Really Depressing

[Skirmisher]

I was working with a customer in line today who had a simply adoreable little girl of four or five who out of nowhere looked up at the customer in line behind her who happened to be black and said in an amiable voice "I hate black people".

I was stunned and the grandmother with the little girl paled and shushed her and said no you don't be quiet and left almost immediately.

I asked the teller who had been working with her "did she just say...?" and trailed off as she said "What" evidently not having heard the girl.

Later I was thinking how horribly sad it must be for that little girl to hear such things at home. She learned it somewhere and obviously cannot hate anyone at her age just yet so is simply mimicking someone she respects.

How sad for someone to foist their hate upon such an unspoiled potentially wonderful child.

It's one of the cruelest things I've seen in a long long time.

[StrayRogue]

Yeah, that is terrible. But the flip side is, alot of people hate others but is at present socially acceptable. For example American hate of Afghani's (total generalisation there of course, I am NOT saying everyone hates them etc). In today's society though, stupid racism like that is really a shame, though I do find it quite common among the older (60+) generation. The same applies for Homophobia. Maybe in another 20 years...I hope.

[Back]

Maybe in another 20 years...I hope.

I dunno Stray. From what I've seen on these very boards, which is a very small sample of mostly Americans, ignorance will be passed from father to son for a long time to come. Take Skirmisher's story as an example.

[draconis nematoda]

Children have to be taught to hate, it's not something that comes naturally.

People who are 60 years old and older had to live with the worst kind of racism, it's called genocide.

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by draconis nematoda]

[StrayRogue]

I suppose, but the world is getting more "enlightened". Racism is, these days, in most civilised parts, frowned upon. Look how bad it was 100 years ago. Plus, the civlised world IS becoming more multi-cultural. It is not something, of course, I ever expect to be completely eradicated Star Trek style though.

[HarmNone]

I believe, as our world continues to "shrink" due to technology connecting us in ways we never dreamed of, that someday racism will be a thing of the past. Hatred will continue, of course. It is human nature to hate that which we do not understand. However, as we communicate more, and with greater diversity, even our hatreds may lessen. We can but hope.

HarmNone

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by HarmNone]

[StrayRogue]

I hope so.

[Artha]

Just wait 20,000 years, and everyone is going to be white.

[Back]

Just wait 20,000 years, and everyone is going to be white.

Then, a decade or two later, they'll all die of birth complications from inbreeding.

[Askip]

According to the September issue of National Geographic, there are still 27 million slaves worldwide in 117 different countries including the USA.

So much for progress.

[Drew2]

Maimara is my love slave.

Beyond that, I own none.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Tayre
Maimara is my love slave.

Beyond that, I own none.

You can't get your dick within a mile of me.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Maimara

Originally posted by Tayre
Maimara is my love slave.

Beyond that, I own none.

You can't get your dick within a mile of me.

Damn fat legs...

[Back]

Just wait 20,000 years, and everyone is going to be white.

I just wanted to elaborate on my previous post to this comment, because I used to feel this way. The only difference is that I thought everyone would end up olive skinned with brown hair and blue eyes.

A nice fantasy that dosen't follow gene dominance to the T. I used to think that interracial breeding would bring this world together, but if you follow through with that, you are going to end up inbreeding. Thats when I realized that races (I hate that term as it implies competition) are an integral part of humankind's survival. Certainly, birds of a feather will flock together, but others will migrate into interracial relations, and back, thus introducing new material into a culture's gene pool, which is a benefit in the long run. I'm no scientist, I never went to college, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

[Artha]

Then, a decade or two later, they'll all die of birth complications from inbreeding.

Yeah...probably. I figure eventually people will be spending all their time inside, even in crappy places like Africa. It takes about 20,000 to get from dark black skin to pale white skin, depending on how much sun you and your ancestors get. So eventually, we'll all be white.

Edit: Just noticed your post. Inbreeding *probably* won't effect us, as long as we're switching dominant and recessive traits every generation or two.

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by Artha]

[Back]

Yeah...probably. I figure eventually people will be spending all their time inside, even in crappy places like Africa. It takes about 20,000 to get from dark black skin to pale white skin, depending on how much sun you and your ancestors get. So eventually, we'll all be white.

Its interesting you think there will be less sunlight than more. We could all be black in 20,000 years depending on the enviroment alone.

[edge]

<I dunno Stray. From what I've seen on these very boards, which is a very small sample of mostly Americans, ignorance will be passed from father to son for a long time to come. Take Skirmisher's story as an example. >

Prime example of Anti-American racism.

Who is the lesser human. The ones with the power doing nothing or the ones with power doing something? If you see someone being raped will you do nothing because you could get hurt? Or would you help them? The UN is worthless.

[Back]

The UN is worthless.

Thats why Bush and Powell just went to them for help in Iraq. Next!

[StrayRogue]

Prime example of American propoganda.

[edge]

<Thats why Bush and Powell just went to them for help in Iraq. Next!>

Why do we need help? The US is trying to save the UN and the American public wants the rebuilding to be a UN project. We can fund it, we can keep the troops there. We are the richest and most powerfull nation in the world. But they are trying to get the UN involved to make it about Iraq and shut the fucking crybabies up. But France and Germany are going to be babies about it and cause more trouble. It's about them, not Iraq. Hell, they couldn't even handle a heat wave. Their troops would drop over like flies over there...heh.

[StrayRogue]

You are funny to read Edge. Ignorant and brainwashed, but funny.

[Back]

Originally posted by edge
Why do we need help? The US is trying to save the UN and the American public wants the rebuilding to be a UN project. We can fund it, we can keep the troops there. We are the richest and most powerfull nation in the world. But they are trying to get the UN involved to make it about Iraq and shut the fucking crybabies up. But France and Germany are going to be babies about it and cause more trouble. It's about them, not Iraq. Hell, they couldn't even handle a heat wave. Their troops would drop over like flies over there...heh.

Listen to yourself. Who are you trying to convince? Me? Won't happen. I suspect you are trying to warm your own heart over this.

America decided it didn't need the UN to do what it did. THE UNITED NATIONS! Not sure you undrestand that that means. But, now, after not finding the weapons, or killing the big bad Saddam, they are grovelling, YES GROVELLING, back to the UN for HELP with the MESS THEY STARTED!!@!!!

Of course, Europe wants a share of WHAT HALLIBURTON GOT!

Fuck this...

[StrayRogue]

Totally right Backlash. The fool seems to think the UN is the US errand boy. Wrong.

EDIT: Yeah, sorry about that last edit comment, I wasn't exactly in the best state of mind

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by Edaarin]

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by Edaarin]

[StrayRogue]

Lol, see what I mean.

[Back]

I swear the next time I travel I'm going to tel people I'm Canadian because of people like Gemstone101 and Edge.

[Betheny]

I live near Canada...

[edge]

UN was made to protect human rights and as a international community protect the world. But France and Germany wanted to use it to protect their oil deals with Iraq. Now who is the true worthless piece of shit now? You, France and Germany says their is a price tag on human life. That saving lives is not worth your time.

Bush sent us for the wrong reasons. We should have gone years ago for human rights violations. But once again France didn't want to ruin their oil deals. Hell Saddam owned half of France pratically. Had invested in everything French. France is Saddam bitch.

EDIT: Edge, cool it please. You've been asked muliple times to stop with all the gay referneces.

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by Edaarin]

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by Edaarin]

[StrayRogue]

It why Europe hates your country. I suggest you all remember the scene from trainspotting where the American enters the bar, then is promptly followed into the bathroom and beaten. While an exaggeration, it is the general consensus. And its a shame. I love some of you guys. But alot of you are like Edge, and just fucking pig ignorant.

[edge]

Some people don't give a shiy about anything but themselves. Keep showing your worthlessness to society.

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by Edaarin]

[CrystalTears]

Yes you said it. Quite a bit. So now that you've gotten it out your system you won't say it anymore, right? :D

[Scott]

Originally posted by Backlash
I swear the next time I travel I'm going to tel people I'm Canadian because of people like Gemstone101 and Edge.

Please don't ever compare me to Edge. I least look into the situation instead of following. My views don't follow yours, how hard is that to grasp? You seem to be of the dumb anti-us people who think people who believe in what the US does are followers and buy into propaganda and believe whatever we are told.

I don't think this war was because of WMD. I think it was because of Oil and to get rid of a vicious dictator. Do I think Iraq had WMD? Absolutely. Do I think that's why we are fighting this war, no. Do I hate France because of them not helping us in the war, Absolutely not. Do I hate the UN, No.

I love the US, and I'm proud to live here. I support our Troops 100% in whatever they do, even if I don't agree with the war we are in. I don't think everything the US does is the greatest thing, I don't think "We are the best military and we can kick anyones ass!"

Just because some of my views follow what the US's are, doesn't make me a follower. I make my own decisions. Just because you are unable to grasp that someone chooses to disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm wrong. Please at least comprehend that you aren't always right before posting, because you look stupid right now.

[StrayRogue]

Hey Sintik, while I disagree with your politic, I do agree you are one to believe in what you want. Atleast you see the lie's that are in front of you. It is up to you if you wish to follow them. Edge, as you correctly said, is totally different.

[Scott]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Hey Sintik, while I disagree with your politic, I do agree you are one to believe in what you want. Atleast you see the lie's that are in front of you. It is up to you if you wish to follow them. Edge, as you correctly said, is totally different.

I just hate people who say "We make up our own minds, we don't believe in what the US does." But then when someone makes up their own mind to believe in what the US does, they are stupid followers who can't make up their own minds.......

[StrayRogue]

I can see that being frustrating. But look at it from Edges view. Dude, I feel your pain.

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by Edaarin]

[Tendarian]

Back to the topic that started this thread. Ever had small children? They do and say things that are emberassing all the time in public. It doesnt mean they are being taught by the KKK at home or anything like that. My parents tell a story of my sister growing up where someone bumped into her and she looked at them and said watch out polack. My parents didnt teach this to her she just heard it somewhere and repeated it. Of course they were emberassed by it and apologised and left quickly.

Id bet anyone with small children in the age range of around 2ish would have emberassing stories of things their kids said in public that made them want to die right there on the spot. They dont call it the terrible twos for nothing.

[Edaarin]

Im goign to bed. Behave please?

[StrayRogue]

Grrr Edaarin. As I was saying, Sintik, we are pulling from different sides. Some people group you with the mindless drones like Edge, while people like edge group all those who disagree with him as American hating homosexuals. We don't have to agree, we CAN rise above people like him though.

[Scott]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Grrr Edaarin. As I was saying, Sintik, we are pulling from different sides. Some people group you with the mindless drones like Edge, while people like edge group all those who disagree with him as American hating ---------. We don't have to agree, we CAN rise above people like him though.

Exactly. I don't mind people who protests wars and such. I do however dispise people who protest wars and block food from getting to our troops, they should be arrested and put in jail for a good while for that.

Both sides have idiot people. You have people who follow the US no matter what they do. You ahve people who go against the US no matter what they do and accuse anyone who follows the US as a worthless drone.

I don't mind having a debate with someone about my side vs. your side. I however don't want to debate with someone who is unable to understand that people have different views and believe in their country because THEY want to, not because the government wants too....

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by Gemstone101]

[StrayRogue]

Then, on that point, we agree :)

[AnticorRifling]

You all taking small examples of a large group and using them to make your sterotypes. I don't go around saying every Brit has bad teeth because the few I've met had messed up grills, I don't go calling all Canadian's idiots because of the few I met while in the UP of Mich. made me think that the entire country put something in the water to lower IQ. And I don't think all people from the Middle East are terrorists.

Making such stupid sterotypes and assumptions is just asking for trouble. You all need to learn to take things on a case by case basis. Last time I was in England I had a blast and got in a few good debates in a pub over politics and such when they found out I was from the US and guess what we all had a blast because we cut through this same crap you all are arguing about.

[StrayRogue]

Hey, show me to a post where I generalized all Americans, and I will admit defeat. I don't think I have though. I just disagree with the mass politic, ie, your government.

I grew up in rural SC. I saw crosses burned all the damn time and the ENTIRE police force belonged to both the Masons (or Shriners) and the KKK.

If you were non-white or non-christian, you were considered little more than cattle.

[Back]

Originally posted by Gemstone101

Originally posted by Backlash
I swear the next time I travel I'm going to tel people I'm Canadian because of people like Gemstone101 and Edge.

Please don't ever compare me to Edge. I least look into the situation instead of following. My views don't follow yours, how hard is that to grasp? You seem to be of the dumb anti-us people who think people who believe in what the US does are followers and buy into propaganda and believe whatever we are told.

I don't think this war was because of WMD. I think it was because of Oil and to get rid of a vicious dictator. Do I think Iraq had WMD? Absolutely. Do I think that's why we are fighting this war, no. Do I hate France because of them not helping us in the war, Absolutely not. Do I hate the UN, No.

I love the US, and I'm proud to live here. I support our Troops 100% in whatever they do, even if I don't agree with the war we are in. I don't think everything the US does is the greatest thing, I don't think "We are the best military and we can kick anyones ass!"

Just because some of my views follow what the US's are, doesn't make me a follower. I make my own decisions. Just because you are unable to grasp that someone chooses to disagree with you, doesn't mean I'm wrong. Please at least comprehend that you aren't always right before posting, because you look stupid right now.

Woah, ok. I'm not anti-American by any means. If anything, I'm anti-religeous. Lets get that straight. And, no, I am not by any means a Satanist. Second, I didn't vote for Topo Gigo, or his daddy. Third, you are right, and I don't give a fuck if I look like an ass or not, I'm going to say what I think, which according to our land stealing forefathers, is a God given right, not that I buy into that Judeao-Christian crap...

I will say though, that I do agree with most of what you posted. Questioning is healthy. Its how you learn.

Comparing you to Edge was a wee bit harsh, I can admit that.

[Back]

Comparing you to Edge was a wee bit harsh, I can admit that.

Ok, this is usually where HarmNone comes in to defend.

You are so full of crap, HarmNone... you are a drama whore. Admit it.

[Ravenstorm]

It can't really be considered all that surprising considering the blow to civil rights and due process given by the government. As Authority does, so does the citizen.

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12911

Forgive the link. I would have preferred something a little less 'liberal' for our conservative readers but there were so many hits on Google on this subject I just said the hell with it. A little research will show the facts stated to be true.

Though the article itself is old, the story is ongoing. Just recently, one of the news magazines - 60 minutes or Dateline perhaps - covered this. One of the detainees was for nine months. For the first four, no one was even told he had been... Well, not arrested since he wasn't. Detained. Indefinitely. Incommunicado.

Here's a good point to note that though his Visa had expired, he did have an American wife and child. A wife who was kept for months in the dark as to his whereabouts, never knowing if he was alive or dead. After nine months total, he was found innocent of any terrorist activity and sent out of the country... Without telling his wife.

Are any of the conservatives wondering how this can happen in America? Do any of you care? Having the secret police come and steal someone away without letting anyone know if he's alive or dead. being presumed guilty until proven innocent. Being held without ANY rights and treated WORSE than a convicted felon in prison.

But what's it matter? They're not Americans. Ah, but you forget how Ashcroft pushed that law through that will allow the government to declare /anyone/ an enemy combatant - even a US citizen - and strp them of their rights as granted by the Constitution. And all in the name of National Security (tm).

Personally, while a 4 year old saying something she can't understand is not indicative of the problem - yet - it is certainly related. A child will often follow the lead of a parent. An adult will often follow the lead of their government.

I'm just glad Ashcroft wasn't in office when Oklahoma City happened. There might be a law allowing them to 'detain' anyone who bore any resemblance to Timothy McVeigh. That would probably have been a fair number of you out there too.

Raven

[/soapbox]

[StrayRogue]

I am too jovial for politics sorry.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Backlash

Comparing you to Edge was a wee bit harsh, I can admit that.

Ok, this is usually where HarmNone comes in to defend.

You are so full of crap, HarmNone... you are a drama whore. Admit it.

Ack! I missed my opportunity? Woe is me! Alas! I shall now swoon!

HarmNone the drama whore :D

[StrayRogue]

I wish she was a whore, or atleast "easy-going" *mumbles*

[Back]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Are any of the conservatives wondering how this can happen in America? Do any of you care? Having the secret police come and steal someone away without letting anyone know if he's alive or dead. being presumed guilty until proven innocent. Being held without ANY rights and treated WORSE than a convicted felon in prison.

This country, at the moment, is run by the FBI, CIA and OIL.

[StrayRogue]

Its run by money, for money or the eventually accumulation of money.

[Tendarian]

I would say that is wrong Raven if it is as you say it is. I just wonder if they detain people for no reason. Even with reason though i think it silly not to tell family what has happened. I think its definately over reacting and should be righted.


Are any of the conservatives wondering how this can happen in America? Do any of you care?

Are you trying to say conservatives dont care about freedoms and rights? If so thats just silly.

Comparing Oklahoma city bombin to this is extreme though. The reason this is happening is its an over reaction to what happened on 9/11 and that happened before then. Plus i would bet there are a lot more skinny white bald guys who would have a fit :)

[Back]

HarmNone, I tried U2U but its not working for me. I don't want to derail this thread. Maybe your U2U works, if not, AIM zendada.'

Back on topic. Hate is taught. Discuss.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Tendarian
I would say that is wrong Raven if it is as you say it is. I just wonder if they detain people for no reason. Even with reason though i think it silly not to tell family what has happened. I think its definately over reacting and should be righted.



Of course this happens. What about the innocent man DEA agents shot a few years back? They smashed into his house, and shot a 60 year old guy who was lounging on a recliner. They got his adress wrong. And that was a mistake.

Look what is happening here with the mysterious suicide of the leading weapon inspector. Atleast here it is in the open and not covered up. As much.

[HarmNone]

Check your U2U, Backlash.

HarmNone

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Tendarian
I would say that is wrong Raven if it is as you say it is.

Don't take my word for it. In fact, please don't take my word for it. Research it yourself thoroughly. I'm all for informed citizens.


Are you trying to say conservatives dont care about freedoms and rights?

I'm saying conservatives are more likely to be willing to infringe on civil rights than 'bleeding heart liberals' are. Case in point: Ashcroft.


Here's a CNN about Congress strting to investigate the situation:

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/06/05/ashcroft.terror/


Here's an article from Amnesty USA about Ashcrodt's 'raids':

http://www.amnestyusa.org/usacrisis/ashcroftraids.html


In fact, look over all the articles here:

http://www.amnestyusa.org/waronterror/index.html


It's shameful that Amnesty International should need to be concerned about America violating basic human rights. Yes, we need to be concerned with security but not at the cost of becoming what we're claiming to be fighting. But that's just the bleeding heart liberal viewpoint of someone who supports terrorism. Or so Ashcroft (and others) have said of those who dare disagree with the government.

Raven

[Artha]

Amnesty International? You mean the same organisation that took 'Baghdad Bob's word, without checking any other source?

Oh, there's a reliable source!

[StrayRogue]

Touche Artha ;)

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Artha
Amnesty International? You mean the same organisation that took 'Baghdad Bob's word, without checking any other source?

Oh, there's a reliable source!


Oh, silly me. Of course, that invalidates every single other time they were right and brought up a valid concern... Like every time they aren't pointing fingers at us.

I assume you're equally critical of Bush? Since he fucked up about Iraq's nuclear capability, everything he says from now on can be written off as bullshit?

Funny how anything painting the US in a bad light is biased and wrong but the US can never be.

Raven

[Artha]

Since he fucked up about Iraq's nuclear capability

You mean when he said they were trying to buy uranium from Nigeria, or some other ass backward african country?

The info he got was from the CIA, and given by the British government. They stand by it still. Frankly, I wouldn't doubt it.

[StrayRogue]

The info given from the Brit side was wholey...exaggerated. This revelation is most likely why we won't be seeing Mr. Blair in number 10 after the next election.

[Ravenstorm]

And he's been right about /so/ many other things...

I suspect this is futile but tell you what. Would you care to try to refute the actual argument instead of casting aspersion on an agency the US has always supported 100% /until/ it turned its eye on us?

Please, show how none of it is true. Cite sources.

Raven

[StrayRogue]

Who Blair? Please come to my country and see how hated he now is. His lies are plastered over the papers. There are no WMD's in Iraq. He SAID he had evidence that there was. Hence the excuse for the war. Now that he has no evidence, people who thinking attacking a country purely for speculative reasons is a bit wrong, are out for his blood.

[Ravenstorm]

Sorry, I should have been more explicit.

No, I meant Bush and was directing the post to Artha. Or anyone who would actually like to refute the claims with substance instead misdirection.

Raven

[Skirmisher]

I'm always glad to see an arguement with Stray(AmericaSucks)rogue, but not in my topic damnit!

Find your own.:flamed:

[StrayRogue]

Hey, every country has its problems. Mine included. I could careless of your own, IF you didn't stick your noses into our countries affairs like you do.