Monks - worth it or pass?

[Geralt]

Are monks viable/playable now (after the recent really nice changes)?

+How nice are they in terms of raw killing power relative to the other squares?
+I heard they tend to die a lot?
+Worth it to roll one up and get him to cap?
+And what kind of gear do these guys wear?
+Aren't they supposed to be the first "gearless class"?

[Taernath]

Mine is only level 15, so I can only comment on the gear portion.

You can go without armor, similar to bards, in that you will use certain skills and abilities to make up for it. You also *can* go empty hand brawling, but you are probably going to want to use UAC gloves/boots as platforms for enchants, blessings, weighting or flares. The various brawling weapons provide DF bonuses but a penalty to MM.

[Maerit]

- They kill perfectly fine. Open ranged monks are supposedly awesome, but I've never tried one. I find the RT and MSTRIKE changes to UAC have had a major impact on how quickly something dies. You'll do a very similar routine as any square. Except, I find it's actually safer as a Monk. Lot's of squares have to stance offensive, feint, disable (sbash, tackle, ambush leg, etc) then aim at something vital. Monks can 1207 from guarded, then feint while their target is already disabled, then ambush or any number of other methods of killing.

- I haven't had any problems with monks dying a lot. In fact, compared to the other squares (Warriors / Rogues) the monk has the advantage because it's far easier to 1x spells, and honestly the 1x spells up to 40 for 1220 and 120 is an amazing DS advantage over the other squares and helps fix some of the warding problems. In addition, the new meditation resistance helps because you can customize your damage reduction based on what you're hunting.

- Getting to cap with any class is a monumental undertaking. You're talking about potentially years from now. Try focusing on rolling one for the sake of enjoying the playstyle. Monks bring nothing to the game outside of combat. They lack utility apart from their group spells (which don't work with F2P).

- Gear is the player's decision. The Monk is designed to work in Robes as their armor base (you wear them because the enchant adds directly to your DS, without robes you will not get armor DS benefits). Anything higher than robes negates the Iron Hide (1202) spell, but there are some monks that train AU and wear plate instead because you cannot get the CvA vs warding spells with Iron Hide. However, AU training is expensive for Monks (comparatively), so most Monks opt out of training anything into Armor Use, and just wear robes with 1202 running. If you go the UAC route, I recommend finding flaring equipment. Especially if you can get your hands on those 6x greater elemental flaring UAC gloves from Duskruin. Those will be amazing with 2s Jabs, 3s Punche/Grapples.

One nice advantage to the UAC Monk style is that you are completely immune to various weapon-based disadvantages. Things like disarm, weapon fire, and sunder (shield) will never factor into your combat. You can fight things most folks avoid because of this combat style. They are not "gearless". You still want armor (robes), weapons (gloves & boots). In addition, the robes inflict no spell hindrance and you will have the AsG of higher armor classes while still being able to cast spells.

The major disadvantage to their lower gear requirements are:

1. Fewer options for Fusion gear when you don't equip weapons or shields
2. You can't benefit from a handful of spells (like 1605) or use various CMANs
3. Your armor can be dispelled!!!

[Versin]

The changes have definitely helped, I actually hunt my monk again. TD is still an issue. Fairly easy to get basic flaring gear, the crit weighting is also nice but market tends to be a bit overpriced IMHO.


Are monks viable/playable now (after the recent really nice changes)?

+How nice are they in terms of raw killing power relative to the other squares?
+I heard they tend to die a lot?
+Worth it to roll one up and get him to cap?
+And what kind of gear do these guys wear?
+Aren't they supposed to be the first "gearless class"?

[Maerit]

The changes have definitely helped, I actually hunt my monk again. TD is still an issue. Fairly easy to get basic flaring gear, the crit weighting is also nice but market tends to be a bit overpriced IMHO.

They gotta be weak to something, amirite? Pures are weak to maneuvers in the same way Monks are weak to warding spells.

If you're UAC, make sure you train sufficiently to aim your strikes. Jab neck will silence a target for a good while, and helps significantly in avoiding being warded.

[Androidpk]

1218 is incredible for shutting down casters.

[Donquix]

- They kill perfectly fine. Open ranged monks are supposedly awesome, but I've never tried one.

They are not awesome. They're good, but it's still a shitty version of an open ranger. It was just the best available training path.


I find the RT and MSTRIKE changes to UAC have had a major impact on how quickly something dies. You'll do a very similar routine as any square. Except, I find it's actually safer as a Monk. Lot's of squares have to stance offensive, feint, disable (sbash, tackle, ambush leg, etc) then aim at something vital. Monks can 1207 from guarded, then feint while their target is already disabled, then ambush or any number of other methods of killing.

the mstrike changes are fan-fucking-tastic. and have helped monk hunting considerably.


- I haven't had any problems with monks dying a lot. In fact, compared to the other squares (Warriors / Rogues) the monk has the advantage because it's far easier to 1x spells, and honestly the 1x spells up to 40 for 1220 and 120 is an amazing DS advantage over the other squares and helps fix some of the warding problems. In addition, the new meditation resistance helps because you can customize your damage reduction based on what you're hunting.

monks are safe, especially against purely physical attackers. i'd say if you're not just as if not more effective as a warrior or rogue, even after any HSN unarmed changes, you're doing warrior/rogue very, very wrong.


- Getting to cap with any class is a monumental undertaking. You're talking about potentially years from now. Try focusing on rolling one for the sake of enjoying the playstyle. Monks bring nothing to the game outside of combat. They lack utility apart from their group spells (which don't work with F2P).

this. your only "utility" that doesn't require you to be hunting in a group are two spells easily found on scrolls (1204/1208), and to a lesser extent 1235.


- Gear is the player's decision. The Monk is designed to work in Robes as their armor base (you wear them because the enchant adds directly to your DS, without robes you will not get armor DS benefits). Anything higher than robes negates the Iron Hide (1202) spell, but there are some monks that train AU and wear plate instead because you cannot get the CvA vs warding spells with Iron Hide. However, AU training is expensive for Monks (comparatively), so most Monks opt out of training anything into Armor Use, and just wear robes with 1202 running. If you go the UAC route, I recommend finding flaring equipment. Especially if you can get your hands on those 6x greater elemental flaring UAC gloves from Duskruin. Those will be amazing with 2s Jabs, 3s Punche/Grapples.

I wish those damn greater elemental gloves were added before i sunk a bunch of necrojuice into the 5x normal flaring. There's also the 5x SWCW which are an option if you hate flares for some reason. I've been meaning to get a set to play with how reliable it might make aimed neck jabs on tier1. fun fact: armor use at 10/0 would be cheaper for me to train than transform lore at 0/12. I'm HEAVILY PTP -> MTP converted as is. (stats placed for growth and a relatively high spell training regimen). That said I went all in with "monkness" when i started my path down gemstone hard mode and invested in good armor (7x fusion) pretty earily. The meditative resistance helps, i would have killed actually to have meditative puncture resistance for the like, 30 levels I was consistently hunting things that spike thorn.


One nice advantage to the UAC Monk style is that you are completely immune to various weapon-based disadvantages. Things like disarm, weapon fire, and sunder (shield) will never factor into your combat. You can fight things most folks avoid because of this combat style. They are not "gearless". You still want armor (robes), weapons (gloves & boots). In addition, the robes inflict no spell hindrance and you will have the AsG of higher armor classes while still being able to cast spells.

The major disadvantage to their lower gear requirements are:

1. Fewer options for Fusion gear when you don't equip weapons or shields
2. You can't benefit from a handful of spells (like 1605) or use various CMANs
3. Your armor can be dispelled!!!

I really dislike the lack of cmans for monks overall, just seems lacking. But if you go for perfect self (which i recommend) it makes points super tight so there isn't exactly a lot of wiggle room. Ki-Focus seems pretty good in theory after the change, I'm working on that now making my points pretty much all spoken for as is.

[Maerit]

I really dislike the lack of cmans for monks overall, just seems lacking. But if you go for perfect self (which i recommend) it makes points super tight so there isn't exactly a lot of wiggle room. Ki-Focus seems pretty good in theory after the change, I'm working on that now making my points pretty much all spoken for as is.

One of the major areas I really think would help Monks is if they gave Monks a few shieldmans - specifically shielded brawler. Adding this in would give monks the ability to equip a T5 ensorcelled buckler that could help with warding issues, but not eliminate the issues. You'd clearly have to train a bunch of ranks of shield use just to unlock that option, but it would increase the combat style from being pure dodge based to have some ability to block as well.

[Androidpk]

I haven't really seen any data on how good weighting is on UAC gear. I've always been under the impression that it doesn't work nearly as well as actual weapons.

[Jawa]

So was does a basic build for a monk look like now - post changes? I have a 40ish monk i may reactivate

[Androidpk]

Add ki focus to your Cmans and add as much MOC as possible.

[Warriorbird]

I haven't really seen any data on how good weighting is on UAC gear. I've always been under the impression that it doesn't work nearly as well as actual weapons.

The MCW stuff is awesome. The SCW stuff is ehhh. Much like weapons, really.

[Donquix]

Add ki focus to your Cmans and add as much MOC as possible.

^

MoC to 30 asap, i'm stopping at 55 for now to move back into dumping everything for spells for 1208 scaling.

ki-focus is nice, even at just 2 ranks now.

By cap you should have for cmans something like:
a stance (krynch is still awesome but not as strictly needed with mstrike and ki-focus)
ki-focus 3
surge + burst rank 3
perfect self 5
focus 5
feint 5
grapple/punch/kick mastery 3 (pick one, punch still likely best)

which if i recall leaves enough points for like, mobility (at least 1 rank)

[Androidpk]

I would go 1x MOC at the very least but I'm a huge fan of that. I'd have to check but I think my monk is almost 2x MOC.

[Zho]

1x MOC is love.

[Jawa]

tips on how to fixskills this guy?


Race: Giantman
Profession: Monk
Shown: No
-----
Gender: Male
Age: 41
Expr: 2053334
Level: 44
-----
Norm.(Bon.) / Enh.(Bon.)
STR: 100 (40) / 108 (44)
CON: 86 (28) / 94 (32)
DEX: 68 (4) / 76 (8)
AGI: 100 (20) / 108 (24)
DIS: 94 (22) / 102 (26)
AUR: 88 (14) / 96 (18)
LOG: 84 (12) / 92 (16)
INT: 55 (2) / 63 (6)
WIS: 79 (14) / 87 (18)
INF: 58 (9) / 66 (13)
Mana: 93
Silver: 127


(at level 44), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 105 25
Combat Maneuvers...................| 192 92
Brawling...........................| 192 92
Ambush.............................| 105 25
Physical Fitness...................| 192 92
Dodging............................| 192 92
Harness Power......................| 120 30
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 70 15
Perception.........................| 146 46
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 90 20

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 7

Spell Lists
Minor Mental.......................| 20
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

[mgoddess]

If you're UAC, make sure you train sufficiently to aim your strikes. Jab neck will silence a target for a good while, and helps significantly in avoiding being warded.
What sort of training would make this possible?

[Zho]

What sort of training would make this possible?

Ambush and Cman are the primary contributing success factors I believe. UAC possesses inherent disablers that make these open, aimed strikes incredibly useful.

[Androidpk]

What sort of training would make this possible?

Aiming from the open is mostly CM and a little bit of ambush. 40 ranks of ambush seems to be the sweet spot.

[mgoddess]

Ambush and Cman are the primary contributing success factors I believe. UAC possesses inherent disablers that make these open, aimed strikes incredibly useful.


Aiming from the open is mostly CM and a little bit of ambush. 40 ranks of ambush seems to be the sweet spot.

Good to know, guess I'll be picking up some ambush over my next few trainings, then...

[Donquix]

Good to know, guess I'll be picking up some ambush over my next few trainings, then...

I have 20 ranks, mainly because I picked that up when i was still THW in the lower levels and just left it when fixskilled to UAC. I can't say i miss much. I aim for the head, leg if i can't reach it. The priority generally goes. I'll bump it up to 40 ranks probably, someday. But i don't in any way feel the need to.

does the thing start in a defensive stance? if yes, feint.
|---> mstrike on cooldown?
|-----------> if no, focused mstrike punch.
|-----------> if yes, can I proc krynch?
|-------------------> if no, unaimed jab
|-------------------> if yes, can i i reach the head?
|--------------------------> if yes, punch head
|--------------------------> if no, punch leg

repeat with following tierups instead of normal punches. mix in 1219, 1218, or 1207/1210 (my cs is good, why not get some phantom weighting with my knockdown) as needed. I also pop ki-focus as I wander around from room to room looking for the next target, or if it's a dangerous creature i need to make sure dies fast.