put wall of force when i'm rapid shocking. like what? I DON"T THINK SO SISSY SPIRIT CASTER.

[Mettler]

Higher DF, but worse crit kill thresholds

right, so that's why i think its awesome for non-corporeal undead since crit-kills don't apply, unless I'm totally loony?

[Whirlin]

right, so that's why i think its awesome for non-corporeal undead since crit-kills don't apply, unless I'm totally loony?
Derp, you're right... just chiming in on the first bit and the last bits... 903 and maths