resistance stacking - math check

[gilchristr]

I took the following hit today while wearing HCP brig with nature resist, and warrior puncture resist spiked flaring leg greaves that sings as incredible (60%). I took this hit today:

A wolverine tries to bite you!
Some embossed imflass leg greaves set with several spikes partially deflect the onslaught of the puncture attack.
AS: +234 vs DS: +199 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +70 = +129
... and hits for 11 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the left leg.


The hit is a rank 1 to the leg, which is 5 bonus damage from this table:

https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Puncture_critical_table



What is interesting about the hit is that the crit divisor for brig is 7, meaning 6 or less raw damage could not have produced a rank 1 crit. So I must have taken 7 raw damage.

The DF of a bit attack against brig is .375, and the endroll was 29, which is 10.875 raw damage with no resistance.

Assuming for the sake of argument that I had no redux, I could expect 60% warrior damage resist to lower the DF to .15 (.375*.4) = 4.35, which is not anywhere close to 7 raw damage.

But, if I assume that the warrior puncture resistance were halved, i.e. 30%, then I could have taken 7.6125 damage, assuming no redux. I in fact have a little redux, less than 10%, so looks like half resistance and my miniscule redux would be more likely to allow the 7 raw damage needed to cause that rank 1 crit messaging....


So I just finished posting on the officials that there is no reason to assume that stacked resistance is halved given that name in red posts only mentioned halving padding, but to me this looks havled! ... so I guess I retract for now what I said on the officials about no reason to assume resistances can be halved...

[gilchristr]

Another point - I don't know if wolverines have "weighted" teeth, but I dont think it matters because it is my understanding that weighting, no matter the type, can never bring a raw hit that would have been rank 0 to rank 1.


And here is the bard song on the leg greaves:

"The harmonics generated tell you that the greaves has been infused with a disintegrating substance. The magical harmonics reveal that legs are better protected when wearing the imflass leg greaves.

As your song penetrates the imflass leg greaves, you determine that it is incredibly resistant to puncturing attacks."


https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Resistance
Incredibly (50%+)


Note that I used 60% and half (30%), instead of 50% and half (25%) because I was reading the top table which is for rangers, but I dont think it changes anything...

[gilchristr]

Ok I just noticed the following on the page about "incredible resistance" being 50%+

"These are just logical guesses based on slim evidence from my few data points. Anyone able to fill in some more points?"

Also, I found out about a -10 mod for applying puncture resistance on flaring armor. (But note that my bard song did report incredibly.)

Ill think about this and maybe address it tomorrow.

[Jeril]

It is also on an armor accessory so you might be halving the resistance of it and the crit padding on your main armor for the given location.

[Riltus]

This is one possible explanation.

It is very likely that your redux factor is insufficient to reduce damage in this attack (minimum redux factor required is 0.0625). Therefore, the reduced damage is from resistance only.


Some embossed imflass leg greaves set with several spikes partially deflect the onslaught of the puncture attack.
AS: +234 vs DS: +199 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +70 = +129
... and hits for 11 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the left leg.

ER success margin: 29
Weapon DF: .375 (bite attack vs brig)
Raw damage: 11 [round(29 * .345)]
Crit damage: 5 (rank 1 leg puncture)
Total unreduced damage: 16
Resistance: 0.50 (50%)
Reduced raw damage: 6 [11 - trunc(11 * 0.50)]
Actual damage: 11

Note: Resistance 'damage removed' truncates

Example of truncation: With 10% resistance and 9 raw damage there is no damage reduction


trunc(9 * 0.10) = 0.9 which truncates to 0

Actual damage:

(11 raw - 5 from resistance) = 6 reduced raw damage
Crit damage = 5
Total damage = 11

Q. If minimum raw damage for a critical with brig = 6.5 (rounds to 7) why was there a critical with only 6 raw damage?
A. Resistance cannot lower what would have been a rank 1 critical to rank 0.

Mark

[gilchristr]

I applied the resistance to the raw damage.

But you applied the resistance to the "total unreduced damage".

So the application of resistance is akin to the application of the new damage reduction layer, not the original DFredux layer. I should have realized that - makes more sense regarding the timing of the introduction of systems to the game.

[Riltus]

I applied the resistance to the raw damage.

But you applied the resistance to the "total unreduced damage".

So the application of resistance is akin to the application of the new damage reduction layer, not the original DFredux layer. I should have realized that - makes more sense regarding the timing of the introduction of systems to the game.

No. I applied the resistance to reduced raw damage only (11) . Unreduced total damage is 16. The unreduced raw damage (11) = reduced raw damage (11) after redux. The reduced raw damage after resistance is 6. My understanding of the order of operations is that resistance is applied after redux. However, redux for this specific attack can be ignored since no damage is reduced.

1. Calculated damage without redux or resistance

Unreduced raw damage: 11 [round(29 * .345)]
Unreduced crit damage: 5
Total unreduced damage: 16

2. Calculated damage with redux and no resistance

Reduced raw damage: 11
Reduced critical damage: 5
Total reduced damage: 16

Note: 1 and 2 have the same damage values since the redux factor was insufficient to reduce any damage.

3. Calculated damage with redux and resistance

Reduced raw damage w/resistance: 6 [11 - trunc(11 * 0.50)]
Critical damage: 5
Total reduced damage: 11

Calc dmg (11) = Actual damage taken (11)

Mark

[Taluric]

Mark, as a general question does crit padding follow the same rules as resistance in that it cannot reduce a rank 1 to a rank 0?

Edited for simplicity.

[Riltus]

Mark, as a general question does crit padding follow the same rules as resistance in that it cannot reduce a rank 1 to a rank 0?

Edited for simplicity.

Correct. Crit padding cannot reduce a rank 1 to rank 0 and is, therefore, only effective when the critical is a rank 2 or higher. Also, damage padding does not affect the critical rank outcome.

Mark