HSN:ELR - StonebSkin (520) Updated!

[bp0731]

The following update has been made to Stone Skin (520). Training in Elemental Lore, Earth provides a % chance, using a seed 9 summation, for a reactive vibration flares to occur when struck with an AS/DS attack.

Enjoy!

GameMaster Cyraex

[Tgo01]

Sounds kind of useless.

[Astray]

Missed opportunity to make this epic. It's nice, but not epic.

[Viekn]

Missed opportunity to make this epic. It's nice, but not epic.

Maybe, but we have to remember, this is an elemental lore review, not a wizard spell review. The spell is still nice. And when/if your build can work in earth lore, it will be even nicer.

[Taernath]

So for a 10% chance you'd need 135 ranks? I guess... it depends on how hard these flares are. I think I'd rather just not get hit in the first place. Maybe serious earth mages will like it.

[Tgo01]

I think I'd rather just not get hit in the first place.

That's what I'm thinking. Maybe at lower levels it would be decent, but at cap fighting capped critters, the last thing I want to do is get hit with an AS/DS attack. Unless the percent chance is to instantly kill whatever hit me then it's going to be largely useless.

[Vorpodu]

If I were a wizard I'd be pissed. Sorcerer's Pestilence activates even if they aren't hit. This should be the same if you ask me.

[Astray]

a wizard spell review

I cringe at the thought.

[Silvean]

If I were a wizard I'd be pissed. Sorcerer's Pestilence activates even if they aren't hit. This should be the same if you ask me.

Pestilence provides a 25% chance to activate at base with a hidden CS roll (not a flare). That's the base spell.

The seed 9 on this Stone Skin effect seems a bit much. Why not seed 1? Who the hell wants to get hit anyway?

[Latrinsorm]

wizards op

[Astray]

I would have much rather seen the spell do something similar to Pestilence. Except, y'know, rock-like?

Say you have Air + Earth. You'd fling rocks at an opponent's weapon before a guaranteed hit, resulting in a chance to disarm an opponent and cause RT. Maybe even break the damn thing.

Say you have Water + Earth. The armor would be like mud. You could evade a guaranteed hit by slipping out of the armor. The result could be an opponent slips up, gets knocked prone and given some RT. Maybe a slowing effect?

Say you have Fire + Earth. Fucking Magma armor? Shit explodes on a successful hit, fire flare Minor/Major fireball. Caster is safe.

Solo Earth Lores? Make that shit harder, have weapons bounce off it at or be disarmed? Something better than the current spell as it stands. Am I alone in wanting Lores to interact with one another like this?

[Silvean]

Yeah, but the core effect of Stone Skin is not a reactive flare; it's the ability to absorb damage. Would it be worth trading that base spell effect for something like Pestilence?

I think lores are usually disappointing. They're just not designed to be an awesome source of power; a really cool and practical lore effect seems to be the exception.

[Taernath]

Has anything been released with fire lore yet?

[caelric]

Yeah, but the core effect of Stone Skin is not a reactive flare; it's the ability to absorb damage. Would it be worth trading that base spell effect for something like Pestilence?

I think lores are usually disappointing. They're just not designed to be an awesome source of power; a really cool and practical lore effect seems to be the exception.

Likely, yes. Given the light/no armor that warmages wear, any hit, even with damage reduction, is going to probably get them killed. Flares on misses (similar to 716) would have been much better.

[Astray]

Would it be worth trading that base spell effect for something like Pestilence?

Yes. Have you seen that shit?

[Tgo01]

I think a more awesome change would be the spell has a chance to reduce all physical damage (not just AS/DS, but no spell damage) by a percentage.

So like every threshold would not only increase the chance of the shield flaring but also increases the percent damage reduction. Like at max lore benefit there is a 50% chance to reduce all physical damage by 50%

[Taernath]

I think a more awesome change would be the spell has a chance to reduce all physical damage (not just AS/DS, but no spell damage) by a percentage.

So like every threshold would not only increase the chance of the shield flaring but also increases the percent damage reduction. Like at max lore benefit there is a 50% chance to reduce all physical damage by 50%

Wizdux OP

[Fallen]

They keep going with these high seeds. I thought once they hit closed circles they would ease up a bit. This should have been seed 3 tops.

Wizards need to be able to 3x lores. The cost for that 3rd rank would be through the roof anyway and everything is balanced by seed limitations so it wouldn't be overpowered.

[SashaFierce]

They keep going with these high seeds. This should have been seed 3 tops.

From 13% (Seed 9) to 17% (Seed 3) wouldn't make much of a difference, IMO.

A reactive flare is an insignificant addition for a Wizard.

[Fallen]

So why not make it seed 1?

[SashaFierce]

So why not make it seed 1?

From 13% to 19%.

That's certainly better, but if you're a Wizard, you're going to do everything you can to avoid being hit in the first place.

I think some other type of protection would have been much better. ASG like 1202, or crit padding keeping the Seed 9. (+13 {VHCP} at 195 ranks) Someone smarter than I would have to do the math, but that would take full leather to what, brigandine?

[Fallen]

Well, the spell has other uses as well in the form of damage padding, so we cannot discount that aspect. Ultimately, I agree with you that it still is pretty much imperative that the wizard not be hit at all with AS/DS attacks.

Your change sounds like a good one considering wizards and hindrance. Might as well suggest it on the officials.

[caelric]

Well, the spell has other uses as well in the form of damage padding, so we cannot discount that aspect. Ultimately, I agree with you that it still is pretty much imperative that the wizard not be hit at all with AS/DS attacks.

Your change sounds like a good one considering wizards and hindrance. Might as well suggest it on the officials.

Apparently, unless you are Krakii or Doug, and you come up with fucktarded suggestions, nothing seems to get adopted (said with only slightly tongue in cheek)

[Whirlin]

Apparently, unless you are Krakii or Doug, and you come up with fucktarded suggestions, nothing seems to get adopted (said with only slightly tongue in cheek)
Yes... Krakii recently said that crit weighting was stupid... And everyone should use damage weighting and flaring weapons!

[caelric]

I'm the one who posted this (which got pulled rather quickly):



Well, one good thing with the move of the GS wiki from KP to 'GS Wiki' is that it no longer gives the (false) implication that Krakii actually knows what he is talking about.

[Tgo01]

Apparently, unless you are Krakii or Doug, and you come up with fucktarded suggestions, nothing seems to get adopted (said with only slightly tongue in cheek)

Krakii is the reason there is someone out there right now inventing a way to slap people through the internet.

[SashaFierce]

I'm the one who posted this (which got pulled rather quickly):

LOL

[Tgo01]

I'm the one who posted this (which got pulled rather quickly):

lmao

That was awesome. I saw it before it was pulled.

[Fallen]

I've been posting a bit as well, shouldn't be hard to guess as who. Try to avoid getting dragged down into a "discussion" with some of those guys and purely focus on offering suggestions/tweaks to the class.

[Tgo01]

I really have to question if any of these GMs actually play the game anymore. Why didn't they at least ask for suggestions or anything? Or did they and someone actually suggested making 520 a reactive flare from a failed AS/DS roll?

I understand they want to like surprise people and shit but it would still be a surprise if they get several suggestions and they can only pick 1.

Let's be honest, when someone sits down and is deciding which lore they want to invest in, no one is going to even take this into account when making the decision. This will not be the deciding factor at all.

[Fallen]

I can't wrap my mind around the crazy high seed choices. 90% of wizards under 30 won't see any of these benefits. Hell, a few just under 50 will be barely making a dent, and that's assuming they're dumping all their lore into 1 of *4* lores.

[Tgo01]

I can't wrap my mind around the crazy high seed choices. 90% of wizards under 30 won't see any of these benefits. Hell, a few just under 50 will be barely making a dent, and that's assuming they're dumping all their lore into 1 of *4* lores.

I agree, they really should move away from this seed shit and onto a better system. Like the first 10 ranks offers a 1% chance each, then the next 20 is .5% chance each. I don't know, something like that.

That way low levels wizards still get some benefit while capped/post cap wizards can become even more powerful.

GMs have said they expect pures such as wizards to 1x in lores, okay so make lores useful at every stage then. 9 ranks of lore for a 1% chance at a reactive flare from 520 is literally useless. Yes, I said literally.

[Astray]

I really have to question if any of these GMs actually play the game anymore. Why didn't they at least ask for suggestions or anything? Or did they and someone actually suggested making 520 a reactive flare from a failed AS/DS roll?

I understand they want to like surprise people and shit but it would still be a surprise if they get several suggestions and they can only pick 1.

Let's be honest, when someone sits down and is deciding which lore they want to invest in, no one is going to even take this into account when making the decision. This will not be the deciding factor at all.

It's clear they don't focus test or even bother asking players what they would want. Shit just happens and they don't bother going "Fuck, our bad, let's fix it".

[Taernath]

I can't wrap my mind around the crazy high seed choices. 90% of wizards under 30 won't see any of these benefits. Hell, a few just under 50 will be barely making a dent, and that's assuming they're dumping all their lore into 1 of *4* lores.

I think there's an assumption among some GMs that most people are at or near cap. I don't really know if that's true or not, but it's how I rationalize they tweak things.

[Whirlin]

I'm the one who posted this (which got pulled rather quickly):
That is fucking amazing

[Whirlin]

Starting my Twitch stream up again to discuss and such~

[Lord Orbstar]

I can't wrap my mind around the crazy high seed choices. 90% of wizards under 30 won't see any of these benefits. Hell, a few just under 50 will be barely making a dent, and that's assuming they're dumping all their lore into 1 of *4* lores.

I will seed you down low or high. You have a choice with me.

[Warriorbird]

This is...pretty pointless. I hope more is coming in the 500s for war mages.

[Taernath]

This is...pretty pointless. I hope more is coming in the 500s for war mages.

500's are pretty much done, except for 540 Temporal Prolapse. If I were to guess, it would be air lore because of wibbly wobbly timey wimey.

[Fallen]

They're jumping around. I think there will be more.

[kcostell]

To quote Estlid from the forums (Major Elemental folder):


And as noted many times, no spell by itself will generally make training a lore worth it. Would I train 100 ranks of EL:E for an 8% chance of reactive flares? No. But I would consider 100 EL:E ranks for 8% chance to negate all AS/DS attacks from 414, reduced haste cooldown, +AS from 509, +DF for 510, extra features from 514, extra charges and higher EBP penalty on 909, more targets for 917, able to enchant vibration flaring weapons, and other unreleased bonuses from 411, 412, 430, 507, 508, 902, 904, 905, 914.

Sounds like a lot of stuff left to go.

[Astray]

And as noted many times, no spell by itself will generally make training a lore worth it. Would I train 100 ranks of EL:E for an 8% chance of reactive flares? No. But I would consider 100 EL:E ranks for 8% chance to negate all AS/DS attacks from 414, reduced haste cooldown, +AS from 509, +DF for 510, extra features from 514, extra charges and higher EBP penalty on 909, more targets for 917, able to enchant vibration flaring weapons, and other unreleased bonuses from 411, 412, 430, 507, 508, 902, 904, 905, 914.

Ugh, this one annoys me. Let's not muddy things up here, the wording makes it abundantly clear that the lower levels are ignored. Shouldn't they be prioritized? Isn't the entire point of training in something completely useless in every aspect but the spells they affect meant to give you more than a piss-poor 8% chance?

That's not even carrot-and-stick, for fucks sake. That's nothing. 8% is fucking nothing at the max lore benefit because by the time you hit that, you're not even gonna need that measly percentage. Jesus.

[kcostell]

Enough 8% chances and they add up to something good though.

[Astray]

Enough 8% chances and they add up to something good though.

The benefit of negating damage is great. Should it be so small? No. Should it be large? No. The issue is that the effort to activate that 8% doesn't come until much, much later. At which point, you should be able to take care of yourself well enough.

Temporal Reversion has a much greater chance at max lores. I'm just saying have perspective of the effort and levels at which the % is set to max out at.

[Androidpk]

They said they wanted to focus on post-cap training.

[Astray]

They said they wanted to focus on post-cap training.

That's fucking garbage.

[Androidpk]

That's fucking garbage.

How so?

[Astray]

How so?

Adding effects to a spell that's locked away until much later? At a laughably underwhelming percent? Why even bother? Why not just stick to core training and get that additional boost to casting AS when it comes? Why even have the effect at all? At a lower level, you're investing extra points and effort into something that doesn't pan out.

Just have it unlock at Cap. Shit, I'd be fucking happier if they just said "Yo, this is happening at Cap. Grats."

[Androidpk]

You are one angsty stoner

[Astray]

I will bite your nipple off.

[subzero]

I really have to question if any of these GMs actually play the game anymore. Why didn't they at least ask for suggestions or anything?

The answer to this was obvious to me back when they made some of the sorcerer changes a while back (740 being the main culprit), at least as far as their playing sorcerers went.

[Fallen]

I've made a small update to Stone Skin (520) such that the lore benefit for the reactive flare now uses a seed 1 summation to determine the chance to trigger. In addition, the flare's minimal damage has been significantly raised. Both of these updates only apply toward creature attackers.

GameMaster Estild

[Donquix]

6% increase to flare at ~100 lore compared to the old seed.

better, curious to see how hard it actually hits now.

[Fallen]

I just don't understand why the spell doesn't soak up any hit until the point where it shatters. Not a percentage, but a flat amount. The more Earth lore you have, the more it will soak up before breaking. Seems pretty straight forward.

[Taernath]

Unless the 'significantly raised' minimum damage kills or incapacitates the creature, it still sounds like a fundamentally flawed spell. Wizards don't want to get hit. Just change the damage flare to some kind of absorb or deflect.

[Fallen]

If it flat out ate the damage coming in off of an AS/DS attack, it would be useful even to those without much training in Earth Lore.

Lets say Stone Skin at base grants 20 health worth of protection. It will knock 20 points off of any AS/DS attack before shattering. If you get hit for less than 20, no damage. If you get hit for more than 20, it takes the damage off the top and reduces the severity of the wound by reducing the phantom damage and as such, the crit rank.

Even with no lore, that's pretty damn nice. Not only is it +20 health, it will also result in not getting a stun, or a flare, or reducing a killing blow to one you can weather before you're out of RT/Stun.

Start investing in some lore, and suddenly you can eat a shot for 50 damage, either by outright absorbing it, or reducing the damage/crit off the top.

Sure, even with max lore it will only eat 2-3 very hard shots before you're toast, but those are precious seconds between the creature's attacks. If you go down in a swarm you're still fucked, but if a creature got off a lucky CMAN/E-wave while you're in offensive, it will save your ass.

[m444w]

Wonder how this affects hunting Grimswarm or other shit that uses stone skin... Going to suck if they insta-gank you with 520 now.

Also, still better than stunmans.

[Fallen]

This new tweak only applies to wizards, not monsters

[audioserf]

716 existing is going to render any mildly tweaked iteration of 520 they can crap out pretty horrible, to be honest. 716 is amazing, and for 4 less mana. Wizards don't care about damage padding, because they can't take a hit. 716 procs on misses. How they can let that spell exist and defend 520 is laughable.

[Donquix]

plus it has an innate what...+20%? Stoneskin is purely reactive in nature and only receives the seed percentage. They overvalue the damage padding signifficantly.

I'm sure it's saved my wizard's life once or twice in like...the 70+ levels he's had it.

[SashaFierce]

plus it has an innate what...+20%? Stoneskin is purely reactive in nature and only receives the seed percentage. They overvalue the damage padding signifficantly.

I'm sure it's saved my wizard's life once or twice in like...the 70+ levels he's had it.

716 has a base 25%

[Maerit]

Why wouldn't they upgrade 540 instead of 520? 540 seems like the best opportunity to give Wizards some more reliable defensive options through training paths than 520...

Reactive flares that require you to get hit are mostly worthless for pures. If anything, they should remove the damage component from this flare entirely and convert it into a chance when being attacked (successful or otherwise) to activate a Tremor that is 25% as effective as a normal tremor, but the effectiveness can be improved via training in... (not a Lore).

[SashaFierce]

Why wouldn't they upgrade 540 instead of 520? 540 seems like the best opportunity to give Wizards some more reliable defensive options through training paths than 520...

Reactive flares that require you to get hit are mostly worthless for pures. If anything, they should remove the damage component from this flare entirely and convert it into a chance when being attacked (successful or otherwise) to activate a Tremor that is 25% as effective as a normal tremor, but the effectiveness can be improved via training in... (not a Lore).

I wouldn't count on a tremor being any more successful in keeping you alive.

For the most part, when you cast 909, things fall over, and then things immediately stand back up.

[Donquix]

I wouldn't count on a tremor being any more successful in keeping you alive.

For the most part, when you cast 909, things fall over, and then things immediately stand back up.

which is the point, if they're taking a stand action they aren't casting or attacking generally. it's not perfect but it helps, tremors has saved my life waaaaaaaaaay more than 520 ever will.

[SashaFierce]

which is the point, if they're taking a stand action they aren't casting or attacking generally. it's not perfect but it helps, tremors has saved my life waaaaaaaaaay more than 520 ever will.

Not everything can be knocked down by tremors, especially at cap. Some things will also cast at you from the ground.

It's not the solution for this spell.

[Maerit]

Not everything can be knocked down by tremors, especially at cap. Some things will also cast at you from the ground.

It's not the solution for this spell.

What's your solution? Make wizards have a passive defense that always activates if you're trained and cripples your enemies? I mean that seems to be what people are asking for here... Wizards are vulnerable. They should have some kind of vulnerability. The problem is that they're slightly too vulnerable.

The current flare off Stone Skin does nothing to address that slight vulnerability. Giving a passive tremors would help in a ton of areas of the game - even post cap areas. Not for 100% every single creature, but a nice chunk of them.

I can make the same case against calling Pestilence as a "defense" for Sorcerers. Not every single creature can be stunned (which is also not always going to happen against creatures that can be stunned either), therefore Pestilence is not a defensive "solution" for Sorcerers.

Seriously - there has to be some middle ground...

[Fallen]

One spell tweak isn't going to provide the solution. At least not in any sort of well rounded way. They need a spell review.

The concept of a bolting wizard is kinda shitty. They need to fix that, not tweak a few values here and there.

[SashaFierce]

What's your solution? Make wizards have a passive defense that always activates if you're trained and cripples your enemies? I mean that seems to be what people are asking for here... Wizards are vulnerable. They should have some kind of vulnerability. The problem is that they're slightly too vulnerable.

The current flare off Stone Skin does nothing to address that slight vulnerability. Giving a passive tremors would help in a ton of areas of the game - even post cap areas. Not for 100% every single creature, but a nice chunk of them.

I can make the same case against calling Pestilence as a "defense" for Sorcerers. Not every single creature can be stunned (which is also not always going to happen against creatures that can be stunned either), therefore Pestilence is not a defensive "solution" for Sorcerers.

Seriously - there has to be some middle ground...


I agree the flare is useless. But a tremor would not be much better. You get stunned for 5 rounds, a tremor goes off, creature falls over, creature stands up, creature smashes your face in. I don't think tremors works as well as you think it works, especially at cap.


Wizards are the weakest class when it comes to TD. Isn't that good enough?

[Maerit]

I agree the flare is useless. But a tremor would not be much better. You get stunned for 5 rounds, a tremor goes off, creature falls over, creature stands up, creature smashes your face in. I don't think tremors works as well as you think it works, especially at cap.


Wizards are the weakest class when it comes to TD. Isn't that good enough?

Well, besides monks... but still what does a Sorcerer have that a Wizard is missing which makes them able to survive? Maneuvers, I think we can agree, are the primary banes to both pures in this case. The fact that a Wizard has a lower spiritual TD?

The reason this change was even implemented (poorly) is because people were complaining that Wizards did not have anything similar to Pestilence, and then when something (stupid) was added to alter an existing spell to have a reactive flare the Wizard community slapped that idea down immediately. I grant that it was a bad band-aid, but shouldn't there be some kind of compromise? Do folks actually expect to get a fully functional Pestilence(esque) effect incorporated into the existing functionality of Stone Skin because that's what this argument sounds like based on previous posts...

[Fallen]

There is an opportunity cost to having a 20th level spell slot taken up by Stone Skin. Is Stone Skin in its current form worth that spell slot to you, Maerit?

[SashaFierce]

Well, besides monks... but still what does a Sorcerer have that a Wizard is missing which makes them able to survive? Maneuvers, I think we can agree, are the primary banes to both pures in this case. The fact that a Wizard has a lower spiritual TD?

The reason this change was even implemented (poorly) is because people were complaining that Wizards did not have anything similar to Pestilence, and then when something (stupid) was added to alter an existing spell to have a reactive flare the Wizard community slapped that idea down immediately. I grant that it was a bad band-aid, but shouldn't there be some kind of compromise? Do folks actually expect to get a fully functional Pestilence(esque) effect incorporated into the existing functionality of Stone Skin because that's what this argument sounds like based on previous posts...

I don't know of any wizard who actually wants a reactive flare. All they did was change the percentage from 13% to 19% at 2x lore. I could care less about this spell and until recently I didn't even cast it because it was a waste of 20 mana.

I don't know why you're bringing up sorcerers, but I would argue that their best defense is an incredibly strong offense.

[Maerit]

There is an opportunity cost to having a 20th level spell slot taken up by Stone Skin. Is Stone Skin in its current form worth that spell slot to you, Maerit?

Unfortunately, it is not my decision to make whether the spell is worth a 20th level spell slot. I agree that it could be improved - however I disagree that the correct way to improve the spell is by incorporating something "as strong" as Pestilence while also retaining the existing damage reduction feature at the same time.

The 20th spell for MjS is a utility spell and isn't even directly beneficial in combat, so I guess I would disagree that the 20th spell for MjE needs to be significantly more powerful in combat based on that comparison alone. I already suggested a pretty useful feature to 520 - and at the same time indicated that the missed opportunity would be to improve 540 and make it, at the very least, work against all forms of attack.


I don't know of any wizard who actually wants a reactive flare. All they did was change the percentage from 13% to 19% at 2x lore. I could care less about this spell and until recently I didn't even cast it because it was a waste of 20 mana.

I don't know why you're bringing up sorcerers, but I would argue that their best defense is an incredibly strong offense.

I didn't bring up Sorcerers. Everyone seems to want to compare the 520 change to Pestilence (a sorcerer spell) and if you read the officials the comments directly responding to the GM who asked how Sorcerers handle hunting in these post-cap areas immediately respond with 716 for some reason - as if 716 is saving Sorcerer lives frequently.

[Fallen]

The damage reduction could likely be scrapped completely and Wizards wouldn't care all that much. Wizards would take Major Sanct over Stone Skin, I'd wager. The Problem is they'd much rather take Cloak of Shadows, a 12th level spell. That being said, I do agree with you that Tremors as a reactive flare would be much better.

[Donquix]

Unfortunately, it is not my decision to make whether the spell is worth a 20th level spell slot. I agree that it could be improved - however I disagree that the correct way to improve the spell is by incorporating something "as strong" as Pestilence while also retaining the existing damage reduction feature at the same time.

The 20th spell for MjS is a utility spell and isn't even directly beneficial in combat, so I guess I would disagree that the 20th spell for MjE needs to be significantly more powerful in combat based on that comparison alone. I already suggested a pretty useful feature to 520 - and at the same time indicated that the missed opportunity would be to improve 540 and make it, at the very least, work against all forms of attack.



I didn't bring up Sorcerers. Everyone seems to want to compare the 520 change to Pestilence (a sorcerer spell) and if you read the officials the comments directly responding to the GM who asked how Sorcerers handle hunting in these post-cap areas immediately respond with 716 for some reason - as if 716 is saving Sorcerer lives frequently.

716 saves my sorcerers life regularly. It's not just the percent flare chance (which is already considerably higher), but that it flares on misses. If a creature even looks at me funny, they have a 1/3 chance of getting stunned passively by 716. Even when it's not saving my sorcerers life it's saving him mana during a hunt because things are routinely dying to it between my other spell casts. It's an incredibly powerful spell.

Direct spell comparisons in a bubble are typically not helpful, you need to look at classes as a whole. This discrepancy between the two spells made a lot more sense a week ago. However sorcerers and wizards are much more analogous for this comparison in a post rapid fire, nerfed haste world. If they were roughly the same usefulness it would make sense, profession lists are supposed to be stronger than non-profession lists (even if MjE is a defacto profession list). But they aren't kind of the same power. Pestilence is like lol fucking crazy good, and you could literally take 520 away from me and I wouldn't even notice.

[Maerit]

716 saves my sorcerers life regularly.

Someday I'd love to see some clips of this actually happening. I just disable things before they can bother me on my Sorcerer.

[subzero]

Someday I'd love to see some clips of this actually happening. I just disable things before they can bother me on my Sorcerer.

There will always be unavoidable instances of being in danger. Whether it's something that happens when a critter enters the room (or you run into a room and get hit before you can blink), something from another room affecting you or random environmental hazards, fumbling that spell you're relying on to take a critter out before he gets you, etc. You simply can't expect to always be able to get the first shot in. It's not going to happen.

[Donquix]

Someday I'd love to see some clips of this actually happening. I just disable things before they can bother me on my Sorcerer.

yeah, nothing in the game ever happens unexpectedly or outside of your control. You have a point. Bandits don't ambush, never walk in on critters with spells already prepped, nothing like griffins entering the room with a screech. Nope, everything is completely avoidable if all you do is hunt under level 60 or exclusively in fantasyland.

[drauz]

Someday I'd love to see some clips of this actually happening. I just disable things before they can bother me on my Sorcerer.

I don't have logs put get RT when something enters the room, then put in offensive. The creature attacks and connects for a small stun but pestilence hits him and stuns him for more rounds than me. I live and walk away. Doesn't happen all the time, but when it does...

[Fallen]

I wish I had 716 when I was hunting OTF back in the day. All those times when you're hit with a screech for a 20 second fun pause you'd still be doing active damage.

[Astray]

Guys, shut up! Do you want 716 to be nerfed?!

[drauz]

Guys, shut up! Do you want 716 to be nerfed?!

After this wizard fiasco I get the feeling that no GMs are going to want to touch spell/skill reviews for A LONG time.

Welcome to GP wizards.

[subzero]

Welcome to GP wizards.

Yeah, baby! Attrition-based combat mode in full motherfuckin effizzect!