Rogue Skills Change

[Viekn]

So I have a level 48 human rogue with the current skill ranks...
Armor Use - 60
Edged Weapons - 100
Two Weapon Combat - 100
Combat Maneuvers - 83
your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:
Skill name...........Ranks
Shadow Mastery.....5
Specialization I.......2
Surge of Strength...5
Vanish...................2
Available combat maneuver training points: 5
Ambush - 100
Physical Fitness - 48
Dodging - 96
Arcane Symbols - 10
Magic Item Use - 20
Harness Power - 7
Climbing - 20
Swimming - 20
Perception - 94
First Aid - 20
Survival - 20
Stalking and hiding - 144!

If I changed it to this, to allow for disarm and pick, am I doing anything too major that would have too much of a negative impact...
I highlighted the skills I changed with the change I made in parentheses...
Armor Use - 60
Edged Weapons - 100
Two Weapon Combat - 100
Combat Maneuvers - 78 (decreased by 5 ranks)
Ambush - 100
Physical Fitness - 48
Dodging - 90 (decreased by 6 ranks)
Arcane Symbols - 10
Magic Item Use - 10 (decreased by 10 ranks)
Harness Power - 7
Climbing - 20
Swimming - 20
Disarm Traps - 100 (added 100 ranks)
Picking Locks - 100 (added 100 ranks)
Perception - 94
First Aid - 0 (eliminated completely, no use for it)
Survival - 0 (eliminated completely, no use for it)
Stalking and Hiding - 144!?

[Astray]

Any particular reason behind this?

[Viekn]

I want to pick. And don't need to pick higher than my level, or much higher any way.

[Astray]

Eh... in my experience picking is one of the more tedious things but more power to you.

[Viekn]

Eh... in my experience picking is one of the more tedious things but more power to you.

I won't argue with you there, and I go back and forth about just saying screw it and use the town locksmith cause it's easy, but when he's charging you 3k-5k consistently to open boxes, it gets a little extreme.

[Velfi]

Seems fine I guess, but I think you'll start to want 403/404 (from some source, anyway) before too much longer at 2x/2x.

[Velfi]

I did just notice however, no mobility in your cmans. Shame.

Shame.

http://i.imgur.com/DFTusdU.jpg

[Viekn]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/079/272/cone_of_shame.jpg

[Eylanthriel]

Nothing there to be of concern but yeah I would suggest picking up 403 and 404. Even at 2x pick and disarm there will be boxes you won't be able to get even though they are your level.

[Viekn]

I finally got my meme to more or less come out the correct size! Thanks Methais!

[Jeril]

As others have said you are going to want to work lores into your training. As long as you aren't picking for people who bring you boxes with difficult traps all the time you could get by with 1x perception. And eventually 2x disarm isn't going to disarm all your boxes(Even with lore), nor will 2x picking allow you to click those locks. If you haven't done any LFM work, I'd suggest it so you can focus more on being able to disarm the boxes then just wedge any open that you can't pick.

[Viekn]

As others have said you are going to want to work lores into your training. As long as you aren't picking for people who bring you boxes with difficult traps all the time you could get by with 1x perception. And eventually 2x disarm isn't going to disarm all your boxes(Even with lore), nor will 2x picking allow you to click those locks. If you haven't done any LFM work, I'd suggest it so you can focus more on being able to disarm the boxes then just wedge any open that you can't pick.

I'm consistently surprised at how difficult it seems, to be a good picking rogue AND to be a good combat rogue. It seems to me that it's fairly easy to be a good enchanting wizard and good attacking wizard, fairly easy to be a good ensorceller and be well adept at killing things as a sorc, fairly easy to raise people but still be able to kill stuff as a cleric, fairly easy to add resistances but still king things as a ranger, perfectly easy to kill stuff but loresing well enough as a bard, but not so much to pick well and kill stuff well as a rogue. Am I completely wrong for seeing it that way? Maybe it's all subjective though.

[Velfi]

The TWC isn't helping you much in TPs while trying to do both things.

[Jeril]

I'm consistently surprised at how difficult it seems, to be a good picking rogue AND to be a good combat rogue. It seems to me that it's fairly easy to be a good enchanting wizard and good attacking wizard, fairly easy to be a good ensorceller and be well adept at killing things as a sorc, fairly easy to raise people but still be able to kill stuff as a cleric, fairly easy to add resistances but still king things as a ranger, perfectly easy to kill stuff but loresing well enough as a bard, but not so much to pick well and kill stuff well as a rogue. Am I completely wrong for seeing it that way? Maybe it's all subjective though.

For a wizard it depends on their level and their goals for what they want to enchant. They did seem to design ensorcelling to be worn like a glove for sorcerers. Clerics and raising is about the same but there is usually less of a demand for clerics then anything else. Loresinging doesn't provide any amazing bonuses for bards. Purifying gems can be a great boost to ones ability to gain silver but manipulation lore isn't the practical choice until 50+. To be the best healer an empath does sacrifice some hunting ability although not on the scale that some want.

As Velfi said your desire to be 2x in TWC isn't helping either. In most cases as a rogue you don't really need it, it is just fun to have.

[Shaps]

Looking at your skills and what you want to do, you should be able to fit in 2.5x Pick/Disarm easily.. with points left over.

I did up some math (could always be wrong), but would depend on your stats. I Looked at stats for a Giantman, Human, and Dwarf all together and it roughly came out to at level 1 - 45/43 PHY/MENTAL. And would just go up from there. If that is the case, you can do the following from level 1, for the cost of 46/32.. Leaving you plenty of points to fill in climb/swim/MIU/AS/etc.

1x Armor/PF/CM - 50 ranks each at 48
2x Edged/TWC/AMB/Dodge/Perception - 100 ranks each at 48
2.5x Lockpick/Disarm - 125 ranks each at 48
Spells up to 404
10 ranks MIU/AS/HP

Meets all of your stated goals, and again.. leaves you plenty of free points left over at 48. Additionally, just using the level one starting point of 45/43 points, over 48 trains, you would have 528 Mental points free. That's not counting any extra points for stat gain over those levels. That would allow you to get up to 404 (268 Mental), leaving 260 points.. Then 150 Mental points for 10 ranks of MIU/AS, leaving 110 points.. Then 10 ranks of HP for 90 points, leaving you 20 MTPs.

Plus at 2.5x pick/disarm - You will have great success for your boxes and others if you wish.

I'd recommend ;tpick also. Great script to take some of the tedium out of box picking.

[Shaps]

Ah, I see you were doubling up on CM a bit. Was wondering why your numbers were tight. You'd be fine without 2x CM for awhile honestly with the ambushing pushdown. But even with the above, you should have enough TPs accumulate over 48-50 trains to do what I said above, and start putting extra into CM as you wanted.

Hmm. See you don't have any Stalk and Hide either. For 1/1 (1x) or 3/3 (2x) per level. You could fit that in as well, making you even more effective. Which is what I'd probably do.

So, forgo 2x CM.. in order to get up to 2x Stalk and Hide by 50 with your left over points. Would make you much more effective hunter with the ambush pushdown/crit multiplier.

[Shaps]

Oh last thing, with TWC.. CMAN Whirling Dervish is awesome. So could forgo hiding and stalking, drop Lockpick/Disarm down to 2x per train.. and get 30 ranks of MOC in order to do open ambushing..

So if your main hand kills the first one your aiming at, you don't lose the secondhand attack, because it's already hitting the next creature in the room.

[Viekn]

Oh last thing, with TWC.. CMAN Whirling Dervish is awesome. So could forgo hiding and stalking, drop Lockpick/Disarm down to 2x per train.. and get 30 ranks of MOC in order to do open ambushing..

So if your main hand kills the first one your aiming at, you don't lose the secondhand attack, because it's already hitting the next creature in the room.

Thanks for all the input. Thanks also to Velfi, Jeril, and Eylanthriel. Going to play around with the build this weekend. Now who's hard up for silvers and wants to sell me a fixskill for 2.5 million?

[Candor]

Thanks for all the input. Thanks also to Velfi, Jeril, and Eylanthriel. Going to play around with the build this weekend. Now who's hard up for silvers and wants to sell me a fixskill for 2.5 million?

Good luck - hope you find the approach you want.

[m444w]

Oh last thing, with TWC.. CMAN Whirling Dervish is awesome. So could forgo hiding and stalking, drop Lockpick/Disarm down to 2x per train.. and get 30 ranks of MOC in order to do open ambushing..

So if your main hand kills the first one your aiming at, you don't lose the secondhand attack, because it's already hitting the next creature in the room.

ambushing with whirling dervish is far superior than open MoC whirling dervish.

[Shaps]

ambushing with whirling dervish is far superior than open MoC whirling dervish.

Of course it is, but with it costing 10/3 per MOC.. he'd have to make some sacrifice somewhere. Since he already doesn't use Stalk and Hide, then it's an option.

Otherwise he could just fit in 2x/train S+H and ambush without the Dervish. But he needs a few more trains to fit in both, and lock picking.

[m444w]

Of course it is, but with it costing 10/3 per MOC.. he'd have to make some sacrifice somewhere. Since he already doesn't use Stalk and Hide, then it's an option.

Otherwise he could just fit in 2x/train S+H and ambush without the Dervish. But he needs a few more trains to fit in both, and lock picking.

1.5x S/H is a better allocation of TPs if you aren't going to 3x, nothing any creatures that will not spot you at 2x S/H will not spot you at 1.5x, and the rest of them you have to be 3x + Shadow mastery to have a decent chance (undead, animal based creatures)

And i'm not sure where he said he doesn't use S/H?

beyond getting the first few ranks of MoC to knock down 2 or so critters for FoF, if you're trying to pick you need to way until cap to start training heavily in the MoC.

[Viekn]

Of course it is, but with it costing 10/3 per MOC.. he'd have to make some sacrifice somewhere. Since he already doesn't use Stalk and Hide, then it's an option.

Otherwise he could just fit in 2x/train S+H and ambush without the Dervish. But he needs a few more trains to fit in both, and lock picking.

I thought that statement looked a bit off, so I double checked, I do have stalk and hide! My bad all. I wasn't even drinking when I posted the skills. Updated the OP with Stalk and hide, but can't remember if I lowered it to achieve the pick/disarm. If I did, I probably lowered it to be 2x. Again, I'll play with it this weekend and re-post just to make sure I'm not screwing anything up.

[Shaps]

I wasn't worried about the FoF or anything with MOC.. 30 ranks of MOC are required to even use Whirling Dervish. Hence, why he would have to give up something at his train, to even use it.

You S+H recommendation saves him some points.

And he didn't list S+H in showing his skills initially, hence I went off of that.

But at the end of the day, can either forgo S+H and get up to 30 ranks MOC for Whirling Dervish and open ambush, with follow on attack... or Forgo MOC and get S+H, and just ambush the normal way.