triple dodge or armor first?

[Slamy]

which would be better to triple train in first?

[Astray]

Armor. You're a warrior, not a rogue or monk.

[Candor]

Dodge. You realize what a horrible mistake you made choosing warrior as a profession (I mean, why be anything but a rogue), so you might as well train like a rogue.

Of course if you wanted for some reason to actually train like a warrior, choose armor...

[Archigeek]

Take armor to 290, then work on dodge. This all assumes you've taken PF to 303 ranks. That should happen befor 3x dodge.

[Warriorbird]

Armor to 140/150 if not 290. The only bad thing about being a Warrior is the Guild. Candor doesn't understand, naturally.

[Candor]

The only bad thing about being a Warrior is the Guild.

Can I watch you bash boxes on your head? snicker

[Astray]

When I was fooling around on my warrior I always went 1x on my dodge. Warriors have enough flexibility to do anything though, in terms of physical stuff.

[Aganii]

What is your weapon style? If Pole, THW or TWC go for dodge after PF and 150 armor imo. If you use a shield dodge is way down the list

[Slamy]

Yeah I'm tripled in armor use now and have about 250 ranks in dodge but at 40tp's a pop this has been going on for years and the mental grind is getting to me. I was talking more mechanically would the benefits of 3x's dodge be better than the armor use which other than adding padding .. I'm wondering if 2x armor use and 3x dodging would be better for a thw warrior.

[Warriorbird]

Yeah I'm tripled in armor use now and have about 250 ranks in dodge but at 40tp's a pop this has been going on for years and the mental grind is getting to me. I was talking more mechanically would the benefits of 3x's dodge be better than the armor use which other than adding padding .. I'm wondering if 2x armor use and 3x dodging would be better for a thw warrior.

Other than extra armor skills, better hinderance, and cheap redux training there isn't much of a reason to go past full plate. I'd definitely kick more into dodge.

[Archigeek]

Dodge doesn't add much for that third rank. Honestly, think of it this way, how many spells could you learn instead, with the roughly 3.5 million EXP that the third rank of dodge costs. You have rightly made it less of a priority than armor. Extra armor also helps significantly vs the standard maneuver roll, and that never hurts.

[Slamy]

thanks Kerl


Dodge doesn't add much for that third rank. Honestly, think of it this way, how many spells could you learn instead, with the roughly 3.5 million EXP that the third rank of dodge costs. You have rightly made it less of a priority than armor. Extra armor also helps significantly vs the standard maneuver roll, and that never hurts.

[Jeril]

I don't think anyone has asked but where do you hunt? And which instance of GS are you playing? If you hunt the rift as anything other then a member of voln I'd certainly say learn up to 107/414 just to make life easier. If you hunt elsewhere, I'd definitely say to 3x dodge, then armor, and highly suggestion 2x perception before you start on spells. I say that because spells are going to lower your redux so you may as well make yourself as hard to hit as possible before you learn them.

And Kerl is wrong, if you used a shield he'd have something but you don't. Going from 2-3x dodge is going to net you 60 some odd DS. I took dodge up to 3x before armor and when I took armor up to 290 I was getting back about 4.5 DS per armor threshold. So, between the two I gained around 75 DS and a much improved action penalty.

[Archigeek]

I don't know if I'd go so far as to admit that I'm wrong, we just have different priorities. Jeril has always valued DS more than I have, where I just don't think you're getting much for 3.5 million experience, and that you're doing it in the order that I would. He is right though, in that you should carefully consider where you hunt, and that safety vs maneuvers is more important in some places (rift) while DS is more important in others (OTF).

As a side note, I am 3x in all skills that a warrior can 3x in, and did them in this order: shield use, PF, armor, and dodge. This was partly dictated by the implementation of such things as reallocation, changes to the SMR, redux, armor skills, and dodge.

[Slamy]

Yeah . I'm 3x armor 3x's PF and up to 268 on dodge. Spells 107 and 401. It's just that the grind on dodge is getting old .. I bounce between rift and nelemar so I can see the importance of both. I value DS but I also agree with kerl, the maneuver ability in the rift is probably more important than another 30 ds. I guess I'll keep grinding it. Part of me felt like cashing in some armor ranks to top off dodge just so I don't have to look at it anymore. You can gain more ranks in armor for the 40 tps each point of dodge costs and mentally would make me feel like I'm progressing faster. But I wanted to ask the experts before I did anything. Honestly I can't figure out how much ds I get from that third training in dodge.

[Jeril]

I don't know if I'd go so far as to admit that I'm wrong, we just have different priorities. Jeril has always valued DS more than I have, where I just don't think you're getting much for 3.5 million experience, and that you're doing it in the order that I would. He is right though, in that you should carefully consider where you hunt, and that safety vs maneuvers is more important in some places (rift) while DS is more important in others (OTF).

As a side note, I am 3x in all skills that a warrior can 3x in, and did them in this order: shield use, PF, armor, and dodge. This was partly dictated by the implementation of such things as reallocation, changes to the SMR, redux, armor skills, and dodge.

You do realize the OP said he uses THW? Which is completely different then someone like you who uses a shield.

[Archigeek]

You do realize the OP said he uses THW? Which is completely different then someone like you who uses a shield.

I do realize that, yes. I didn't make any suggestions based on shield use; I told him I thought he'd done things in the right order.

[Jeril]

Yeah . I'm 3x armor 3x's PF and up to 268 on dodge. Spells 107 and 401. It's just that the grind on dodge is getting old .. I bounce between rift and nelemar so I can see the importance of both. I value DS but I also agree with kerl, the maneuver ability in the rift is probably more important than another 30 ds. I guess I'll keep grinding it. Part of me felt like cashing in some armor ranks to top off dodge just so I don't have to look at it anymore. You can gain more ranks in armor for the 40 tps each point of dodge costs and mentally would make me feel like I'm progressing faster. But I wanted to ask the experts before I did anything. Honestly I can't figure out how much ds I get from that third training in dodge.

The grinds for some things can be annoying but I think switching your skills around often is also kind of silly. Mechanically we can do it but from a RP perspective it doesn't make a lot of sense. I'd also find it annoying to be able to do something and then not. You are most of the way to 3x dodge as it is, I'd say just to stick it out. I already said it but going from 2-3x dodge is around 62 DS, you'd see slightly more then that being 3x in armor. You figure roughly .6 DS per rank and you have 35 left, thats 21 DS.

Hunting plane 4 you mostly need slash protection which is quite easy to get if you are in normal GS. In all my time hunting there I've had something like 4-5 deaths while wearing it. Hunting the scatter is another beast altogether and you want as much protection as you can get from both maneuvers and DS. Nelemar is a cake walk if you stick to the third floor and once you get into the back of the second it is like the scatter light. For anyone not using a shield I'd always say dodge before armor because that extra 60 DS makes a huge difference anywhere you hunt, 3x armor not so much.

[Jeril]

I do realize that, yes. I didn't make any suggestions based on shield use; I told him I thought he'd done things in the right order.

You also realize being 3x in shield use with a 7x shield a warrior has 190 DS. While a warrior not using a shield and with 2x dodge is only getting 120 DS from that dodge and another 20ish DS from either a offhanded weapon or using a THW/polearm vs a one-handed weapon?

[Archigeek]

You also realize being 3x in shield use with a 7x shield a warrior has 190 DS. While a warrior not using a shield and with 2x dodge is only getting 120 DS from that dodge and another 20ish DS from either a offhanded weapon or using a THW/polearm vs a one-handed weapon?

Ok. What's your point? Are you telling me I should stop using a 3x shield and buy a 7x one? You're drilling down on the DS thing, when my main point was that I thought he was doing things in the right order. I think we both agree that at this point he should stick with what he's doing: (armor and PF 3x'd first, then dodge).

It's so far and away easier to get 3x armor than it is to do 3x dodge that it's not even funny. To get all 303 ranks of armor, it costs 1414 PTP's. To get JUST the last 101 ranks of dodge, takes 1616 PTPs and 808 MTPs. Most likely, at that point, you are converting MTPs to PTPs, so it ends up being 4040 MTPs. We all agree it's a slog and sucks, but eventually we get there because it does have value, just not as much value on a point v point basis as armor does. At least not to me. My spells example was there just to illustrate the point: for those 4040 MTPs, you could learn 33.6 spells instead of getting the third rank of dodge. I'm not suggesting anyone do it in that order (I didn't), just illustrating a value comparison for that last 101 ranks of dodge.

[Jeril]

Ok. What's your point? Are you telling me I should stop using a 3x shield and buy a 7x one? You're drilling down on the DS thing, when my main point was that I thought he was doing things in the right order. I think we both agree that at this point he should stick with what he's doing: (armor and PF 3x'd first, then dodge).

It's so far and away easier to get 3x armor than it is to do 3x dodge that it's not even funny. To get all 303 ranks of armor, it costs 1414 PTP's. To get JUST the last 101 ranks of dodge, takes 1616 PTPs and 808 MTPs. Most likely, at that point, you are converting MTPs to PTPs, so it ends up being 4040 MTPs. We all agree it's a slog and sucks, but eventually we get there because it does have value, just not as much value on a point v point basis as armor does. At least not to me. My spells example was there just to illustrate the point: for those 4040 MTPs, you could learn 33.6 spells instead of getting the third rank of dodge. I'm not suggesting anyone do it in that order (I didn't), just illustrating a value comparison for that last 101 ranks of dodge.

Once a person caps any improvements are about quality of life. For someone not using a shield going from 2-3x dodge is a larger improvement then anything else you can do with those points(Exceptions being GoS members not at 3x PF, and people in plat without the ready access to spells we have). Even if someone was only using a 4x shield by the time they capped they are still going to have more DS then the guy with 2x dodge. Going by what you've said we should tell people to stop shield use at 2x to 3x PF and armor before getting more, but that isn't the case.

You are free to use whatever shield you want but I doubt you'd tell someone with just 3x shield use and 0 dodge to use a 3x shield the way you are.

[Androidpk]

Only one way to settle the issue. The thunder dome. Two man enter, one man leave. Kerl needs to duel Jeril.

[Archigeek]

Only one way to settle the issue. The thunder dome. Two man enter, one man leave. Kerl needs to duel Jeril.

At least one of us didn't break a deal.

[JackWhisper]

At least one of us didn't break a deal.

Don't listen to PK.

Just sit on Jeril's shoulders, and start calling him Blaster.

#ShitJustGotReal.

[Androidpk]

??

[Archigeek]

??

Oh come on. You can't go making Thunderdome references and not get that. You have been sentenced harshly: you must actually watch Thunderdome again.

[Viekn]

Oh come on. You can't go making Thunderdome references and not get that. You have been sentenced harshly: you must actually watch Thunderdome again.

Gotta agree with Kerl on this one. In this case, you must watch it twice in one weekend.

[Androidpk]

:(

[Archigeek]

Gotta agree with Kerl on this one. In this case, you must watch it twice in one weekend.

Oh the cruelty.

[Warriorbird]

At least one of us didn't break a deal.


??

Gulag! Gulag! Gulag! Gulag!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHjHXpFiegA