HSN: 725 update

[Silvean]

Minor Summoning (725) has been updated with several new revisions and enhancements.

First, the duration has increased to 1200 + 60 seconds per spell rank. Second, all demon types are now easier to summon, with a 100% base chance to summon a demon using a valence runestone. Third, runestones are no longer required and you may simply PREP 725, then SUMMON; however, it is significantly more difficult to summon a demon through this method. Fourth, since runestones are now optional, you may use the SUMMON method to attempt to summon any type of demon (valence, archetype, or a specific demon). Lastly, demon illusions now last indefinitely and a demon without an illusion will not attempt to enter a town unless specifically told so by their master.

Enjoy!

-GameMaster Cyraex

This message was originally posted in Sorcerers, Sorcerer Spells. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/235/2628/view/3046

[Silvean]

Here's what it looks like without a runestone:

>prep 725
You begin drawing a faint, twisting symbol while softly intoning the words for Minor Summoning...
Your spell is ready.
>summon shien'tyr
You trace an arcane sigil in the air while incanting. Your eyes glow momentarily and you succeed in opening an interplanar rift from which you manage to pull a misty misty blue shadowling.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

[Fallen]

Nice. Far more convenient. Certainly not more powerful, but far, far less cumbersome.

The Demon Rattle lost a bit of value with all illusions now being permanent, but it still allows you to bypass Illusions training, so it's still nice in that regard.

[caelric]

Cool

[Deathravin]

Really great changes. Kudos. Do you still need a runestone to refresh the spell?

[Vorpodu]

Oooh, a misty misty blue shadowing. Double the misty, double the pleasure.

[nindon]

What we know:
You can attempt to summon any demon type without a runestone, including abyran'sa.
Attempting to summon without a runestone inflicts a 50 demonology rank penalty.
All demon types are now easier to summon.
With a runestone, general valence summoning is now 50 ranks of demonology easier (i.e., 100% chance with a runestone).

What we don't know:
Did all demon types get a 50 rank reduction in difficulty?
What are the new 100% thresholds for each demon type and subtype?

Let's figure it out. When you summon a demon and fail, then post the following four pieces of information:
The type of demon you tried to summon.
Your demonology ranks, including any demonology enhancives active at the time.
Did you cast the spell at a runestone?
Were you in a summoning chamber? You an verify whether or not a room is a summoning chamber with SENSE.


I think we will be able to make an educated guess with a few examples.

[nindon]

I failed the following summoning attempt:
1. Type: Abyran'sa
2. Ranks: 122
3. Runestone: no
4. Summoning chamber: no

Based on my luck so far, I'm starting to suspect that you get a bonus of 50 ranks when using a runestone (which would mean someone with no demonology ranks would have a 100% chance with a general valence runestone), and the difficulty when summoning without a runestone is the same as it was under the old version of the spell. With 122 demon ranks, I've attempted to summon abyran'sa demons four times without a runestone, and I've succeeded three of those times. I was expecting to have a low probability of succeeding with that demon. I know four attempts isn't enough to draw a conclusion, but still.

[nindon]

Nevermind. The answer is on the officials now.

[Fallen]

Nevermind. The answer is on the officials now.

Do you mind X-posting it? It's always nice to have that info in the spell reveal thread.

[Allereli]

Hey everyone, I know there have been lots of question about the success rates of Minor Summoning after the updates that went live yesterday. Here's some information that I'd like to share with you all.

Valence Runestones will have a 100% base chance inside a summoning chamber
Demon Runestones will have a 50% base chance inside a summoning chamber
Archtype Runestones will have a 25% base chance inside a summoning chamber

Training in Sorcererous Lore Demononology will provide a 1% increase in your chance to summon the demon per rank. In addition, being inside a summoning chamber offers about a 25% increase in your chance to successfully summon a demon.

Lastly, anytime you try to summon without a runestone, you will incur a 50% penalty on your chance to summon the demon. This is the entire reason why having knowledge of a rune is still a significant advantage. Hopefully this clears up some of the confusion, please feel free to ask more questions and I will try to answer them as best I can.

-GameMaster Cyraex


http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Sorcerers/Sorcerer%20Spells/view/3098

[Silvean]

Okay. When they say "base chance" above, they mean before factoring in the difficulty of an individual summon. So someone asked if they would have 100% chance to summon an abyran'sa with 75 ranks of demonology in a summoning chamber with a runestone based on the above numbers. Here's the reply:

"Well, you don't have all the information. The piece your missing is the difficulty, and that varies depending on valence, demon, or archetype. In order to summon abyran'sa with a runestone in a summoning chamber with 100% success chance, you would need 100 ranks in Demonology. -GameMaster Cyraex."

[Allereli]

https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Minor_Summoning_(725) updated

[nindon]

https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Minor_Summoning_(725) updated

I'm not so sure about the 50% penalty for not using a runestone. I thought they meant 50 percentage points, instead of 50%. If the penalty is a percentage of demon ranks, instead of a number of percentage points, then the penalty increases as the sorcerer's demon ranks increase. Same thing with the summoning chamber penalty.

[Allereli]

I'm not so sure about the 50% penalty for not using a runestone. I thought they meant 50 percentage points, instead of 50%. If the penalty is a percentage of demon ranks, instead of a number of percentage points, then the penalty increases as the sorcerer's demon ranks increase. Same thing with the summoning chamber penalty.

"you will incur a 50% penalty on your chance to summon the demon"

looks like multiplier to me, but I'm on cold meds, so as you're the 2nd person to express this, and it takes me 5 minutes to change it, the runestone penalty is now additive, but the chamber penalty is still a multiplier. You guys can let me know how it looks now, I'm not claiming I did experimenting by casting every 5 minutes for 3 days and recording the findings, just reading the posts as best I could.

[caelric]

Only thing left is the introduction of 750....

[Silvean]

so as you're the 2nd person to express this

I was the first! Tell him I was the first, Allereli! I was going to say something here on the boards when it occurred to me but I was ascared.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4lghw2gND1rt09xqo1_500.png

[Allereli]

I was the first! Tell him I was the first, Allereli! I was going to say something here on the boards when it occurred to me but I was ascared.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7543&d=1437883274

[nindon]

I based my interpretation on this statement by GameMaster Estild: "If a sorcerer doesn't use a runestone, there's a pretty significant penalty (the same as 50 Sorcerous Lore, Demonology lore ranks). For the most part, a sorcerer with 202 ranks of demonology lore will be able to summon any demon they want outside of a summoning chamber and without a runestone, but that kind of training has a huge opportunity cost. So if you know the rune for your favorite type of demon, you don't have to dedicate as much training to achieve the similar result (except with using a runestone)."

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Sorcerers/Sorcerer%20Spells/view/3061

I suppose it would make sense for a summoning chamber to provide a bonus that multiplies demonology skill, but my instinct, without experimentation, tells me otherwise.

Regarding archetypes, am I correct that the general rule applies to only the one archetype of abyran'a, and the abyran'sa is the lone exception to the general rule? I believe shadowling and darkling are treated as treated as demon-specific instead of as archetypes.

[Allereli]

I based my interpretation on this statement by GameMaster Estild: "If a sorcerer doesn't use a runestone, there's a pretty significant penalty (the same as 50 Sorcerous Lore, Demonology lore ranks). For the most part, a sorcerer with 202 ranks of demonology lore will be able to summon any demon they want outside of a summoning chamber and without a runestone, but that kind of training has a huge opportunity cost. So if you know the rune for your favorite type of demon, you don't have to dedicate as much training to achieve the similar result (except with using a runestone)."

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Sorcerers/Sorcerer%20Spells/view/3061

I suppose it would make sense for a summoning chamber to provide a bonus that multiplies demonology skill, but my instinct, without experimentation, tells me otherwise.

Regarding archetypes, am I correct that the general rule applies to only the one archetype of abyran'a, and the abyran'sa is the lone exception to the general rule? I believe shadowling and darkling are treated as treated as demon-specific instead of as archetypes.

if they're both additive, the benefits look like they stop at 150 ranks.

Uploaded my Excel file

[nindon]

A summoning chamber does not increase the duration when summoning a demon. It increases the duration only when refreshing a demon with a vakra rune. I tested it this morning, and that's how it it still works. There are some recent official posts that appear to say otherwise.

[Allereli]

A summoning chamber does not increase the duration when summoning a demon. It increases the duration only when refreshing a demon with a vakra rune. I tested it this morning, and that's how it it still works. There are some recent official posts that appear to say otherwise.

might want to bug that then

[Soulance]

might want to bug that then
I think this was mentioned in the Officials. They didn't say it would increase duration in the chamber, just that you could refresh the demon with the runestone only. There is still not "yet" another way to do it. Was there a duration extension before?

[Allereli]

Was there a duration extension before?

yes

[nindon]

yes

It worked the same way before these changes. The benefit of a summoning chamber when summoning was increased chance of success and the benefit when refreshing was increased duration. That lead to the odd result that a refreshed duration could be longer than the original duration.

[Allereli]

It worked the same way before these changes. The benefit of a summoning chamber when summoning was increased chance of success and the benefit when refreshing was increased duration. That lead to the odd result that a refreshed duration could be longer than the original duration.

so if you see it wrong in the wiki, just change it.

Always seemed to add to duration for me, but I only summon maybe twice a month and keep the same demon around.

[Fallen]

Spell 725: Minor Summoning
The changes are amazing. Could you look into making allowing/disallowing following into town, town specific? In icemule demons are fine, but I still have to allow demons to let them in. The issue is that if I go to the landing, ohh I have the follow into town set, and I get fined.





I have already been working on some changes to address this problem. I am changing the logic such that demons will only stop if the town does NOT allow demons or if you do NOT have the correct permit to bring your demon into town. You will still have to toggle the TOWN setting on/off in these situations. However, if the town allows demons or if you have the right permits, your demon will follow along without any trouble. The same logic will apply to any demon action that may cause it to enter a town, for example RETURN, DELIVER and FOLLOW. The code change is currently in QC and should be ready for release soon. I greatly appreciate your patience, please hang in there a few more days. My apologies for the fines that you have already incurred. Please let me know if you have any other concerns.

Some info on upcoming 725 tweaks.