Teresa Heinz Kerry puts foot in mouth

[xtc]

Teresa Heinz Kerry insulted Laura Bush recently. Teresa said she was unsure if Laura had ever held a real job.

I thought the comment was a insult to mothers everywhere and it showed Teresa's ignorance as Laura has worked as a Teacher and a Librarian additionally she holds a Masters from U. of Texas and a Bachelors from SMU.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/20/theresa.apologizes.laura/index.html

[Parkbandit]

A non-story in my book. She quickly retracted it later on.

And I would certainly stick with bashing George.. Laura is above attack.. especially from anyone named Teresa Heinz Kerry.

[DeV]

It was bound to happen and I was wondering when she would step up to the plate and kick her own self in the ass.

Bravo, Teresa. :thumbsdown:

[xtc]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
A non-story in my book. She quickly retracted it later on.

And I would certainly stick with bashing George.. Laura is above attack.. especially from anyone named Teresa Heinz Kerry.

It was a stupid move. George certainly makes a bigger and more politically correct target.

Personally I think Laura has all the personality of wallboard, however if I was in politics I would keep that opinion to myself.

[Tsa`ah]

Why was it such a bad comment? Is Mrs. Bush not a mother to two teens that got busted for drinking underage? Or was it a DUI?

Either way, the parents of those two lush sluts deserve criticism.

Sure, she inserted the foot in the mouth over the work comment, but seriously ... how long and hard did Laura work? And you can't count being married to a dumb ass as work.

[Caiylania]

No offense, but many teenagers drink underage. And a lot of parents do not know, are in denial, or know and try to control it. That doesn't make them all bad parents (though I am sure there are those out there of course)

The majority of my friends drank in high school, and they had wonderful parents. It was a stage. Though I didn't do it myself.

The Bush kids just happen to be in the highlight, and in doing normal teenage things, suddenly their parents are bad?

[Parkbandit]

Insulting a working mother is NOT the way to garner votes... especially in this election.

It was a stupid comment by a stupid lady who has an affinity to say stupid things. She should get off the stage and get back to bottling her Daddy's ketchup.

Also.. I wouldn't brag about a job my family got me.

[Carl Spackler]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Either way, the parents of those two lush sluts deserve criticism.


That is stupid. I hope your kids get busted for drinking one day and then someone comes and jumps down your throat about it.

[Tsa`ah]

Ah my dear Carl, I won't be running for nor will I ever hold an elected position.

I drank before 21, my parents drank before the legal age, I'm sure my children will as well. I'll just hold to standard family practice and let them deal with the consequences.

I won't pull strings for my kids.

[Caiylania]

And also, I left a very good paying job to be a mother. It was my choice, and I would make it again. Being a mother IS a job. We all make mistakes but there is nothing wrong with wanting to stay home to raise your children.

**Edited to say that is in reponse to Mrs. Kerry's comments.

[Edited on 10-21-2004 by Caiylania]

[Tsa`ah]

What exactly inspired that? Surely nothing I posted.

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Ah my dear Carl, I won't be running for nor will I ever hold an elected position.

I drank before 21, my parents drank before the legal age, I'm sure my children will as well. I'll just hold to standard family practice and let them deal with the consequences.

I won't pull strings for my kids.

And I agree. But I must admit, I read your original post as insults to both the parents and kids, for the girls actions, not any mention of string pulling.

You bashed them for doing teenage things.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Why was it such a bad comment? Is Mrs. Bush not a mother to two teens that got busted for drinking underage? Or was it a DUI?

Either way, the parents of those two lush sluts deserve criticism.

Sure, she inserted the foot in the mouth over the work comment, but seriously ... how long and hard did Laura work? And you can't count being married to a dumb ass as work.

Ok, at least Laura has worked and I guess you don't value the work of raising children. Many kids with attentive and loving parents drink, I guess you were a saint when you were a kid Tsa'ah?

Laura Bush isn't running for office and as such shouldn't be a target. Teresa just couldn't keep her mouth shut. Let's be honest criticizing Teresa would be let shooting fish in barrel. What job has Teresa ever held? and spending her late husband’s money doesn’t count neither does paying for a few fund raising dinners for lefty causes.

[Tsa`ah]

No I bashed the parents for raising two more potential genetic deficients.

The bashing was fully inspired by the blatant nepotism.

[Tsa`ah]

What exactly makes you think I like the catsup baronesses?

[Tsa`ah]

I can take a beating, but you're deluding yourselves in thinking Laura Bush was ever a "Full time mother". Nannies, hired help ... yep, sounds like her time as a parent was hard.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Insulting a working mother is NOT the way to garner votes... especially in this election.

It was a stupid comment by a stupid lady who has an affinity to say stupid things. She should get off the stage and get back to bottling her Daddy's ketchup.

Also.. I wouldn't brag about a job my family got me.

It isn't her Daddy's ketchup, the little gold digger married John Heinz the third, a Republican Senator who died in 1991 in a plane crash, and got the money that way.

She met John Kerry while still married to John Heinz.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by NewestUser
nepotism:
favoritism shown to relatives or close friends by those in power (as by giving them jobs)

I'm failing to see how this relates AT ALL to Bush's two daughters?.. Are you trying to tell me that Heniz children don't have their positions because of nepotism either?

Lycain, it's not just through work. Abuse of power to the benefit of one's child is in fact a nepotistic act.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
No I bashed the parents for raising two more potential genetic deficients.

The bashing was fully inspired by the blatant nepotism.

potential genetic deficients? Their parents both hold Master's degrees. Their grandfather George Bush Snr is probably one of the most intelligent men to hold the office of the President in the last century.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by NewestUser
Ever stop to think why she had hired help?

Maybe because she had a job and a career to take care of?

?????

My wife is a professional, when I decide to go back to work; I myself will again be a professional. I've never hired a nanny or required any aid to take care of either of my children.

Your argument is lacking.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by xtc
potential genetic deficients? Their parents both hold Master's degrees. Their grandfather George Bush Snr is probably one of the most intelligent men to hold the office of the President in the last century.

And Dubya earned his degree?

Read my lips NEP O TIS EM

[xtc]

Originally posted by NewestUser

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by NewestUser
Ever stop to think why she had hired help?

Maybe because she had a job and a career to take care of?

?????

My wife is a professional, when I decide to go back to work; I myself will again be a professional. I've never hired a nanny or required any aid to take care of either of my children.

Your argument is lacking.

You're most likely incapable of affording one, no insult intended. Hell who wouldn't hire help if they had the money? You're making no sense mate...

Lot's of people can afford nannies and don't hire them. I know many people including relatives who are rolling in it yet have chosen not to hire nannies to help with the kids

[Tsa`ah]

I don't see how I couldn't afford to hire help Lycain. The total income for the household will be well over 150 this year. It was over 120 last year, and over 110 the year before.

Never assume you know what you're talking about.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by xtc
potential genetic deficients? Their parents both hold Master's degrees. Their grandfather George Bush Snr is probably one of the most intelligent men to hold the office of the President in the last century.

And Dubya earned his degree?

Read my lips NEP O TIS EM

You really think Bush is dumb? He may be narrow minded and fundamentalist but I doubt he is dumb. Even if he is Laura has a Master's degree from a first rate school and George Snr is the former Director of the CIA, former President, and one of the most intellegent Presidents of the last century.

[Tsa`ah]

No, I'm convinced Bush jr is dumb.

Sub standard SAT, c average, cheer leader.

He didn't get into the Ivy League on his own merit, and I doubt he graduated on his own merit.

When you cover your child's ass up to the day, and probably after, he/she becomes an elected public official, they're going to have some fucked up views of how things are supposed to work.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
No, I'm convinced Bush jr is dumb.

Sub standard SAT, c average, cheer leader.

He didn't get into the Ivy League on his own merit, and I doubt he graduated on his own merit.

When you cover your child's ass up to the day, and probably after, he/she becomes an elected public official, they're going to have some fucked up views of how things are supposed to work.

That still doesn't justify your genetic deficient comment. Such a comment is down right scary, are you advocating eugenics?

[Tsa`ah]

No, you're putting words in my mouth

[Edited on 10-21-2004 by Tsa`ah]

[Hulkein]

Didn't Bush get like 1250 or so on his SATs? How is that substandard? Maybe for the University he went to but hell, 1250 isn't 'dumb' or anything close to it.

Heinz Kerry made a mistake. Despite the fact that Laura raised kids as her job, she was a public school teacher for like ten years.

Way to bash teachers and stay at home mothers, Heinz, good work for your husband.

[Parkbandit]

Esh Tsa`ah.. you might want to quit while you are so far behind. There's no coming back from the ignorant shit you've posted here so far.

Hate Bush if you have to. But your argument borders on complete stupidity so far.

The point is.. Teresa Heinz Kerry said a very stupid thing. Certainly she retracted it later on.. but it was stupid. Defending it only makes you stupid as well... especially when you are using stupid reasons.

[Edited on 10-21-2004 by Parkbandit]

[xtc]

Tsa'ah has no objectivity where the Bushes are concerned. I find his opinions to be arrogant, hi-handed, dogmatic, and not open to change.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Esh Tsa`ah.. you might want to quit while you are so far behind. There's no coming back from the ignorant shit you've posted here so far.

Hate Bush if you have to. But your argument borders on complete stupidity so far.

The point is.. Teresa Heinz Kerry said a very stupid thing. Certainly she retracted it later on.. but it was stupid. Defending it only makes you stupid as well... especially when you are using stupid reasons.

[Edited on 10-21-2004 by Parkbandit]

Shit PB we agree again.

[Tsa`ah]

And you would be correct. Kerry, Heinz, Bush, take your pick.

All deficient.

[Tsa`ah]

No, I did not express my opinion of all involved parties being deficient.

You my not friend, have issues beyond basic comprehension.

[4a6c1]

w00t. Multiple thread :flamewar:

:lol:

[DeV]

Originally posted by NewestUser
I'm actually done, I don't see the point in arguing with someone. This is like endorsing slavery IMO. Parents are black and stupid, children are black and stupid. Give me a fucking break.

-Mark I'm really getting sick of the fucking generalizations or examples that people use which typically tend to emphasize something dealing with BLACK, SLAVERY or BEING BLACK. Give it up already for fuck's sake. Back your argument some other way.

[Back]

Don’t confuse Tsa’ah’s statements/convictions with Teresa’s retracted mistatement.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Esh Tsa`ah.. you might want to quit while you are so far behind. There's no coming back from the ignorant shit you've posted here so far.

Hate Bush if you have to. But your argument borders on complete stupidity so far.

The point is.. Teresa Heinz Kerry said a very stupid thing. Certainly she retracted it later on.. but it was stupid. Defending it only makes you stupid as well... especially when you are using stupid reasons.

[Edited on 10-21-2004 by Parkbandit]

Shit PB we agree again.

Bush will have your vote yet!!
:D

[TheRoseLady]

Why are we even talking about this? This isn't even newsworthy. At least THK is able to do something that George CAN'T do and that is admit he is wrong. That is the real story, not a comment from THK.


"Well, you know, I don't know Laura Bush. But she seems to be calm, and she has a sparkle in her eye, which is good. But I don't know that she's ever had a real job -- I mean, since she's been grown up. So her experience and her validation comes from important things, but different things."

She added, "And I'm older, and my validation of what I do and what I believe and my experience is a little bit bigger -- because I'm older, and I've had different experiences. And it's not a criticism of her. It's just, you know, what life is about."

The apology:

Heinz Kerry said she was "sincerely sorry" for the remark.

"I had forgotten that Mrs. Bush had worked as a schoolteacher and librarian, and there couldn't be a more important job than teaching our children," Heinz Kerry said. "As someone who has been both a full time mom and full time in the workforce, I know we all have valuable experiences that shape who we are. I appreciate and honor Mrs. Bush's service to the country as first lady, and am sincerely sorry I had not remembered her important work in the past."

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Insulting a working mother is NOT the way to garner votes... especially in this election.

It was a stupid comment by a stupid lady who has an affinity to say stupid things. She should get off the stage and get back to bottling her Daddy's ketchup.

Also.. I wouldn't brag about a job my family got me.

It isn't her Daddy's ketchup, the little gold digger married John Heinz the third, a Republican Senator who died in 1991 in a plane crash, and got the money that way.

She met John Kerry while still married to John Heinz.


XTC, do you have issues with women of power? You have derided Hillary Clinton and now THK. Just curious.

[Parkbandit]

It wasn't really a news story until Tsa`ah tried to defend it. I'll be forwarding this message board thread to the AP tonight.

:)

[xtc]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Insulting a working mother is NOT the way to garner votes... especially in this election.

It was a stupid comment by a stupid lady who has an affinity to say stupid things. She should get off the stage and get back to bottling her Daddy's ketchup.

Also.. I wouldn't brag about a job my family got me.

It isn't her Daddy's ketchup, the little gold digger married John Heinz the third, a Republican Senator who died in 1991 in a plane crash, and got the money that way.

She met John Kerry while still married to John Heinz.


XTC, do you have issues with women of power? You have derided Hillary Clinton and now THK. Just curious.


Not at all, I admire and like Elizabeth Dole.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
It wasn't really a news story until Tsa`ah tried to defend it. I'll be forwarding this message board thread to the AP tonight.

:)

LOL, well you can use that special hotline to Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity. I find it hilarious that you were compared to both of those clowns.

To know you is to love you. :yes:

[Edaarin]

I would certainly hope that if you were the child of a high profile celebrity or a celebrity yourself (to the point where everyone on campus knows who you are) you wouldn't try something as retarded as trying to using a fake ID at a bar.

Freddy Adu, take note.

[Sean]

I think it was a mistake for her to say although I also think it was a minor and honest mistake. The quote also doesn't seem nearly as bad when you have it within the context of the whole quote, thanks TRL.

[Blazing247]

Anyone who isn't Tsa'ah, or related to Tsa'ah is obviously genetically deficient. I truly pity your wife and (god forbid) any children you have, as you are quite possibly the most unwarranted and arrogant asshat I've encountered in the virtual world, and it must be painstaking to live with you on a daily basis.

The lady fucked up, in public, and was called on it. She apologized, but she's still an asshat. Maybe that is why you both get along so well.

A 1200 on your SAT is not a bad score at all. I know plenty of people that I regard as infinitely more intelligent than you that scored a lot lower on their SAT's. Also, C's? Who the fuck cares about grades? My A's in college and $4.00 would get me a cheesesteak from Pats. You need to stop thinking you are better than everyone. I consider myself fairly intelligent but I will admit that on a daily basis someone else impresses me with their intelligence.

Bush isn't stupid, by any means. He is of average intelligence- something that I admire from a President because this world is filled with average people. Find a new argument for the man, and get off your fucking high horse because you make yourself look like a stupid fucktard on a daily basis. Go ahead and edit my asshole. :moon:

:moon:

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Blazing247
He is of average intelligence- something that I admire from a President because this world is filled with average people.

The mind boggles. Personally, I want someone smarter than me guiding the most powerful country in the world. I'm just truly amazed someone can say that with a straight face.

Raven

[Blazing247]

<The mind boggles. Personally, I want someone smarter than me guiding the most powerful country in the world. I'm just truly amazed someone can say that with a straight face. >

Because card carrying Mensa members obviously make better decisions than a normal/average person? Because I want someone who looks at the world in a purely analytical way to make decisions for me? Because the President doesn't have a Cabinet full of very intelligent people to guide and influence his decisions? My point stands- I'd rather have GWB than Stephen Hawkings as President of our country. Not to mention, as a liberal yourself, you can say Kerry is that "more intelligent person" with a straight face? Please.

[Sean]

But did he get where he is because hes of average intelligence? or because of who he is as in where he came from ... being a Bush? To that level I somewhat agree with Tsa'ah but at the same time recognize you can't change who your parents are so I don't hold it against Bush. But this is also off topic so .. whatever.

[Blazing247]

<But did he get where he is because hes of average intelligence? or because of who he is as in where he came from ... being a Bush?>

Anyone who claims they never had a door opened for them is a bold-faced liar. My degree from a University means about as much as 1 ply toilet paper, as do many of my buddies who are now completing Graduate school because of the inability to find a job. Should I begrudge my one friend who has a 6 figure job now because he knew someone on the inside to get him an interview? I'd be quite an asshole and a hypocrite if I did. Did Bush have a little help along the way? Sure did. That's what families and friends are for.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Blazing247
<But did he get where he is because hes of average intelligence? or because of who he is as in where he came from ... being a Bush?>

Anyone who claims they never had a door opened for them is a bold-faced liar. My degree from a University means about as much as 1 ply toilet paper, as do many of my buddies who are now completing Graduate school because of the inability to find a job. Should I begrudge my one friend who has a 6 figure job now because he knew someone on the inside to get him an interview? I'd be quite an asshole and a hypocrite if I did. Did Bush have a little help along the way? Sure did. That's what families and friends are for.

I've never had a door opened for me when it comes to my career. I got to where I am through hard work. Call me a bold faced liar if you want.. but I worked my way up from an entry position to manager.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Blazing247
<But did he get where he is because hes of average intelligence? or because of who he is as in where he came from ... being a Bush?>

Anyone who claims they never had a door opened for them is a bold-faced liar. My degree from a University means about as much as 1 ply toilet paper, as do many of my buddies who are now completing Graduate school because of the inability to find a job. Should I begrudge my one friend who has a 6 figure job now because he knew someone on the inside to get him an interview? I'd be quite an asshole and a hypocrite if I did. Did Bush have a little help along the way? Sure did. That's what families and friends are for.

I can't honestly remember having a door opened for me either. I was accepted at a first rate University due to my marks. My GPA and my GMAT score enabled me to get into an excellent Master's program. I obtained my first job without any connections. The closest I have come to having doors opened for me are with some clients. I have been able to obtain new clients through recommendations by my current clients because they were very pleased with the work I did for them.

[Edited on 10-21-2004 by xtc]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Blazing247

Anyone who claims they never had a door opened for them is a bold-faced liar. My degree from a University means about as much as 1 ply toilet paper, as do many of my buddies who are now completing Graduate school because of the inability to find a job. Should I begrudge my one friend who has a 6 figure job now because he knew someone on the inside to get him an interview? I'd be quite an asshole and a hypocrite if I did. Did Bush have a little help along the way? Sure did. That's what families and friends are for. Very bold statement. I'd bet the majority of people in this world get to where they are because of hard work and personal dedication. I see your point but it's extremely fuzzy as it applies to very few.

[Ilvane]

I have to say, who cares what Theresa Kerry thinks of Laura Bush.

Laura Bush has said some nasty things too about John Kerry. Just because she's more polished doesn't mean she's nicer.

And she may have been a working mother for a few years, but she's been not working a lot more. So what? I could see the issue if John Kerry had said the same thing, but he didn't. It doesn't matter what Theresa thinks.

-A

[Blazing247]

I assumed "never had a door opened for them" would be taken to mean "in general". I will restate it- "Anyone who claims they never had a door opened for them for anything is a bold-faced liar."

As for my CAREER, I got here through my own merit. As for my side jobs when I was young, almost always they were hooked up for me by friends or family. If you don't/didn't have that type of networking in your life, I feel sorry for you and even so, it's not a reason to begrudge a man for accepting a hand up in this world.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
I have to say, who cares what Theresa Kerry thinks of Laura Bush.

Laura Bush has said some nasty things too about John Kerry. Just because she's more polished doesn't mean she's nicer.

And she may have been a working mother for a few years, but she's been not working a lot more. So what? I could see the issue if John Kerry had said the same thing, but he didn't. It doesn't matter what Theresa thinks.

-A

What nasty things did Laura say about Teresa? I didn't hear anything about that at all.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Blazing247
Bush isn't stupid, by any means. He is of average intelligence- something that I admire from a President because this world is filled with average people.

I think it's sad that half this country thinks that it's just fine to have an inarticulate president who may or may not be of above- average intelligence.

Look at the guy, he can't even campaign without filling all of his stops with loyal Bush supporters, yes, you have to sign a loyalty oath to Bush to attend. He needs to hear those cheers and boos- that was evident in the debates - his pauses waiting for the praise from his own base. If you show any sign of dissent you are not admitted, made to leave, or arrested, this includes T-shirts stating - Don't Forget Civil Liberties or something to that effect.

He rarely has a press conference because they can't control the questions and the answers.

So we have reduced ourselves to such rationalization that because he's "human" and makes mistakes that we are going to overlook his horrendous record as president?

A record he can't even run on? The only thing he can do is attack Kerry.

I vote for more than above-average intelligence along with some humility and the ability to see a problem in more than one dimension. Go Kerry.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

What nasty things did Laura say about Teresa? I didn't hear anything about that at all.

There probably aren't any because the liberal media would have jumped on that right away. :kisses:

[Blazing247]

You say this:

"I think it's sad that half this country thinks that it's just fine to have an inarticulate president who may or may not be of above- average intelligence. "

And then this:

"I vote for more than above-average intelligence along with some humility and the ability to see a problem in more than one dimension. Go Kerry. "

Which nullifies your argument.

[Blazing247]

<There probably aren't any because the liberal media would have jumped on that right away. >

That is some solid logic right there.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Blazing247
<There probably aren't any because the liberal media would have jumped on that right away. >

That is some solid logic right there.

You are humor impaired. Really, you need to lighten up.

[Back]

First Lady Says No Apology Needed (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?flok=FF-APO-1131&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20041021%2F1200517215.htm&sc=1131)

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by Blazing247
Bush isn't stupid, by any means. He is of average intelligence- something that I admire from a President because this world is filled with average people.

I think it's sad that half this country thinks that it's just fine to have an inarticulate president who may or may not be of above- average intelligence.



I think it's sad that half this country thinks that it's just fine to talk a good talk, but when it comes right down to it.. it's simply just that... talk.

John Kerry has certainly come up with some splendid ideas over the past year on how to make this country better (in his opinion). My question to you is.. what the hell was he doing for the past 20 years as a Senator? Do you have to be a Presidential nominee in order for you to bring these matters to the attention of the American people? If that's the case.. then I would say we need to really look into the balance of power in this country when a Senator has absolutely zero ability to bring forth legislation necessary to improve American lives.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Blazing247
You say this:

"I think it's sad that half this country thinks that it's just fine to have an inarticulate president who may or may not be of above- average intelligence. "

And then this:

"I vote for more than above-average intelligence along with some humility and the ability to see a problem in more than one dimension. Go Kerry. "

Which nullifies your argument.

I am starting to see why you think Bush is fine, because there's nothing wrong with those two statements.

Okay let's break it down for you. Roughtly 50% of the population appears to be voting for Bush - I don't necessarily agree that he is of above average intelligence - you obviously do - but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

In my opinion, Kerry is highly intelligent, shows humility and has shown that he has a commanding grasp of issues and their complexities, which is not something I see in our president. And well, Go Kerry, is self-explanatory.

You are welcome to disagree, but those are my views.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

I think it's sad that half this country thinks that it's just fine to talk a good talk, but when it comes right down to it.. it's simply just that... talk.

John Kerry has certainly come up with some splendid ideas over the past year on how to make this country better (in his opinion). My question to you is.. what the hell was he doing for the past 20 years as a Senator? Do you have to be a Presidential nominee in order for you to bring these matters to the attention of the American people? If that's the case.. then I would say we need to really look into the balance of power in this country when a Senator has absolutely zero ability to bring forth legislation necessary to improve American lives.

What has Bush done in the four years that he has actually BEEN a president and had a Congress of Republicans to assist him? I know your game hon, it's to try and always stay on the offensive- I just don't bite anymore. It's time for you to start actually producing some positives on your man instead of engaging in the same thing that Bush does on the stump.

He's had the presidency for 4 years, why isn't he running on his record?

[DeV]

Originally posted by Blazing247
I assumed "never had a door opened for them" would be taken to mean "in general". I will restate it- "Anyone who claims they never had a door opened for them for anything is a bold-faced liar."

As for my CAREER, I got here through my own merit. As for my side jobs when I was young, almost always they were hooked up for me by friends or family. If you don't/didn't have that type of networking in your life, I feel sorry for you and even so, it's not a reason to begrudge a man for accepting a hand up in this world. Saying things like, "in my experience" would help your argument. Nothing wrong with accepting a hand-out regardless of where its coming from as long as you acknowledge that it is just that.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Blazing247
Anyone who isn't Tsa'ah, or related to Tsa'ah is obviously genetically deficient. I truly pity your wife and (god forbid) any children you have, as you are quite possibly the most unwarranted and arrogant asshat I've encountered in the virtual world, and it must be painstaking to live with you on a daily basis.

Those are actually the more endearing qualities my wife fell for. :rolleyes:

Some of you really read more than what is there.

I don't believe Bush is any more intelligent or capable of running anything better than your average HS drop out. I don't even think he has obtained even a cavity on merit.

I don't believe Kerry is honest or sincere about anything but himself and the power he can potentially obtain. Most of what comes out of his mouth is lip service in my ears, but at the same time it is 10x better than the drivel that Bush vomits.

Laura Bush to me is the snot that likes to show case her life, a life built by money. She may have been a wonderful mother, but she's playing her limited achievements and role as a parent to the same level as the mothers, and fathers, who work 50 hours a week and still find the time for their kids. You can't compare the two.

THK? I don't think she's any better. As pointed out, she married money, kept the money, married power and will probably try a Hillary down the road to keep the power.

Politics are politics. Make lame barely perceptible accomplishment look like a monumental achievement, play off the colossal blunders as simple mistakes, and bury those skeletons deep.

So, in my eyes, this group is a deficient group.

Who isn't deficient? The people who have busted their asses to get where they are. The people who haven't lost sight of where they came from, who know where they came from, and who put them in power. The people who know who they are responsible for.

Give me McCain or a small handfull of others and I'll show you who isn't a deficient in my eyes.

Until then, stop reading what isn't there and pull your head out of your ass.

[Blazing247]

<Give me McCain or a small handfull of others and I'll show you who isn't a deficient in my eyes. >

Well, at least we agree on one thing.

[Chelle]

I'm not reading the whole thread. I am sure it's filled with love and respect for others opinions. . I am just commenting on the title.

Did she put some catsup on it first? And I hope it was yummy!

HAR HAR!

[Parkbandit]

Heinz Ketchup > Hunts Ketchup

Even politics won't deter me from drowning my cheeseburger in 2 layers of Heinz..

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Heinz Ketchup > Hunts Ketchup

Even politics won't deter me from drowning my cheeseburger in 2 layers of Heinz..

I guess the two of you are around the same age.

Starting up your political carreer Park?

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Blazing247
<Give me McCain or a small handfull of others and I'll show you who isn't a deficient in my eyes. >

Well, at least we agree on one thing.

If McCain were running, I suspect I would feel much differently about this election. As is stands, it's Kerry.

And I just got a damn recorded message of propaganda from Bush on the phone.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Backlash
First Lady Says No Apology Needed (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?flok=FF-APO-1131&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20041021%2F1200517215.htm&sc=1131)

At least one of them has some class

[Carl Spackler]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Ah my dear Carl, I won't be running for nor will I ever hold an elected position.

I drank before 21, my parents drank before the legal age, I'm sure my children will as well. I'll just hold to standard family practice and let them deal with the consequences.

I won't pull strings for my kids.

I never said anything about you running for office. I said I hope someone repremands you for letting your children drink underage.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Heinz Ketchup > Hunts Ketchup

Even politics won't deter me from drowning my cheeseburger in 2 layers of Heinz..

I love Heinz mustard on hotdogs with a small bag of Conn's chips and a Pepsi.

The lunch at my Catholic HS - they had something called a Beanery.

[xtc]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by Blazing247
<Give me McCain or a small handfull of others and I'll show you who isn't a deficient in my eyes. >

Well, at least we agree on one thing.

If McCain were running, I suspect I would feel much differently about this election. As is stands, it's Kerry.

And I just got a damn recorded message of propaganda from Bush on the phone.


Put me on the bandwagon with Tsa'ah, Blazing and TRL. I too would vote for John McCain as well.

[Latrinsorm]

The real question is who would vote for Dean.

<-- would.

[Parkbandit]

If Dean didn't have his 'crazy' moment.. I think he might have had a chance at being the nominee.

I also think he would have had a much better chance of beating Bush.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Heinz Ketchup > Hunts Ketchup

Even politics won't deter me from drowning my cheeseburger in 2 layers of Heinz..

I guess the two of you are around the same age.

Starting up your political carreer Park?

I'm not normally humor impaired.. but..

I don't get it.

The post really had more to do with my love of Heinz ketchup than politics.

[Tsa`ah]

My bad, I thought you were talking about Ms Kerry.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
My bad, I thought you were talking about Ms Kerry.

ugh that brought a nasty visual to mind.

[Ilvane]

I got this on the website of the Kerry campaign, but someone asked what Theresa Heinz Kerry has done. Here you go, a little about her.

Born in Mozambique, fluent in several languages, she has combined compassion and common sense to become a force for innovation and social progress as leader of one of the nation's large private foundations. After studying at the University of the Witwatersrand in South Africa and the University of Geneva, she moved to the United States and got a job working for the Trusteeship Council of the United Nations. In 1966, she married Senator John Heinz whom she met when they were graduate students and with whom she had three sons. Shortly after celebrating their 25th wedding anniversary in 1991, she lost her husband in a plane crash.

Turning down offers to seek election to her husband's Senate seat to take care of her sons, family and professional responsibilities, she became chairman of The Howard Heinz Endowment and the Heinz Family Philanthropies. Under her leadership, the Heinz foundations are widely known for developing innovative strategies to protect the environment, improve education and the lives of young children, reduce the cost of prescription drugs, promote the arts and help women achieve financial economic security. She established the Women's Institute for a Secure Retirement in 1996 to educate women about pensions, savings, and retirement security.

Their mutual interest in environmental issues brought Teresa and John together. She was first introduced to John Kerry by Senator Heinz at an Earth Day rally in 1990. In 1992, she met Kerry again at the Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro when President George H. W. Bush appointed her as part of a State Department Delegation representing U.S. non-governmental organizations. She and Sen. Kerry were married in the presence of her three sons and his two daughters on Memorial Day weekend in 1995. Teresa has received numerous awards and 10 honorary degrees for her many works. In September of last year, she was presented with the Albert Schweitzer Gold Medal for Humanitarianism, for her work protecting the environment, promoting health care and education and uplifting women and children throughout the world. She was elected a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2001.

In addition to her three sons and two step-daughters, Teresa is the almost inordinately (but understandably) proud grandmother of one grandchild.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Ilvane
I got this on the website of the Kerry campaign, but someone asked what Theresa Heinz Kerry has done. Here you go, a little about her.

Born in Mozambique, fluent in several languages, she has combined compassion and common sense to become a force for innovation and social progress as leader of one of the nation's large private foundations. After studying at the University of the Witwatersrand in South Africa and the University of Geneva, she moved to the United States and got a job working for the Trusteeship Council of the United Nations. In 1966, she married Senator John Heinz whom she met when they were graduate students and with whom she had three sons. Shortly after celebrating their 25th wedding anniversary in 1991, she lost her husband in a plane crash.

Turning down offers to seek election to her husband's Senate seat to take care of her sons, family and professional responsibilities, she became chairman of The Howard Heinz Endowment and the Heinz Family Philanthropies. Under her leadership, the Heinz foundations are widely known for developing innovative strategies to protect the environment, improve education and the lives of young children, reduce the cost of prescription drugs, promote the arts and help women achieve financial economic security. She established the Women's Institute for a Secure Retirement in 1996 to educate women about pensions, savings, and retirement security.

Their mutual interest in environmental issues brought Teresa and John together. She was first introduced to John Kerry by Senator Heinz at an Earth Day rally in 1990. In 1992, she met Kerry again at the Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro when President George H. W. Bush appointed her as part of a State Department Delegation representing U.S. non-governmental organizations. She and Sen. Kerry were married in the presence of her three sons and his two daughters on Memorial Day weekend in 1995. Teresa has received numerous awards and 10 honorary degrees for her many works. In September of last year, she was presented with the Albert Schweitzer Gold Medal for Humanitarianism, for her work protecting the environment, promoting health care and education and uplifting women and children throughout the world. She was elected a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2001.

In addition to her three sons and two step-daughters, Teresa is the almost inordinately (but understandably) proud grandmother of one grandchild.

Put more simply she doesn't have a real job. She is responsible for spending John Heinz money and she throws a few charity dinners for the socialist elite.

[Ilvane]

Who she was married to for 25 years, and damn well should have some of the money. She is doing her work..

Oh, and I found that Laura Bush was a teacher and librarian in Texas from 1968 to 1977.

It's been a long time since she's been in the workforce. I really don't think Theresa was insulting working mothers by pointing out she hasn't had a job most of her adult life. Being a mother isn't a job, it's a privilege.

Most women don't have the luxury of staying home with their children. Laura Bush was intensely lucky.

-A

[Edited on 10-21-2004 by Ilvane]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
Who she was married to for 25 years, and damn well should have some of the money. She is doing her work..

Oh, and I found that Laura Bush was a teacher and librarian in Texas from 1968 to 1977.

It's been a long time since she's been in the workforce. I really don't think Theresa was insulting working mothers by pointing out she hasn't had a job most of her adult life. Being a mother isn't a job, it's a privilige.

-A

-A

It was a stupid comment by a woman that makes plenty of them.

And my wife would beg to differ with your 'it's not a job, it's a privilege' bullshit as well.

By the way.. I'm still waiting on the link to the assertion where you claimed that Laura Bush was nasty towards Teresa Heinz.

[CrystalTears]

Being a mother isn't a job, it's a privilege.

Heh, I'm pretty sure there are women out there who would disagree. ;)

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by xtc
Put more simply she doesn't have a real job. She is responsible for spending John Heinz money and she throws a few charity dinners for the socialist elite.

Okay XTC, you are on a roll. That's three disparaging comments regarding powerful women today and doesn't include the ones made on Hillary Clinton.

I don't find THK warm or fuzzy, but I consider this sort of commentary on the same lines of those who said that John Kerry wounded himself in order to get his purple hearts.

It takes a real bold person to tear down the efforts of someone who is making the world a better place.

Partisan or not, these sorts of comments just reduce your credibility in my eyes.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by xtc

Put more simply she doesn't have a real job. She is responsible for spending John Heinz money and she throws a few charity dinners for the socialist elite.

Exactly.

[Parkbandit]

Er.. I mean.. xtc.. you shouldn't say bad stuff about powerful women who became powerful by marrying well.

That's what I mean to say.. instead of exactly.

;)

[Sean]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
By the way.. I'm still waiting on the link to the assertion where you claimed that Laura Bush was nasty towards Teresa Heinz.

When did she say that she did?

I read it as her saying Laura Bush was nasty towards John Kerry


Originally posted by Ilvane
Laura Bush has said some nasty things too about John Kerry. Just because she's more polished doesn't mean she's nicer.

[CrystalTears]

It was more like she's not in the position to be saying what is or isn't a job for another woman.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Er.. I mean.. xtc.. you shouldn't say bad stuff about powerful women who became powerful by marrying well.

That's what I mean to say.. instead of exactly.

;)

:gawk: Really, sometimes you just go too far.

[Parkbandit]

That wasn't TOO far. That was toe to the line. ;)

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tijay

Originally posted by Parkbandit
By the way.. I'm still waiting on the link to the assertion where you claimed that Laura Bush was nasty towards Teresa Heinz.

When did she say that she did?

I read it as her saying Laura Bush was nasty towards John Kerry


Originally posted by Ilvane
Laura Bush has said some nasty things too about John Kerry. Just because she's more polished doesn't mean she's nicer.


Ah.. my bad. I thought Ilvane was wrote Teresa.

If it's John.. then there really isn't a point to her argument then.. since Teresa has said PLENTY of nasty things about George.

[Betheny]

I've said plenty of nasty things about George, too.

I'd pwn Laura Bush and the Ketchup Queen in a debate.

All I would have to do is be like, Oh yeah, well VAGINA VAGINA VAGINA and they'd both pass out.

[Edited on 10-21-2004 by Maimara]

[xtc]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by xtc
Put more simply she doesn't have a real job. She is responsible for spending John Heinz money and she throws a few charity dinners for the socialist elite.

Okay XTC, you are on a roll. That's three disparaging comments regarding powerful women today and doesn't include the ones made on Hillary Clinton.

I don't find THK warm or fuzzy, but I consider this sort of commentary on the same lines of those who said that John Kerry wounded himself in order to get his purple hearts.

It takes a real bold person to tear down the efforts of someone who is making the world a better place.

Partisan or not, these sorts of comments just reduce your credibility in my eyes.

How is THK making the world a better place? If you want to really make the world a better place work on the front lines in an AIDS hospice, a nursing home, a homeless shelter. It is easy to throw money to a charity if it is what you have most of.

[Sean]

Just for the record PB essentially admitted he was mistaken on something... Mark the date on your calendars!

[DeV]

If more women considered having children a privledge as well as a full time job we wouldn't have as many baby bad asses running around as we do now.

[Snapp]

I really don't see the big deal about what THK said... From what I heard on the radio this morning, you'd think she called Laura Bush a cunt or something.

PS. I'd also have liked it if Howard Dean ran. :(

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tijay
Just for the record PB essentially admitted he was mistaken on something... Mark the date on your calendars!

I was due.. it's October. I have yet to go an entire year without making at least one mistake.

By the way Tijay.. I hate you.

[Ilvane]

Well, I consider it that way, but maybe I'm silly and naive. Maybe someday I'll make a really good mother, even if I have to adopt.

-A

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by xtc

How is THK making the world a better place? If you want to really make the world a better place work on the front lines in an AIDS hospice, a nursing home, a homeless shelter. It is easy to throw money to a charity if it is what you have most of.

What so then you could accuse her of making the most of a photo-op? Or of visiting the unwashed masses to further her husband's political career?

What would you have her do, just squirrel the money away and take world cruises?

I don't really expect you to understand.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I was due.. it's October. I have yet to go an entire year without making at least one mistake.



The real October Surprise, right here.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Ilvane
I got this on the website of the Kerry campaign, but someone asked what Theresa Heinz Kerry has done. Here you go, a little about her.

Born in Mozambique, fluent in several languages, she has combined compassion and common sense to become a force for innovation and social progress as leader of one of the nation's large private foundations. After studying at the University of the Witwatersrand in South Africa and the University of Geneva, she moved to the United States and got a job working for the Trusteeship Council of the United Nations. In 1966, she married Senator John Heinz whom she met when they were graduate students and with whom she had three sons. Shortly after celebrating their 25th wedding anniversary in 1991, she lost her husband in a plane crash.

Turning down offers to seek election to her husband's Senate seat to take care of her sons, family and professional responsibilities, she became chairman of The Howard Heinz Endowment and the Heinz Family Philanthropies. Under her leadership, the Heinz foundations are widely known for developing innovative strategies to protect the environment, improve education and the lives of young children, reduce the cost of prescription drugs, promote the arts and help women achieve financial economic security. She established the Women's Institute for a Secure Retirement in 1996 to educate women about pensions, savings, and retirement security.

Their mutual interest in environmental issues brought Teresa and John together. She was first introduced to John Kerry by Senator Heinz at an Earth Day rally in 1990. In 1992, she met Kerry again at the Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro when President George H. W. Bush appointed her as part of a State Department Delegation representing U.S. non-governmental organizations. She and Sen. Kerry were married in the presence of her three sons and his two daughters on Memorial Day weekend in 1995. Teresa has received numerous awards and 10 honorary degrees for her many works. In September of last year, she was presented with the Albert Schweitzer Gold Medal for Humanitarianism, for her work protecting the environment, promoting health care and education and uplifting women and children throughout the world. She was elected a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences in 2001.

In addition to her three sons and two step-daughters, Teresa is the almost inordinately (but understandably) proud grandmother of one grandchild.

How much do you get paid for this by the DNC? God damn.

[xtc]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by xtc

How is THK making the world a better place? If you want to really make the world a better place work on the front lines in an AIDS hospice, a nursing home, a homeless shelter. It is easy to throw money to a charity if it is what you have most of.

What so then you could accuse her of making the most of a photo-op? Or of visiting the unwashed masses to further her husband's political career?

What would you have her do, just squirrel the money away and take world cruises?

I don't really expect you to understand.

If she really wants to save the world she should be working on the frontlines not just giving the late John Heinz (Repub)money to charity. If she was genuine she would have done it long before Kerry announced his candidacy for President. Then no one could have accused her of a photo-op.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I was due.. it's October. I have yet to go an entire year without making at least one mistake.

I think telling us you have a Mazda Minivan with a DVD player was a mistake.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Maimara
I've said plenty of nasty things about George, too.

I'd pwn Laura Bush and the Ketchup Queen in a debate.

All I would have to do is be like, Oh yeah, well VAGINA VAGINA VAGINA and they'd both pass out.

[Edited on 10-21-2004 by Maimara] Right, so Maimara 4 Pres in 2016. :yes:

[GSTamral]

Teresa Heinz has no business saying anything about hard work considering it was her husband, not her, that built the fortune. She hasn't earned a dime. She just created a little charity with a tiny proportion of the funds, and considers that to be the apropos of her business career.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Teresa Heinz has no business saying anything about hard work considering it was her husband, not her, that built the fortune. She hasn't earned a dime. She just created a little charity with a tiny proportion of the funds, and considers that to be the apropos of her business career.

Yes, of course because women are just extensions of their husbands.

This category is starting to stink like a male locker room, can you feel the testosterone?

[Ilvane]

Whatever...

-A

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
This category is starting to stink like a male locker room, can you feel the testosterone?

Not just testosterone... Republican testosterone. After all, she and Hillary are strong willed, independent, opinionated female Democrats and that means they are worthless. That THK is obviously smarter than they are, speaking several languages and having worked for the UN, just makes her more threatening.

Notice how Laura Bush who was a teacher (a very womanly occupation right?) and then quit her job when she could live off her husband isn't reviled? Of course, do they have any idea just what THK does? Most likely not. It's so much easier to just write her off as someone who married rich and throws a party for charity once a year without actually researching her history.

Raven

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
This category is starting to stink like a male locker room, can you feel the testosterone?

Not just testosterone... Republican testosterone. After all, she and Hillary are strong willed, independent, opinionated female Democrats and that means they are worthless. That THK is obviously smarter than they are, speaking several languages and having worked for the UN, just makes her more threatening.

Notice how Laura Bush who was a teacher (a very womanly occupation right?) and then quit her job when she could live off her husband isn't reviled? Of course, do they have any idea just what THK does? Most likely not. It's so much easier to just write her off as someone who married rich and throws a party for charity once a year without actually researching her history.

Raven

:yeahthat:

[xtc]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
This category is starting to stink like a male locker room, can you feel the testosterone?

Not just testosterone... Republican testosterone. After all, she and Hillary are strong willed, independent, opinionated female Democrats and that means they are worthless. That THK is obviously smarter than they are, speaking several languages and having worked for the UN, just makes her more threatening.

Notice how Laura Bush who was a teacher (a very womanly occupation right?) and then quit her job when she could live off her husband isn't reviled? Of course, do they have any idea just what THK does? Most likely not. It's so much easier to just write her off as someone who married rich and throws a party for charity once a year without actually researching her history.

Raven

I researched THK's bio before making my comments and before Ilvane posted it. I have defended Laura Bush's decision after working for 10 years to be a stay at home Mom and I have preached the value of that decision and that makes this a locker room discussion? (see chauvinist)

I articulate how Laura Bush has a Masters from U. of Texas and a Bachelors from SMU, is this locker room. How sexist of you to call teaching a women's job, to me it has always been the noblest of professions.


THK decided to open her yap and take a shot at Laura Bush, in the world of gentility that THK is obviously from, a gently offered slight is like a slap across the face. I asked since THK is taking shots what has she done? She married money.....and.......does charity work. I know lots of multilingual, educated, bums who are good for nothing.

So if I don’t agree with your opinion I am threatened is that it? Some how if I disagree there must be something wrong with me, what socialist propaganda.

I have nothing but respect for Elizabeth Dole. US Senator, former President of the Red Cross. Bachelor’s degree from Duke she graduated with distinction, law degree from Harvard, a Masters in Education and Public policy from Harvard. She has accomplishments that would put THK to shame and most Men. Funny how she doesn’t threaten me.

http://dole.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=AboutElizabeth.Biography

[DeV]

I'm sure Laura Bush isn't losing much sleep over the incident.

[Toxicvixen]

I don't think the a person with the last name of Heinz, no matter how she got it, should judge someone for "not working."

[kheldarin]

God, I hate ketchup.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by xtc
...what socialist propaganda.

Oh, yes. I'm a socialist now. That's as good as a certain someone's communist labels about everyone he doesn't agree with.

THK also has two degrees. (We won't mention the 10 honorary ones since I'm sure someone will argue she did nothing worthwhile to get them). She speaks five languages. She was an interpreter for the UN. She easily matches Laura Bush's accomplishments. She's also a philanthropist and activist. And yet, for some reason, everything she has done is discounted.

Feel free to compare her to Laura Bush and explain why.

Raven

[Hulkein]

The point here is THK took a shot at Laura Bush, not the other way around. Had it been the other way around some of what many of you are saying you would be valid.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by xtc
...what socialist propaganda.

Oh, yes. I'm a socialist now. That's as good as a certain someone's communist labels about everyone he doesn't agree with.

THK also has two degrees. (We won't mention the 10 honorary ones since I'm sure someone will argue she did nothing worthwhile to get them). She speaks five languages. She was an interpreter for the UN. She easily matches Laura Bush's accomplishments. She's also a philanthropist and activist. And yet, for some reason, everything she has done is discounted.

Feel free to compare her to Laura Bush and explain why.

Raven

At least post my whole quote

So if I don’t agree with your opinion I am threatened is that it? Some how if I disagree there must be something wrong with me, what socialist propaganda.

Your claim was that the men here felt threaten by THK's so called accomplishments because she is a woman. I think this is a socialist argument, which is different from calling you a socialist. I pointed to my immense respect for Elizabeth Dole to show how ridiculous your claim was.

My initial point was THK took a shot at Laura Bush which wasn't even true. So what has THK done that is so wonderful? Compare THK life with Elizabeth Dole. The point is people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

[DeV]

You are taking this hard, xtc.

[xtc]

Originally posted by DarkelfVold
You are taking this hard, xtc.

I enjoy the debate, I take none of it seriously.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Hulkein
The point here is THK took a shot at Laura Bush, not the other way around. Had it been the other way around some of what many of you are saying you would be valid.

This isn't about the remark she made, Hulkein. She was wrong. She admitted it graciously and apologized.

Despite that, she's also being denigrated as having done nothing in her life but married money while Laura Bush married money and then quit working entirely. So where's the difference between the two women?

Raven

[xtc]

One was employed in a paying profession for ten years, one wasn't. One opened their yap and insulted the other, one didn't

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by xtc
I know lots of multilingual, educated, bums who are good for nothing.
How many people are there in Quebec again? :D

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by xtc
One was employed in a paying profession for ten years, one wasn't.

Oh, I see. I wasn't aware being a translator for the United Nations was classified as unpaid labor. Though I don't know exactly how many years she was one she most certainly had a paying profession.

Raven

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Hulkein
The point here is THK took a shot at Laura Bush, not the other way around. Had it been the other way around some of what many of you are saying you would be valid.

Go read the quotes, Hulkein. If you read them in context - she wasn't taking any shots. I posted them earlier in this discussion.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by xtc
One was employed in a paying profession for ten years, one wasn't.

Oh, I see. I wasn't aware being a translator for the United Nations was classified as unpaid labor. Though I don't know exactly how many years she was one she most certainly had a paying profession.

Raven

My apologies THK hasn't had a paying profession since 1966 when she met billionaire John Heinz.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by xtc
I know lots of multilingual, educated, bums who are good for nothing.
How many people are there in Quebec again? :D

Ouch that is bad Xcalibur won't like that one. BTW I am in Toronto the economic engine of Canada.

[Seran]

THK is just blowing off steam since her husband didn't trounce Bush in the debates like he should have. Just once, I'd have liked to have seen Kerry turn to his Republican foe and call him an ignorant redneck.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Seran
THK is just blowing off steam since her husband didn't trounce Bush in the debates like he should have. Just once, I'd have liked to have seen Kerry turn to his Republican foe and call him an ignorant redneck.

LOL, Seran. The problem was he was never sure which George Bush he was dealing with... petulent child, man in need of anger management or crazed man without his meds.

Would the real George W. Bush, please stand up?

[Prestius]

Much ado about nothing.

"I don't know Laura Bush. But she seems to be calm, and she has a sparkle in her eye, which is good.

"But I don't know that she's ever had a real job, I mean, since she's been grown up."

=========

"I had forgotten that Mrs Bush had worked as a school teacher and librarian, and there couldn't be a more important job than teaching our children," she said in a statement.

"As someone who has been both a full-time mom and full-time in workforce, I know we all have valuable experiences that shape who we are.

"I appreciate and honour Mrs Bush's service to the country as First Lady, and am sincerely sorry I had not remembered her important work in the past."



I mean really .. this is another non-story that has somehow become 8 times bigger than it has any right to be - thank you tabloid media.

Next stupid argument!

-P

[Enoxo]

Laura has more grace in her index finger than Teresa has in her entire body.

Being a full time mother is a job, one of the most important jobs there are.

Nannies do the same thing in raising children, are they not doing a job?

Daycare workers do the same thing in raising children, are they not doing a job?

It is utterly asinine in saying raising children is not a job.

Teresa continuingly has shown that she is full of disgrace. Her apology even piled more of her foot in her mouth when she didn't acknowledge Laura's commitment to her family and children. Mothers around the country are not stupid, and they heard loud and clear what Teresa thinks about them and they are not happy.

As for the person who said Laura has said bad things about anyone, prove it. Laura has never said bad things about anyone because she has the class and grace of a real First Lady, unlike the insane witch of eastwick.

[4a6c1]

Originally posted by kheldarin
God, I hate ketchup.

:lol:

[Galleazzo]

Someone clear something up for me, huh?

Where is Teresa Kerry on any ballot?

If she's not on the ballot, I don't care what she says any more than I listen to what Laura Bush says. We didn't vote for Laura and we can't vote for Teresa.

So WHO THE FUCK CARES?

:compbash:

[Ilvane]

That's what I think too, I mean..I wouldn't vote for Laura either.:) :lol:

She may seem like a nice person, but I'd take a big mouthed woman who isn't afraid to say what she thinks over that any time.:) THK is more entertaining. :lol:

-A

[Victril]

Oh man, the war rages on! Alas, i would read more, but paradoxes only make me hungry. I've noticed that most people's messages that i've read so far try to convey things in a new and unique way , anything to win a debate and demoralize there oponents. Why try to make things so complex, maybe the truth of the matter isn't so obscure as you make it. What if things are simple for once? The Kerry wife made a mistake she's living with. It was a bad thing to say. I'm sure we've all said things we've regretted. At least those of us who still admitt to having a conscious. And apparently the Kerry wife did indeed have one, because she took her words back. So raise your hand if you still have a conscious!

Victril raises his hand!

[Back]

Reowrrr, hiss!

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
Well, I consider it that way, but maybe I'm silly and naive. Maybe someday I'll make a really good mother, even if I have to adopt.

-A

If you have kids.. you won't be that naive. 3am feedings will quickly make you realize you are at a full time job.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
This category is starting to stink like a male locker room, can you feel the testosterone?

Not just testosterone... Republican testosterone. After all, she and Hillary are strong willed, independent, opinionated female Democrats and that means they are worthless. That THK is obviously smarter than they are, speaking several languages and having worked for the UN, just makes her more threatening.

Raven

I know many bi-lingual people who are borderline fucking retards. Speaking different languages does not always denote great intelligence.

And you should talk Raven.. you put down someone like Dr. Rice whenever you have the opportunity. But, because she's a Republican.. it's ok.

Fucking hypocrite.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by xtc
I know lots of multilingual, educated, bums who are good for nothing.
How many people are there in Quebec again? :D

Ouch that is bad Xcalibur won't like that one. BTW I am in Toronto the economic engine of Canada.

I would hardly consider Xcalibur as bi-lingual. I don't know French.. but I imagine he has troubles with that language as well.

:D

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
And you should talk Raven.. you put down someone like Dr. Rice whenever you have the opportunity. But, because she's a Republican.. it's ok.

Okay, I'm going to call bullshit on this one. Please point out where I've ever bashed Condie for anything but her direct statements made during her commission testimony. In fact, I don't think I did so even then. Not even because of the gap in her teeth. /TheE

Or if you can't find that, point out where I've bashed Laura Bush. Or Lynne Cheney. Hell, pick a person male or female - any person - other than Dubya or a member of his government. And I doubt you'll even find much bashing there against anyone but our Moron in Chief.

I want to see this 'whenever I have the opportunity'.

Raven

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by Parkbandit
And you should talk Raven.. you put down someone like Dr. Rice whenever you have the opportunity. But, because she's a Republican.. it's ok.

Okay, I'm going to call bullshit on this one. Please point out where I've ever bashed Condie for anything but her direct statements made during her commission testimony. In fact, I don't think I did so even then. Not even because of the gap in her teeth. /TheE

Or if you can't find that, point out where I've bashed Laura Bush. Or Lynne Cheney. Hell, pick a person male or female - any person - other than Dubya or a member of his government. And I doubt you'll even find much bashing there against anyone but our Moron in Chief.

I want to see this 'whenever I have the opportunity'.

Raven

Saying "except for" as an excuse is like me saying I didn't bash THK ever.. except when she shoved her foot in her mouth.

And let's not forget your long lost CARB free signature with the ending line "And Absolutely no Rice".

[xtc]

OK I am going to open my big yap again and weigh in on Condolezza Rica. She is Bush's faithful lapdog but I will admit that she is an astute political animal. However, despite her education and accomplishments I question her intelligence.

[Ravenstorm]

Oh my. I used a graphic with her included as a signature for a time. That certainly counts as bashing such fine upstanding women as Condie "whenever I can". Gotcha. You've been studying Karl Rove tactics again, haven't you?

Raven

[DeV]

Originally posted by xtc
OK I am going to open my big yap again and weigh in on Condolezza Rica. She is Bush's faithful lapdog but I will admit that she is an astute political animal. However, despite her education and accomplishments I question her intelligence. We agree on something. Oh my.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Oh my. I used a graphic with her included as a signature for a time. That certainly counts as bashing such fine upstanding women as Condie "whenever I can". Gotcha. You've been studying Karl Rove tactics again, haven't you?

Raven

Studying? I taught him everything he knows.

:)

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
This isn't about the remark she made, Hulkein. She was wrong. She admitted it graciously and apologized.

Raven



Originally posted by TheRoseLady
Go read the quotes, Hulkein. If you read them in context - she wasn't taking any shots. I posted them earlier in this discussion.

Looks like you're wrong, Raven.

Try not to speak for everybody.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Looks like you're wrong, Raven.

Try not to speak for everybody.

I was speaking only for myself. My remarks were about why one lady was considered 'scum' when the other's history was just about exactly the same. That's the 'this' I was referring to: my end of the debate.

Oh, and just to add a note to the Condie Rice end of things, when you're a mouthpiece for the government that automatically makes you a target. And I still never bashed her as a person which is what was being done to THK.

Raven

[Hulkein]

Well saying 'this isn't about the remark she made' when I never even addressed you leads most people to believe you are speaking for more than yourself.

[Ravenstorm]

My mistake then as I thought you were addressing me. Your post directly followed mine and you didn't quote anyone.

Raven

[Enoxo]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
Look at the guy, he can't even campaign without filling all of his stops with loyal Bush supporters, yes, you have to sign a loyalty oath to Bush to attend.

Where is this idea of a loyalty oath having to be signed to attend Bush's gatherings. :?:

I've attended Bush gatherings and never had to sign a thing. Granted, he's surrounded by supporters, but that's about the extent of it.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Enoxo

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
Look at the guy, he can't even campaign without filling all of his stops with loyal Bush supporters, yes, you have to sign a loyalty oath to Bush to attend.

Where is this idea of a loyalty oath having to be signed to attend Bush's gatherings. :?:

I've attended Bush gatherings and never had to sign a thing. Granted, he's surrounded by supporters, but that's about the extent of it.

The first is specifically about an oath. The second is that they screen to make sure that Republicans are those attend. I've read numerous articles about people being made to leave for wearing Kerry buttons, T-shirts with a peace motto etc.

Obtaining Cheney Rally Ticket Requires Signing Bush Endorsement (http://www.abqjournal.com/elex/204620elex07-30-04.htm)

The following is in the NY Times but is archived, so I'll post it for you to read.

Supporters Get Incentive Plans At Bush Rallies NY Times ^ | September 28, 2004 | DAVID M. HALBFINGER


Want to see the president when he comes to your town? Get in line - to make phone calls for his campaign.

President Bush's campaign aides say they have hit on a novel way to recruit volunteers for his get-out-the-vote army. Anyone wanting to attend one of Mr. Bush's campaign rallies, anywhere in the country, has to get a ticket first. And anyone wanting a ticket, or a coveted spot up front, can improve his chances by putting in a few hours at a phone bank, canvassing Republican homes or putting up lawn signs.

Campaign rallies may be as old as politics itself, but in this year of earliests, firsts and most-expensive-evers, the Bush campaign has taken this most basic form of communication to a new state of the art, by pressing audiences to work as foot soldiers, before, during and immediately after Bush events.

The tactic points up a stark difference between the presidential campaigns: while Senator John Kerry is using his rallies and forums to try to reach undecided voters and to close the deal with standoffish Democrats, Mr. Bush is packing his audiences with supporters who must identify themselves as such in questionnaires and whipping them into brigades ready to blitz crucial districts to get every last voter to the polls.

Kerry aides scoff at the invitation-only audiences and what they say is the shanghai-ing of volunteers. "We don't require oaths of allegiance, and we don't take people captive," said Tom Shea, director of the Kerry campaign in Florida, after turning out close to 10,000 people for a rally in Orlando last Tuesday where, he said, 700 people signed up to help.

But Donald P. Green, a professor of political science at Yale and the author of "Get Out the Vote! How to Increase Voter Turnout," said Mr. Bush's strategy was inspired. "There's a basic principle in experimental psychology, that the hand teaches the heart," Professor Green said. "You've now made phone calls for George Bush; that helps solidify your commitment to the campaign. If you weren't enthusiastic and committed already, you might be now."

At a rally in Bangor, Me., last Thursday, Katrina Waite had driven nearly two hours and then waited seven more under a sweltering sun to see the president. The reward for her early arrival? A spot way in back, atop a flatbed truck, where she downed cups of water fetched by her two children to stave off the heat.

Ms. Waite said her mother had earned a spot up front. "She did three hours of phone calling to get it," she said, peering to try to pick her mother out in the crowd.

If Mr. Bush likes to call his retail politicking "fertilizing the grass roots," the volunteer recruitment can create a kind of hothouse effect.

When Laura Bush came to Maine a few weeks ago, for example, scores of people were persuaded to stick around and make calls from a phone bank in the basement of the building where she spoke.

And when Mr. Bush concluded an hourlong "Ask President Bush" event in Hudson, Wis., not long ago, the 1,500 people who attended were directed toward a giant tent set up with tables, chairs and telephones, and encouraged to make calls for a few hours.

"In this campaign, we've taken advantage of every opportunity to engage people," said Randy Bumps, the campaign's Maine director.

The campaign began engaging potential recruits as soon as the Bangor rally was scheduled, a week earlier. Those who wanted tickets were required to apply for them, filling out forms stating their home and e-mail addresses, phone numbers, Social Security numbers, willingness to volunteer and whether they supported the president.

And in the days before the rally, supporters were enticed to make calls for the campaign with promises of a spot closer to the president, according to many in the crowd.

Mr. Bumps said the "excitement" generated by the president's visit meant that the campaign for the first time met its weekly goal of 20,000 phone calls to Mainers.

Asked whether opponents of Mr. Bush's were welcome, Reed Dickens, a national campaign spokesman, said the policy was to reward Mr. Bush's most eager supporters first when allocating the "limited number" of tickets.

Even so, space is rarely scarce at rallies for Mr. Bush. Only about 4,000 of the 9,400 people given tickets to the Bangor event showed. (Mr. Bumps insisted that undecided voters were welcome, but if there were any at the rally, they did a good job of faking their enthusiasm for Mr. Bush.)

The invitation-only policy - and its application by what Bush campaign officials call overzealous organizers at the local level - has given rise to repeated instances across the country where rallygoers were asked to sign affidavits of support to get tickets.

And Mr. Kerry, at his own events, has taken to mocking Mr. Bush's policy. "No one here had to sign a loyalty oath to get in, right?" he said last Tuesday in Jacksonville, Fla.

Another result is a recurring cat-and-mouse game with those who want to taunt Mr. Bush. With rare exceptions, including the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq who heckled Mrs. Bush in New Jersey, few have made it past the screening process. But in Bangor at least a dozen hecklers got in, which Mr. Bumps chalked up to the fact that it was Mr. Bush's first stop in Maine of the campaign.

One protester, Michael Thorne, 51, said he had come partly out of anger that Mr. Bush closed his rallies to the public. "He's my president, too," he said.

This was after Mr. Thorne had yelled "No more lies!" during Mr. Bush's speech, been quickly surrounded by half a dozen campaign aides heatedly yelling "Four more years!" and been hustled out of the rally with several others wearing anti-Bush T-shirts by security guards and police officers.

The Kerry campaign, mindful that Mr. Kerry still has Democrats to convince and swing voters to reach, has opened his rallies to the public. At the Orlando rally, for example, thousands of tickets were given away to constituents like labor unions and environmental groups, but tickets were not required, and thousands more people showed up after the rally was advertised on local radio stations the day before.

Kerry aides expressed surprise at the Bush campaign's focus on core Republican voters apparently at the expense of undecided or swing voters, and they said that the Kerry campaign was courting both dedicated Democrats and middle-of-the-road voters.

"It's like going to Disney World, only instead of the cartoon character saying you have to be this tall to ride, they have a picture of Rush Limbaugh saying you have to be this right-wing to get in," Mr. Shea said.

But Bush aides say that chasing swing voters may be a waste of time. "We believe that the number of undecideds or independent voters is smaller this election than ever before," said Mr. Dickens, the campaign spokesman.

The Bush campaign may be packing its audiences with die-hard supporters, he said, but it is holding its events in swing districts where every extra enthusiastic volunteer can make a difference.

Even those loyal audience members have their limits, however. Christian Morris, 23, a member of the Bush campaign staff, was rebuffed several times as she mingled in the Bangor crowd trying to sign up volunteers before Janelle Vigue, 17, accosted her and offered to enlist.

Ms. Vigue said she had her own reasons for wanting a glimpse of the political process. "I want to run for president some day," she said.

[Edited on 10-23-2004 by TheRoseLady]

[Enoxo]

Ah. NY Times, figures.

Well, I can say for fact that it's not true - insofar as the gatherings I have attended. Never signed anything stating I was a Republican or whether or not I was voting for Bush.

I got my tickets through a friend who works with the Republican Committee locally and all that was required was my name to be put on the list. <shrug>

[TheRoseLady]

Don't you think that by virtue of getting tickets from a friend that you may have bypassed the requirement to the loyalty oath?

The point is that it's my president too. I shouldn't have to sign an oath to get a seat to see him. It irritates me and it's just plain wrong.

[Weedmage Princess]

That's one woman who really needs to learn when to just shut up. She's more of a liability to her husband than anything else as far as this campaign goes.

[Parkbandit]

I hope she continues for the next couple weeks actually....

:saint:

[CrystalTears]

:lol2: @ PB

[Back]

At least she has a clit. Laura Bush is like a stepford wife.

[Latrinsorm]

Uhhhhhhhh, was that really abrupt for anyone else, or should I have gone to sleep half an hour ago?

[Enoxo]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
Don't you think that by virtue of getting tickets from a friend that you may have bypassed the requirement to the loyalty oath?

No, because there is no such thing as a loyalty oath. I called my friend up and he said it's just left-wing stupidity.

<shrug> Take it for what you will. If I had to sign such a thing, I wouldn't have went to any of the rallys because the concept is stupid. (Plus, I'm not really a Republican, though I do support Bush).

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Enoxo
No, because there is no such thing as a loyalty oath. I called my friend up and he said it's just left-wing stupidity.

I'm glad your friend knows everything. Perhaps he should explain to the people here (http://www.abqjournal.com/elex/204620elex07-30-04.htm) how wrong they are. Next he can explain how there really are WMD in Iraq and that the tooth fairy is real.

Raven

[xtc]

Originally posted by Backlash
At least she has a clit. Laura Bush is like a stepford wife.

I bet it is one nasty clit.

[xtc]

This is cheap 11th hour tactics by the left wing media (NY Times). I very much doubt if a loyalty oath is required. Getting people to help out on a campaign is a great strategy to engage supporters and undecideds. It does solidify their support. I like the idea I have help run a few campaigns and I will use it myself next time. Attacks at campaign stops by members of the opposing party are a gorilla warfare tactic used. I too have vetted people to attend campaign stops and rewarded volunteers with a spot close to the candidate. Sounds like the man is running a smart campaign.
I just seriously doubt the loyalty oath stuff.

In the next few weeks both sides will be bringing out their dirty tricks and both sides will have the media outlets loyal to them playing their dirty tricks. PAY NO ATTENTION TO THEM

[Edited on 10-24-2004 by xtc]

[Back]

What is true is that the Bush campaign dosen’t bother with undecided or democratic crowds anymore. They only make stops to talk to Republicans. Bad move. Another sign he won’t get another term.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Backlash
What is true is that the Bush campaign dosen’t bother with undecided or democratic crowds anymore. They only make stops to talk to Republicans. Bad move. Another sign he won’t get another term.

I seriously doubt Bush is ignoring the undecided. I have worked on a few local campaigns and you spend almost all of your time trying to sway the undecideds to your side. If I can't figure this out I am sure Karl Rove and crew can.

Now whether Bush will win or not is anybodies guess. If the polls are right this will be one very close election.

[TheRoseLady]

Amazing isn't it XTC? First, the story is from the end of September - not 11th hour, but thank you for that brilliant analysis. Secondly this is not from the NY Times.

"Yier Shi, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, which is putting on Saturday's event, confirmed that those interested in seeing Cheney were asked to sign an endorsement form if they couldn't be verified as Bush-Cheney supporters."

"He said campaign workers got such verification by checking to see whether, among other things, someone has contributed money or volunteered for the campaign. When asked whether workers were also checking the party affiliation of those asking for tickets, he said that was a possibility."


An endorsement form provided to the Journal by Random says: "I, (full name) ... do herby (sic) endorse George W. Bush for reelection of the United States." It later adds that, "In signing the above endorsement you are consenting to use and release of your name by Bush-Cheney as an endorser of President Bush."

It is happening, and it pisses me off. It doesn't matter if you think that it's not. I was asked to back up my statement and I did.

The last time I checked - a T-Shirt with a peace motto was not a gorilla warfare tactic. You can dismiss it and ignore it but that doesn't mean that there's no truth to it. Really now, it's all lies and liberal propaganda.

I assert again, that I should be entitled to go see my president or vice-president. I shouldn't have to sign anything.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by Backlash
What is true is that the Bush campaign dosen’t bother with undecided or democratic crowds anymore. They only make stops to talk to Republicans. Bad move. Another sign he won’t get another term.

I seriously doubt Bush is ignoring the undecided. I have worked on a few local campaigns and you spend almost all of your time trying to sway the undecideds to your side. If I can't figure this out I am sure Karl Rove and crew can.

Now whether Bush will win or not is anybodies guess. If the polls are right this will be one very close election.

XTC, do you see the media programs here in the US? Just curious, because it's been stated repeatedly that Bush is concentrating on his base. He packs his stops with his faithful and has been criticized because that trained him to enjoy adoring crowds where he hasn't had to answer any tough questions.

I'm not suggesting that he's completely ignoring undecideds but his message is crafted for his faithful, in contrast to Kerry who is most assuredly trying to mobilize his base plus speaking to the undecideds.

[Parkbandit]

In other news.. great commercial by Swiftboat Vets.

I personally liked it.

[CrystalTears]

This is mostly in jest, I just thought the ad was funny to hear.

John Kerry agrees with you (http://www.wabcradio.com/listingsentryheadline.asp?ID=259078&PT=WABC+News)

[Back]

It is funny. SNL last night had plenty of digs on both candidates. And bananas. LOL

Also, I hear, NBC will be airing an SNL special of all their political satire the night of the election during prime time.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
were asked to sign an endorsement form if they couldn't be verified as Bush-Cheney supportersFunny, but it doesn't say "were arrested if they didn't sign". It doesn't even say "were turned away if they didn't sign". Curiouser and curiouser.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
were asked to sign an endorsement form if they couldn't be verified as Bush-Cheney supportersFunny, but it doesn't say "were arrested if they didn't sign". It doesn't even say "were turned away if they didn't sign". Curiouser and curiouser.


LOL, you know.....if you don't believe it, who cares. Can't you at least read the article before you show that you didn't bother? Here I'll save you the effort and post it. My last post on this topic, it pisses me off and no amount of skeptcism by the opposition will change that.


Obtaining Cheney Rally Ticket Requires Signing Bush Endorsement

By Jeff Jones
Journal Staff Writer
Some would-be spectators hoping to attend Vice President Dick Cheney's rally in Rio Rancho this weekend walked out of a Republican campaign office miffed and ticketless Thursday after getting this news:
Unless you sign an endorsement for President George W. Bush, you're not getting any passes.
The Albuquerque Bush-Cheney Victory office in charge of doling out the tickets to Saturday's event was requiring the endorsement forms from people it could not verify as supporters.
State Rep. Dan Foley, R-Roswell, speaking on behalf of the Republican Party, said Thursday that a "known Democrat operative group" was intending to try to crash Saturday's campaign rally at Rio Rancho Mid-High School. He added that some people were providing false names and addresses and added that tickets for the limited-seating event should go to loyal Bush backers.
However, some who left the office off Osuna NE without tickets on Thursday said they're not affiliated with an operative group and should have a right to see their vice president without pledging their allegiance to Bush.
"I'm outraged at this. I'm being closed off by my own government. It's crazy," said East Mountains resident Pamela Random, who added that she is an unaffiliated voter.
John Wade of Albuquerque said he initially signed the endorsement but was having second thoughts before he even left the office. Wade, a Democrat, said he returned his tickets and demanded to get his endorsement form back.
"It's not right for me to have to sign an endorsement to hear (Cheney) speak," Wade said. "I'm still pissed. This just ain't right."
Yier Shi, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, which is putting on Saturday's event, confirmed that those interested in seeing Cheney were asked to sign an endorsement form if they couldn't be verified as Bush-Cheney supporters.
He said campaign workers got such verification by checking to see whether, among other things, someone has contributed money or volunteered for the campaign. When asked whether workers were also checking the party affiliation of those asking for tickets, he said that was a possibility.
John Sanchez, chairman of the Bush-Cheney '04 re-election effort in the Southwest, said he wasn't aware of the endorsement matter, adding, "I would be surprised" if it was happening. However, he said he works directly for the Bush-Cheney campaign and the rally is a Republican National Committee event.
An endorsement form provided to the Journal by Random says: "I, (full name) ... do herby (sic) endorse George W. Bush for reelection of the United States." It later adds that, "In signing the above endorsement you are consenting to use and release of your name by Bush-Cheney as an endorser of President Bush."
A Journal reporter, who is a registered Democrat, called to inquire about a ticket Thursday afternoon. He was asked for his name, address and driver's license number but was not told over the telephone that he would need to sign any endorsement form. He got the news after arriving at the Bush-Cheney office.
Random and Wade said they were also not informed of the requirement until they showed up at the office.
Another Journal employee, who is a registered Republican, visited the office Thursday morning and got a ticket without being asked to sign the form.
The John Kerry/John Edwards campaign on Thursday issued a news release that asked, "Shouldn't all New Mexicans have the right to see their VP?"
Ruben Pulido Jr., a spokesman for that campaign, said the Democratic Party has no screening requirements for those interested in seeing Kerry or Edwards.
When Kerry visited Albuquerque earlier this month, a contingent of Bush supporters were in the crowd. The Associated Press has reported that the group chanted "Viva Bush!" during the event. The AP added that Kerry urged the crowd to tolerate the Bush supporters.
Moses Mercado, head of the Kerry-Edwards campaign in New Mexico, was in Boston on Thursday for the Democratic National Convention. He challenged Republicans to open their event "to all New Mexicans."
"I love when they come to New Mexico, but I wish they'd talk to New Mexicans and let New Mexicans hear their plan," Mercado said. "Because I think they (New Mexicans) really are hungry. They want answers."
Foley countered that Republicans weren't invited to Kerry's nomination-acceptance speech Thursday evening at that convention.
"This is a political event— just like (Thursday night)," Foley said of Cheney's upcoming visit.
Shi said the Rio Rancho event is intended to "energize" Bush-Cheney supporters, and organizers don't want it disrupted.
"We've received dozens and dozens of calls from Kerry-Edwards (supporters) who have used deceitful tactics to try and get in and disrupt this event," he said. "Our supporters have worked too hard to have an event like this get disrupted."
Security for Cheney's visit is exceptionally tight. There will be no parking at the school where he is to speak: Rally participants will instead be shuttled to the event.
Those without tickets, including protesters, are to be in a designated area across from the school.
Jim Tillery, a Rio Rancho teacher, signed the endorsement form when he came to the office Thursday afternoon. But he said he sees no problem with having Bush detractors in the crowd.
Tillery said there was a "mixed crowd" when Cheney made a visit to Rio Rancho in October 2000, and Cheney deftly handled questions from those detractors.
This time around, "my guess is they probably just wanted a rally of support rather than having the diggers or bashers mixed in with them," he said.

Journal politics writer Andy Lenderman contributed to this report.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
Can't you at least read the article before you show that you didn't bother?
I had a scathing reply, but I figured the problem out first. In that first post there, you posted a link and then an article. I figured they were the same. My bad.

[xtc]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
Amazing isn't it XTC? First, the story is from the end of September - not 11th hour, but thank you for that brilliant analysis. Secondly this is not from the NY Times.

"Yier Shi, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, which is putting on Saturday's event, confirmed that those interested in seeing Cheney were asked to sign an endorsement form if they couldn't be verified as Bush-Cheney supporters."

"He said campaign workers got such verification by checking to see whether, among other things, someone has contributed money or volunteered for the campaign. When asked whether workers were also checking the party affiliation of those asking for tickets, he said that was a possibility."


An endorsement form provided to the Journal by Random says: "I, (full name) ... do herby (sic) endorse George W. Bush for reelection of the United States." It later adds that, "In signing the above endorsement you are consenting to use and release of your name by Bush-Cheney as an endorser of President Bush."

It is happening, and it pisses me off. It doesn't matter if you think that it's not. I was asked to back up my statement and I did.

The last time I checked - a T-Shirt with a peace motto was not a gorilla warfare tactic. You can dismiss it and ignore it but that doesn't mean that there's no truth to it. Really now, it's all lies and liberal propaganda.

I assert again, that I should be entitled to go see my president or vice-president. I shouldn't have to sign anything.

Sept 11 is the 11th hour in an election campaign that started months ago.

There were 2 articles the one posted was from the NY Times, the link was from a New Mexico paper written by a registered Democrat, left wing media. Albuquerque is hardly the centre of the Universe yet what a big story.

““A Journal reporter, who is a registered Democrat””

Regarding the endorsement you are partially correct however it isn’t an official policy

” John Sanchez, chairman of the Bush-Cheney '04 re-election effort in the Southwest, said he wasn't aware of the endorsement matter, adding, "I would be surprised" if it was happening. However, he said he works directly for the Bush-Cheney campaign and the rally is a Republican National Committee event”[i]”

AND

“The invitation-only policy - and its application by what Bush campaign officials call overzealous organizers at the local level”[i]

Yes it looks like some local Repubs went over board in Albuquerque.

Now regarding Gorilla warfare tactics, which I have seen myself while working on campaigns.

“This was after Mr. Thorne had yelled "No more lies!" during Mr. Bush's speech..... with several others wearing anti-Bush T-shirts.”[i]

“State Rep. Dan Foley, R-Roswell, speaking on behalf of the Republican Party, said Thursday that a "known Democrat operative group" was intending to try to crash Saturday's campaign rally at Rio Rancho Mid-High School. He added that some people were providing false names and addresses”[i]

A little more then peace t-shirts hmmm?

Regarding your President and V.P. it seems this was an isolated incidence blown out of proportion by the media with an agenda. I am sure you will have no problem attending any Bush rally.

[Edited on 10-25-2004 by xtc]

[Edited on 10-25-2004 by xtc]

[xtc]

[/quote]

XTC, do you see the media programs here in the US? Just curious, because it's been stated repeatedly that Bush is concentrating on his base. He packs his stops with his faithful and has been criticized because that trained him to enjoy adoring crowds where he hasn't had to answer any tough questions.

I'm not suggesting that he's completely ignoring undecideds but his message is crafted for his faithful, in contrast to Kerry who is most assuredly trying to mobilize his base plus speaking to the undecideds. [/quote]


We have ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CNN, and many others. We also have coverage of the election on Canadian stations. Our papers cover the election. We get the AP & Reuters stories as well. Many of our papers run article originally posted in US papers.

We even have hot & cold running water.

Now campaign stops should be packed with party faithfuls and well as undecideds. Every attempt should be made to weed out member of the opposing party who are hoping their antics are caught on national television and hope to show up the candidate.

Bush has been hammering home his message which is what he should do. he should tell farmers in Ohio that Kerry is pro gay marriage & pro abortion and pro UN. That is how you sway undecided voters in conservative states.

You don't want to answer tough questions at campaign stops and get caught on camera doing it. Don't tell me Kerry is taking tough questions at campaign stops and that he hasn't packed those stops with party faithfuls. This politics 101.

What you are hoping for is a sound bite on the evening news that the rest of the state will hear. i.e. John Kerry is the choice of the terrorists. This is smart campaigning.

The few thousand people at the campaign stop don't add up to a hill of beans. It is the national media coverage of the campaign stop that counts.

Perception is everything.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by xtc


We have ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CNN, and many others. We also have coverage of the election on Canadian stations. Our papers cover the election. We get the AP & Reuters stories as well. Many of our papers run article originally posted in US papers.

We even have hot & cold running water.

Now campaign stops should be packed with party faithfuls and well as undecideds. Every attempt should be made to weed out member of the opposing party who are hoping their antics are caught on national television and hope to show up the candidate.

Bush has been hammering home his message which is what he should do. he should tell farmers in Ohio that Kerry is pro gay marriage & pro abortion and pro UN. That is how you sway undecided voters in conservative states.

You don't want to answer tough questions at campaign stops and get caught on camera doing it. Don't tell me Kerry is taking tough questions at campaign stops and that he hasn't packed those stops with party faithfuls. This politics 101.

What you are hoping for is a sound bite on the evening news that the rest of the state will hear. i.e. John Kerry is the choice of the terrorists. This is smart campaigning.

The few thousand people at the campaign stop don't add up to a hill of beans. It is the national media coverage of the campaign stop that counts.

Perception is everything. [/quote]

Well, my question was innocent, I don't watch Canadian TV in the US, so why would I assume that you do in Canada.

As I told Latrin, it matters not if you don't agree. You can choose to completely ignore the tactics used by the RNC, it is well within my right to be outraged - which I am. And if you think that there are a few isolated incidences then I suggest that you investigate a little bit more. I challenge you to find any instances of any sort of this stuff at Kerry stops.

Lastly - do you remember when you said that you didn't trust factcheck.org? Which is actually the source that is widely recognized as a reliable non-partisan group and never once gave me anything else that you consider non-partisan. When you attempt to discount or discredit a source, I laugh.

It's even more naive to think that only one tiny newspaper with a circulation of 110,000 daily carried the loyalty oath story. I guess that MSNBC and Rolling Stone Magazine are also just too liberal and biased too right?

This whole discarding of things because of the source is getting humorous. If there's no true rebuttal, we'll just say that it's the liberal media and forget it.

The last comment for me, I shouldn't have to sign anything stating that I will vote for the President in order to see and hear him when he stops to speak to us "farmers here in Ohio".