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Goat
08-05-2015, 11:45 PM
Basics

There are three components to a rotflare:


Initial flare damage, average of 19 over 307 observations against polar bears/mammoths (and there's an injury, too). Seems independent of necro ranks. Edit: 20 average over 643 flares during normal hunting in capped areas.
Visible damage over time, average of 7 over 29 observations (and injury too). Don't know if necro ranks matter. I suspect not.
Invisible disease damage, ranging from 7-13 per with no necro ranks to 61-88 per with 180 ranks (no extra injury). Dissipating at 1-3 per round. This range holds for both weapons and runestaves.


Findings

Flare rate
Wyrom told me that the flare rate increases at 36, 136, and 171 necro ranks.

Ranks | Flares | Hits | Percent
0 | 15 | 53 | 28%
90* | 13 | 39 | 33%
136 | 42 | 100 | 42%
171** | 15 | 15 | 100%

*Going by Wyrom's word, this would be the same at 36 ranks.
*100% flares with a runestaff at 180 ranks - haven't tested thoroughly with any less.

I tested on polar bears and mammoths only, with a lance. I didn't count hits that both killed the target AND did not cause a flare, since damage flares can't happen then.

I also tested on players (or they tested on me) to get the disease amounts.

According to Wyrom, the visible DoT and disease cannot be re-applied to a target that is already experiencing them, and I haven't seen anything to contradict that. (Rotflares DoT seems not to conflict with 716 DoT.)

Damage over time
Happens three seconds after the first strike, and then every 10 seconds after that. Does not stack.

Disease
With no necro ranks, we saw a 10 per disease, dissipating at 2 per (2 trials).
With 180 necro ranks, we saw 79/3, 75/2, and 64/2.
The disease rounds are slow - 30 seconds per round. However, the first disease round happens when the first visible DoT damage occurs, which is right around 3 seconds after the first flare. Does not stack.

Opinion
If you can't find any TPs for necro ranks, it's really not going to be worth paying 50m+ for rotflares, unless you've got a weapon that you can't upgrade any farther and you have to take that opportunity to squeeze one more thing into it.

If you can do 36 necro ranks, then you'll flare a little more and your disease will get big enough to matter some. That's kind of cool, but still not worth spending a fortune on.

If you have 171 ranks, it's pretty great. Normal flares are about 25% proc on weapons, about 15% on runestaves. So it's a bit like having four flares added to your weapon or 6.7 added to your runestaff.

At first, I thought the huge disease wasn't useful - if you have to wait 30 seconds, everything will always be dead before it triggers. But now I see the first round happening 3 seconds in, and it's at like 3-4 times the damage of a normal flare. Nice! I can sometimes hit a triton (300 hp) for 220 normal damage on the first shot. Between the flare, disease, and first DoT, it's probably going to be dead before I'm out of RT.

I do appreciate the little damage over time, too... it does occasionally finish something.

Fun Fact
My only death crit in my first ~500 hits was on the very first test shot on Omrii - took his head, neck, and eye.

Thanks
My thanks to Omrii for being both an attacker and victim with my lance, and to Skarrd for keeping us healed. Thanks to Meb, Siierra, and Ragz for help in testing with my runestaff.

Androidpk
08-05-2015, 11:57 PM
100% flare rate @ 171 ranks? Up from 42% @ 132? Seems wonky.

Goat
08-06-2015, 12:46 AM
Another sorcerer has seen the same from 171. From Wyrom's own mouth:

Wyrom says, "172 is pretty much every swing."
(But he actually meant 171 and we cleared that up)
I added most of the conversation I had with him to https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Rotflares

Androidpk
08-06-2015, 12:50 AM
Crazy. Basically becomes an immolation weapon, minus the wave action.

Goat
08-06-2015, 12:34 PM
It could be that the actual flare table is 1 in 4, then 1 in 3, then 1 in 2, then 1 in 1. The largest error would be 8% on the 50% case. With 100 trials, that has a stddev of 5, which would yield an error of 8 flares about 5% of the time. Maybe not super-likely, but there's a pleasing aesthetic to it, so I wouldn't be surprised if he designed it that way. On next fixskill, I may do some more trials at the 136 level.

caelric
08-06-2015, 01:15 PM
Wow. 100% flare rate. Possibly worth going that high in necro lore, although it means your demon lore is going to suck. OTOH, with that much necro lore, you will be harvesting necro juice pretty quickly

caelric
08-06-2015, 01:17 PM
Also, I can confirm that rotflares ARE compatible with blink weapons (after looking at your convo with Wyrom, that wasn't mentioned) Getting a GM to add them to a blink weapon might be an issue, but they are compatible.

Goat
08-06-2015, 02:12 PM
My demon lore already sucked, heh. No loss there. I just had to give up my fun mutant mstrikes, basically, to get from 90 to 180. That and some perception.

Re: blink and rot - Wyrom confirmed compatibility of a bunch of scripts on the officials during this Duskruin run. At first he said he wouldn't allow adding rotflares to blink weapons, but then said they were compatible. I wasn't entirely clear on whether he was also saying "and yes, I'll add rot to blink if you buy a certificate" but I think that's where he went with it.

I'd love to get blink, too, someday. But in the mean time, I can pretend I'm using a blink weapon with new 716 in it :-)

caelric
08-06-2015, 03:38 PM
8x perfect blink T5 rotflares MCW greatsword for my hasted sorcerer. In Plat, though.

As I work up my necro lore, 100% rotflare rate would be awesome. Overkill, but still awesome

thesupman
08-06-2015, 05:05 PM
8x perfect blink T5 rotflares MCW greatsword for my hasted sorcerer. In Plat, though.

As I work up my necro lore, 100% rotflare rate would be awesome. Overkill, but still awesome

What no permabless? Noob!

Goat
08-06-2015, 09:16 PM
What no permabless? Noob!
That's the one thing I try to remember when I cry myself to sleep at night about his greataxe - my weapon is blessable!


As I work up my necro lore, 100% rotflare rate would be awesome. Overkill, but still awesome
You have a 8x perfect blink T5 rotflares MCW greatsword... and NOW is when you start thinking it's overkill? :-)

Androidpk
08-06-2015, 09:25 PM
That's the one thing I try to remember when I cry myself to sleep at night about his greataxe - my weapon is blessable!




You mean greatsword. What are the stats on your lance?

Goat
08-06-2015, 10:24 PM
Also 8x perfect t5 rotflares, but the only other thing on it is ironwright flares (holy/impact/acid/web).

Goat
08-07-2015, 12:45 AM
Updated - the disease part seems pretty awesome, actually.

Goat
08-07-2015, 03:45 AM
Added average damage from flare and visible DoT

Ardwen
08-07-2015, 04:28 AM
rotflares dont hit overkill level til UB is involved, that is common knowledge

Goat
08-07-2015, 12:09 PM
I ... don't know what UB is.

Edit: Wait, wait. Undead bane?

Goat
09-13-2015, 10:40 PM
I have a rotstaff now, too, so I did some testing on it.

* 100% flares with 180 necro ranks (I assume would hold true at 171 again, but I haven't tried anything below 180)
* 61-88 per disease rounds with 180 necro ranks, basically in line with what we saw with a lance. (6 trials)
* 7-13 per disease round with 0 necro ranks (2 trials)
* The first disease round takes place in ~2 seconds even on players, not just on creatures.

Updated OP with these findings.

Androidpk
09-13-2015, 10:45 PM
Logs, man, logs!

Fallen
09-13-2015, 10:49 PM
I gotta get me one of those when I get back.

Androidpk
09-13-2015, 10:50 PM
Really wish there was a demon lore type flare analogue to this.

Fallen
09-13-2015, 10:54 PM
Really wish there was a demon lore type flare analogue to this.

Yeah, if you have a rot flare weapon at/post cap, they make your lore training choice very easy. You still want a baseline amount of demonology, around 50 ranks, but you can still hit 100% flare rate with some enhancives.

Androidpk
09-13-2015, 10:58 PM
It's more of an RP thing, wanting to go demon over necro.

Androidpk
09-13-2015, 11:00 PM
Goat, with 180 necro ranks how much HP can you siphon back with 701?

caelric
09-13-2015, 11:51 PM
Used to be demon lore was the lore most sorcs trained in, now it's reversed. Anyways, I fixskilled to 180 ranks of necro lore recently, and along with 100% flare rate on my rotflared greatsword of doom, the followon damage cycle hits pretty heavy, usually enough to kill before I have to swing again.

Goat
09-14-2015, 12:01 AM
Looks like 15 per cast or infusion is my max (tested on a single mammoth)

Androidpk
09-14-2015, 12:24 AM
I meant life leech. With 1 rank of necro lores you can get 1 hp per round on a critter. At 30 ranks I still only get 1 per round.

Goat
09-14-2015, 01:59 AM
By life leach you mean health added to your own total, right? That's what I'm talking about. When I max out the wound (so it no longer says 'the blood gates open wider'), each cast after that gives me 15 health, and each "responds to an infusion..." message gives me 15 health.

Goat
11-04-2015, 02:57 AM
Is this right for number of rotflares items in prime?

5 at EG 2014 merchant - I think a spear, a returner morning star, the IW runestaff, another runestaff, and a mace? Oh, hrm, what did Ardwen do? An e-bow?
bastard sword from EG 2014 digging (+25 and otherwise vanilla, at least initially?)
I guess there was a +27 runestaff from EG 2015 digging
5 nerverot runestaves at first Duskruin run
3+ from Duskruin big ticket. I think Wyrom told me there were 3, but then there were potentially some shenanigans with the 515/506 SK refunds.

So 15-ish

time4fun
11-04-2015, 10:20 AM
The morning star wasn't a returner- it was black ora
Ardwen did a handaxe I believe
I believe the third Duskruin opted to keep their SK item instead

Ardwen
11-04-2015, 12:34 PM
I did a bastard axe

Goat
11-05-2015, 12:10 AM
I think I actually meant returner war hammer. There's definitely one out there. But thanks for the additional info.

time4fun
11-05-2015, 12:49 AM
Yeah, I think you confused the black ora morning star with the mace. And yeah, it went on a returner hammer too.

Goat
11-05-2015, 01:21 AM
I did a bastard axe

Ah, of course you did.

Goat
09-11-2017, 12:26 AM
Is this right for number of rotflares items in prime?

5 at EG 2014 merchant - I think a spear, a returner morning star, the IW runestaff, another runestaff, and a mace? Oh, hrm, what did Ardwen do? An e-bow?
bastard sword from EG 2014 digging (+25 and otherwise vanilla, at least initially?)
I guess there was a +27 runestaff from EG 2015 digging
5 nerverot runestaves at first Duskruin run
3+ from Duskruin big ticket. I think Wyrom told me there were 3, but then there were potentially some shenanigans with the 515/506 SK refunds.

So 15-ish

Since this count, we've had more rotflares. These are the ones I know of:
* 1 from Duskruin auction - must've been some OHB
* 1 from EG tickets auction - must've been another OHB
* 9 CORRECTION: 4 from Aug 2017 Duskruin - anyone know what these certs were used on? (Update: one on a nervestaff)

Ardwen
09-11-2017, 06:56 PM
those prices are stupid

Wrathbringer
09-11-2017, 07:02 PM
those prices are stupid

You ought to know.

Kronius
09-11-2017, 07:19 PM
I thought the first couple hours of this DR they stayed at 250K...

Goat
09-14-2017, 11:45 PM
I think there were only 5 rotflare contracts from DR, and 4 sold:

A sales clerk says, "A yellowed rotflare contract will cost 250000 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase. There are only 5 left!"
A sales clerk says, "A yellowed rotflare contract will cost 312500 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase. There are only 4 left!"
A sales clerk says, "A yellowed rotflare contract will cost 390625 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase. There are only 3 left!"
A sales clerk says, "A yellowed rotflare contract will cost 488281 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase. There are only 2 left!"
A sales clerk says, "A yellowed rotflare contract will cost 610351 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase. There is only 1 left!"


Thanks. I corrected my previous post.

Merzbow
09-15-2017, 02:45 PM
Kronius may have a point... after his post above I looked over my logs again and found that right after the shop opened the clerk was saying:

A sales clerk says, "A yellowed rotflare contract will cost 250000 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

Without the "There are only X left!" text. Also I now recall somebody else on lnet claiming they bought a rotflares contract at 250k. And I also bought an acuity contract (for another staff) as soon as the shop opened at 25k, and noticed the price didn't go up immediately. So apparently the first few hours are special.

Kronius
09-15-2017, 07:10 PM
I'll just say @ 180 ranks of necro, these things are fucking awesome. Two shots of 702 in Nelemar will down almost anything with blood.