This is totally ridiculous

[RAR]

I just wanted to repost my official post here because I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it! :-P Seriously though, shouldn't this system be updated?

Well I just did my last cast on a set of plain 6x armor to take it to 7x and failed. It dropped the enchant down to 5x...

>prep 925
You trace a series of glowing runes while chanting the phrase for Enchant Item...
Your spell is ready.
>cast at my plate
You gesture at some gleaming rolaren full plate.
Multiple bursts of prismatic sparks blossom around the rolaren full plate as you begin your chant, showering you momentarily before a brilliant burst of light erupts from the plate.
Roundtime: 20 sec.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

>prep 405
You gesture and invoke the powers of the elements for the Elemental Detection spell...
Your spell is ready.
>cast at my plate
You gesture at some gleaming rolaren full plate.
The underlying patterns of essence within the rolaren full plate indicate that it has been enchanted, and you notice your own enchanter's mark on it. You recognize the vibrant blue aura surrounding it as indicating a strong level of enchantment.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

I don't know what else to say except that this is ridiculous. What a horrible system. I've had 0 problems since I started the project and all of a sudden I happen to fail the last cast. I almost expected it sadly. I double checked everything and did nothing wrong. My wizard is 69 and more than capable of doing the enchant. Let me just show you the time that has gone into this project...

4-5x
step 1: 01/11/15, 10:15 PM, 4-5 days, done
step 2: 01/16/15, 11:50 PM, 4-5 days, done
step 3: 01/27/15, 12:41 AM, 4-5 days, done
step 4: 2/4/15, 2:56 PM, 5-6 days, done
step 5: 2/9/15, 8:08 PM, 4-5 days, done

5-6x
step 1: 2/14/15, 6-7 days, done
step 2: 2/25/15, 7-8 days, done
step 3: 3/26/15, 8-9 days, done
step 4: 4/5/15, 6-7 days, done
step 5: 4/13/15, 7-8 days, done
step 6: 4/22/15, 6-7 days, done

6-7x
step 1: 4/29/15, 12-13 days, done
step 2: 5/13/15, 12-13 days, done
step 3:5/27/15, 12-13 days, done
step 4: 6/10/15, 12-13 days, done
step 5: 6/23/15, 12-13 days, done
step 6: 7/6/15, 11-12 days, done
step 7: 7/18/15, 13-14 days (around 8/1)

How about we update this system instead of making sorcs the gods of gemstone? I honestly just want to quit and probably will.

[Tgo01]

Yeah it is kind of silly that enchanting still has horrible failures while ensorcelling has literally none.

[Devellaro]

Does ensorcelling take the same amount of time as enchanting?

[Tgo01]

Does ensorcelling take the same amount of time as enchanting?

No. Well, maybe, depends how you look at it.

Going from T4 to T5 is what, 3 weeks I think? That's nothing compared to 6x-7x, which takes months. Both of which are the top ends of normal ensorcelling/enchanting.

Going from T0 to T5 is nothing compared to going from 0x-7x.

If you look at each individual enchant as if they were equal though, that is to say T0 == 0x, then they are probably the same up until you get to the T5/5x level, at which point ensorcelling is still better.

In short, ensorcelling is a complete joke compared to enchanting in terms of risk/reward and time invested. Strange thing is ensorcelling commands about the same amount of silvers too for much less work, but that's more to do with enchanting has been around for decades now while people are still getting their shit ensorcelled.

[rolfard]

rolaren carries a pretty hefty negative mod for BOTH enchant and ensorcelling

[Androidpk]

rolaren carries a pretty hefty negative mod for BOTH enchant and ensorcelling

Which is silly since it is just a plain 4x metal with no special properties.

[Roblar]

Ridiculous, it is A-mazing and someone should buy this one with perm TD for 500k! :p

some polished rolaren full plate
+20, +3 TD

[Allereli]

I just double-checked on the enchant cast and you had a fairly decent (not using the terminology that ensorcell uses, however) chance to fail on the cast. And you only failed by 1 or 2%. I'd definitely not recommend only having 36 wizard spell ranks if you want to attempt an enchant cast that is so high. 7x is pretty high and can be pretty hard. Your spell ranks in the other circles are both nearly more than doubled your wizard spell ranks. There's also the added factor that rolaren is harder to enchant than most metals commonly used. Barring the super rare metals such as zelnorn, adamantine, etc. rolaren is one of the hardest materials to enchant. You definitely would have succeeded in the cast had it been another material type. The final enchant cast is also always the hardest step cast.

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Wizards/Enchanting/view/951

LOL

[Fallen]

Here's hoping that the E-lore review helps take some of the burden of failure/success out of enchanting. That being said, it sounds as if there were definite extenuating circumstances.

[Tgo01]

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Wizards/Enchanting/view/951

LOL

I don't think RAR was complaining about failing, rather he seemed to be complaining that the penalty for failing is so harsh. Even if he had 303 wizard ranks and maxed out everything else with all enhancives and bullshit and whatever there is still a, what, 3% chance of failure? This still could have happened and it's bad enough that it takes like 2 months to go from 6x to 7x but now he's back to 5x meaning it's going to take about a month just to get it back up to 6x.

Meanwhile if this happened to a sorc the sorc would giggle a little bit and try again.

Every time a sorc gets a failure while ensorcelling a wizard gets kicked in the ass by a kobold.

ETA: Also sorcs get a preemptive "Whoa there shit for brains! This ensorcell is WAYYYY too hard! Charge some other sucker millions for a slightly easier ensorcell."

Why don't wizards get this preemptive warning when enchanting could use such a system much more than sorcs could.

[RSR]

RAR didn't get the 3% failure, just the lol undertrained for. 7x enchant failure. Should just be grateful it didn't explode.

[Taernath]

I don't think RAR was complaining about failing, rather he seemed to be complaining that the penalty for failing is so harsh.

36 wizard ranks tho. It's sort of like complaining death's sting is super harsh when you didn't bother buying any deeds. You have a responsibility to mitigate the risks.

[Winter]

Well I just did my last cast on a set of plain 6x armor to take it to 7x and failed. It dropped the enchant down to 5x...

Well I didn't realise that was even possible, well look on the bright side you could have completely blown the armour up and left with nothing.




edit- Oh I see you only have 36 wizard ranks, general rule of thumb if I remember right was 30 5x, 40 6x, 50 7x to be safe.

[RAR]

I underestimated the importance of 900 spells. After reading the wiki Enchant page when I was fixskilling, I kind of misinterpreted this... "Historically, wizards would overtrain their Wizard Base ranks to achieve more skill at enchanting. In the most recent revision of the spell, benefits from Wizard Base ranks were given diminishing returns." I should have known to get 1x. There are a ton of other things that are success factors on that page and I have every one covered. I also have a ton of enhancives that apparently didn't help. I guess I'm still a big rookie wizard.

<Thanks for checking and replying Aulis. I didn't realize I had that big of a chance to fail. I guess I blew it by limiting my 900 spells. When I switched over from swinging to casting this past fixskill I focused too much on the 500 and 400 spells. I figured just based on age that I was old enough to do a 7x plain item and had nothing to show me otherwise until the final 7x cast. I knew better than to even attempt a fusion item. Maybe that part of the ensorcell system that let's them know how successful they would be could work in the enchant system also. It's just really frustrating watching all that work go down the drain. Thx>

[Donquix]

While it is kind of funny to have this with only 36 wizard ranks, the overarching point still stands. Even if you are ridiculously overtrained in wizard ranks, there's the 3% failure chance.

Hell, even IGNORING THE FAILURE ENTIRELY...the point still stands. Fucking RIDICULOUS how long enchanting takes.

~2 week temper times for 7x...14 weeks, over 3 months, for one enchant. I started working on enchanting an item from 4-7x after the spitfire. It might not be done by EG. That is stupid, plain and simple. Completely unusable, and takes the better part of a year to accomplish...just monumentally bad design.


No. Well, maybe, depends how you look at it.

Going from T4 to T5 is what, 3 weeks I think? That's nothing compared to 6x-7x, which takes months. Both of which are the top ends of normal ensorcelling/enchanting.

Going from T0 to T5 is nothing compared to going from 0x-7x.

If you look at each individual enchant as if they were equal though, that is to say T0 == 0x, then they are probably the same up until you get to the T5/5x level, at which point ensorcelling is still better.

In short, ensorcelling is a complete joke compared to enchanting in terms of risk/reward and time invested. Strange thing is ensorcelling commands about the same amount of silvers too for much less work, but that's more to do with enchanting has been around for decades now while people are still getting their shit ensorcelled.

There's a few reasons why ensorcelling demands the price.
1) the one "benefit" enchanting has, is you don't have to do anything except show up and pour/cast once every week or two, sorcerers at least have to hunt. If you're hunting already, this obviously is a non-factor, however...
2) wizards / enchanting have been around forever. Pocket wizards, without even bothering with enchanting, are great to have and you should just assume everyone has one. Combined with point 1, i just assume most everyone always has a wizard with a project going. If you want to do that with a sorc, you at least have to get them on and actually hunt them which slightly increases barrier of entry. Plus, sorcs aren't as amazeballs to have as a pocket buff/haste/disk/etc. bot so not as many people have one to begin with
3) everything can be ensorcelled for the most part, only relatively vanilla items can be enchanted. ensorcelling is also new, these two things drive up demand. enchanting being allowed for flaring items might create more demand again temporarily.

ensorcelling prices were dropping a few months back. limit-break sorcs who could do the high end items were obviously not affected but several midrange folks were sitting on energy. The uptick in players from f2p and general buzz this year from HSN, spit, etc. brought people back which means more demand, prices came back up. Purely anecdotal, but when i first reactivated back around last november it was nothing but 2m, then it became pretty easy to find 1.5m. Jumped back up to nothing but 2m but i'm already seeing low-midrange sorcs selling at 1.5 or less. With everyone jumping on the HSN sorc bandwagon the amount of excess necrojuice floating around might help spur this :P

[Alashir]

While it is kind of funny to have this with only 36 wizard ranks, the overarching point still stands. Even if you are ridiculously overtrained in wizard ranks, there's the 3% failure chance.

Hell, even IGNORING THE FAILURE ENTIRELY...the point still stands. Fucking RIDICULOUS how long enchanting takes.

~2 week temper times for 7x...14 weeks, over 3 months, for one enchant. I started working on enchanting an item from 4-7x after the spitfire. It might not be done by EG. That is stupid, plain and simple. Completely unusable, and takes the better part of a year to accomplish...just monumentally bad design.


I mean, I totally agree with you, but when Jeril was banned for scripting myself and one or two others argued that if people were able to level faster it might result in less of a perceived need for scripting and create more interaction. Well, the vast majority of players forums disagreed and I think Spiffy ended up creating a poll that also reflected this. My point is that the majority of the GSIV populace wants most events/actions/leveling to take longer and be more difficult and time consuming to accomplish even if it's to the detriment of the game itself. This mindset would unfortunately encompass enchanting.

IMO one easy way to bridge both groups would be for GM's to simply cap the amounts of projects wizards can complete in a year but have them take drastically less time to accomplish them.

[Soulance]

My point is that the majority of the GSIV populace wants most events/actions/leveling to take longer and be more difficult and time consuming to accomplish even if it's to the detriment of the game itself.

Read - alchemy / forging

[Malisai]

Generally I think enchanting needs to be reworked to bring it more in line with current systems and items. As it stands, a 7x item, isnt the high quality it used to be. Now a days we have many more interesting options for gear (excluding the unique items from the days of yore).

changes I would like to see with enchanting:

1) Remove the chance to blow-up an item. Major failures should make you have to restart whatever enchant you were working on.
2) Reduce enchanting times for adding another X to the item.
3) Remove the restrictions on what disallows wizards to enchant an item.
4) Allow wizards to add flares to an item, armor or weapon. This would be more difficult than enchanting. Normal elemental flares would be not to hard to do. At 200 ranks of the appropriate rank of elemental lore that you are attuned to, you can add greater flares, or some other method to make the flares more powerful. Adding those beastly flares would greatly increase the difficulty of enchanting the item and require expensive potions.. Additionally perhaps allow wizards to add, up to a point, mana or acuity flares. This would also be really really difficult and also require special potions.

If not flares, i think something besides just adding another +5 to an item would be great.

[Alashir]

Read - alchemy / forging

I remember working my way through forging and laughing out loud at the ridiculous RT's and overall time it took to complete. It was quite appalling. Hard to say if it's better or worse than guild skills.

[Malisai]

I remember working my way through forging and laughing out loud at the ridiculous RT's and overall time it took to complete. It was quite appalling. Hard to say if it's better or worse than guild skills.

its better, you dont have to find partners, you can just stay in the forge and script it all.