I want to roll a semi but undecided on the profession !

[compmenacer]

I have a pocket sorc train 51 but his stats are jacked and I don't have the funds or any gear on him so I am using him for spells atm. Currently playing a warrior and looking for something to play on the side or possibly duo them. I hear monk has many problems and I am not interested at all in a paladin so I am left with bard and ranger and they both seem very fun in different ways. I do need a good source of income would the bard be better for that for singing ? or possible the ranger for skinning I know skinning was good money back in the day but not sure about now since a lot of things seem over hunted. So I guess my main reason is to play something to make some gc so I can acquire some nice things later on. Which would be better for that ? I apologize if this is the wrong forum for this but there is no general profession forum :)

[Astray]

I personally vote for Ranger.

[JackWhisper]

Rangers: Retarded postcap power. They can spikethorn and avoid every defensive structure set in place by the game. Absolutely bring nothing else to a group.
Bards: Retarded postcap pure power. Semi decent swinging power. As a pure, they can sonic disruption and destroy everything. Especially if you're on a 30mil bard and decide to sonic an ENTIRE ROOM DURING AN INVASION! *YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!* Brings plenty of assistance to groups through bard songs.
Paladins: Retarded postcap swinging power. Semi decent pure power. Strongest AS potential in game. Very respectable DS/TD. Can hunt self-spelled and survive anywhere easily. With the spell changes, they've become even more so desirable, especially because of 1608 and 1618.

Good luck in your choice.
I recommend paladin. I'm biased. I'm a paladin.

[compmenacer]

Yeah I have not really looked to much into the paladin honestly.

[JackWhisper]

Before the change, they were the same they are now, just a bit bland postcap. You could be self sufficient, but it was sorta boring.

Now with the change you have a lot more versatility and groups really appreciate a paladin now. And you can do so much more! So it's a lot more fun. A plain capped dwarf pally with junk stats sold for 500 bucks just a couple weeks ago.

[kutter]

I play all 3, my bard is 43, my paladin is 41, and my ranger is 14, I guess that sums up how I feel about each of them. For solo hunting, paladin is probably best then ranger, for duo and up, bard obviously, but that really only applies at lower levels, at upper levels things tend to even out, especially if you have a MoC paladin swinging a polearm, they can wreck a room, especially if someone cast e-wave right before a strike. Ranger can weed and spikethorn which clearly helps others.

I say, figure out what you want to play and play that, everything else will sort itself out.

[Astray]

Pure bards are flashy and can trash pretty much everything. Face melting goodness. As a swinging bard... eh... they have big potential for swinging weapons that are massive but it's not really a boon until later on when they can cast their self haste.

Paladins swing so hard, it's not even funny. Their spells are pretty group friendly. They hit hard as fuck. Sword/blunt and board works very well. Did I mention they hit hard as fuck?

[Maerit]

I feel like:

The bard will probably pair best with your warrior only because of the incredible songs that bolster group play so substantially, unless your Warrior is using a shield - in which case 1609 (Divine Shield) would probably edge the Paladin above the Bard in group utility. They have similar number of spells to share with the party, but the Bard's are more general and the Paladin has some very specific "niche" group spells.

Bards also tend to make better money than Ranger due to purification of gems and their prime stat of Influence increasing their overall charisma with shop keepers (slightly). Along with the utility of loresinging items that comes in handy pretty often. Though you can eventually perform resistance services with a Ranger that will earn some cash - it's just not as accessible / convenient as purifying your own gems for coin.

Paladins have no additional money-making utility.

Rangers have some extra hunting options that are excluded from Paladins and Bards (i.e. sniping with a bow) along with being powerful at foraging and skinning which helps getting bounty points easily.

/2cents

[Whirlin]

Bard will be the most powerful super post cap, but will be the weakest starting out.

Paladin will be a powerhouse the entire way through, but get relatively boring along the way.

Ranger is in the middle between the two... and definitely #1 in defenses of the three.

[Jymamon]

My $0.02... I like both the ranger and bard (mine are 56 and 61, respectively, for context).

The ranger will generally produce more income at lower levels... they can start skinning immediately. Long term, it depends on hunting areas that generate valuable skins. While mine does skin, I haven't tried to make it a priority so I don't know how good that selection is.

For the bard, I've never considered bard singing much of an income producer, largely because it depends on other characters needing the service, you being available, and both being able to get to a common location. Hassle. Purify and cheap trading skill is my bard's income producer. At higher levels, you'll blow up less gems and more trading means more value on everything. Hunting gem rich areas will be better.

For utility, I like both. Ranger spell ups seem to be harder to come by than others, so having colors and mobility (and resist elements to a much lesser extend) ready available is handy. Bard songs, however, are freaking useful and you can't get them via just being spelled up.

If you're looking to play the character long term, the suggestions above regarding picking whichever you enjoy more and going with it are right on. I don't think you'll be disappointed with either.

If you plan to level the character up then sit him at a table, decide if you want spells or income more. Rangers can't get skin income unless you're hunting them, but can spell up your warrior no matter where he goes. Bards don't really provide a spell up unless they're hunting with you, but can generate income sitting at a table and working through the gems your main dropped off from his last hunt.

Or say "fuck it" and level up one of each. That's how I ended up with both.

[Note, I'm also assuming a paid account. I have no idea how f2p restrictions might affect the above information.]

[JackWhisper]

I feel like:

The bard will probably pair best with your warrior only because of the incredible songs that bolster group play so substantially, unless your Warrior is using a shield - in which case 1609 (Divine Shield) would probably edge the Paladin above the Bard in group utility. They have similar number of spells to share with the party, but the Bard's are more general and the Paladin has some very specific "niche" group spells.

Bards also tend to make better money than Ranger due to purification of gems and their prime stat of Influence increasing their overall charisma with shop keepers (slightly). Along with the utility of loresinging items that comes in handy pretty often. Though you can eventually perform resistance services with a Ranger that will earn some cash - it's just not as accessible / convenient as purifying your own gems for coin.

Paladins have no additional money-making utility.

Rangers have some extra hunting options that are excluded from Paladins and Bards (i.e. sniping with a bow) along with being powerful at foraging and skinning which helps getting bounty points easily.

/2cents

He's actually right about that. We can't loresing or do resists. We can raise though ^^. Limited as it is, it brings in cash for me daily haha.

[Maerit]

[Note, I'm also assuming a paid account. I have no idea how f2p restrictions might affect the above information.]

F2P is a good point - Do not ever bother to use a Bard with F2P. You cannot use a significant number of spell songs as a F2P bard. Here's a list:

1004 (restricted)
1006 (self-only)
1007 (self-only)
1011 (restricted)
1015 (restricted)
1016 (restricted)
1017 (restricted)
1018 (restricted)
1020 (once every couple hours or something)
1035 (self-only)

Not sure about 1030 or 1040. Anything that is room effect will be restricted, and group-wide bard songs will not affect your group.

Paladins are the complete opposite. There's no reason to pay for a paladin account since you can cast every single spell without restriction, and all of them will apply to the party for some reason... Which makes no sense, but - Simu. Paladins are not only the best F2P semi - they are the best F2P class (F2P actually stands for Free-To-Paladin).

You won't be able to buff anyone up as a F2P Ranger, but they do fine on their own and are not overly restricted like the Bard if you are doing a free account.

[mgoddess]

I'm very, very, VERY biased with this suggestion, but...

Paladin... definitely paladin.

I've had three different paladins, my main is one of those, at 76. She makes good money (20k per (very quick) hunt in minos; she does have 40 ranks in both survival & first aid, so she gets decent money on skins), and can kick ass up-hunting pretty decently.

If you can make it through the first twenty or thirty levels as a bard, they can also kick ass. Self-sung armor, weapon (that, at base enchant, is permablessed), shield... self-haste at a certain level, purifying gems, loresinging your loot (and other's! especially with Duskruin open!), 1030 being able to rip shit apart...

Rangers, once they get enough levels, can do pretty decently, but I kinda feel they're middle-of-the-road, jack-of-all-trades sorts. They can be more physical, they can be more magical... pretty good, over-all generalists, in my opinion.

I'm still very biased into loving paladins, though. heh

[JackWhisper]

You can't use 1640. Assumed, but it's logical. That's the pally raise.

[Whirlin]

F2P is a good point - Do not ever bother to use a Bard with F2P. You cannot use a significant number of spell songs as a F2P bard. Here's a list:

1004 (restricted)
1006 (self-only)
1007 (self-only)
1011 (restricted)
1015 (restricted)
1016 (restricted)
1017 (restricted)
1018 (restricted)
1020 (once every couple hours or something)
1035 (self-only)

Not sure about 1030 or 1040. Anything that is room effect will be restricted, and group-wide bard songs will not affect your group.

Paladins are the complete opposite. There's no reason to pay for a paladin account since you can cast every single spell without restriction, and all of them will apply to the party for some reason... Which makes no sense, but - Simu. Paladins are not only the best F2P semi - they are the best F2P class (F2P actually stands for Free-To-Paladin).

You won't be able to buff anyone up as a F2P Ranger, but they do fine on their own and are not overly restricted like the Bard if you are doing a free account.

1006 and 1007 being self cast isn't really an issue unless you're planning on making a pocket hunting combo. Even then, grouping mechanics need some advancements before this really matters.
The only one that I would really care about on the list is 1018... and even then, if it's only restricted to the user, that's no big deal. 1011 and 1016 restrictions kind of hurt, but they're incredibly niche in applicable situations. If you're playing a F2P, by the time you're actually of level to consistently run any of those restricted spells, or be in a hunting ground that you wouldn't be able to manage without them, while taking into account the necessary mana and mana costs associated in addition to keeping 1003, 1006, 1007, 1010, 1014, 1019 up, you'll be over level 60, and it'll be at least the year 2020.

[compmenacer]

Now you all have me looking at paladin more. Is the profession too similar to my warrior though ? bard and ranger can go pure later if I wanted too. The paladin seems like fun but I want to have a choice of a different hunting style than my warrior.

[Maerit]

1006 and 1007 being self cast isn't really an issue unless you're planning on making a pocket hunting combo. Even then, grouping mechanics need some advancements before this really matters.

It just irked me that a Bard... a BARD! :no: couldn't use their songs for the group.



The only one that I would really care about on the list is 1018... and even then, if it's only restricted to the user, that's no big deal.

Restricted completely. You have to buy a spell pass to cast this spell, and that spell pass will only last 15 minutes.



1011 and 1016 restrictions kind of hurt, but they're incredibly niche in applicable situations. If you're playing a F2P, by the time you're actually of level to consistently run any of those restricted spells, or be in a hunting ground that you wouldn't be able to manage without them, while taking into account the necessary mana and mana costs associated in addition to keeping 1003, 1006, 1007, 1010, 1014, 1019 up, you'll be over level 60, and it'll be at least the year 2020.

The F2P bard I was playing had only gotten to level 21. I was keeping 1003, 1007, 1010, 1019 active. I didn't bother with sonic weapons because well... mana, and I could wear 4x gear that was sufficient as F2P. I also wanted to use 1005 frequently, so mana was important. However, I couldn't rescue very well because I couldn't use 1011 at all. Hunting swarms seemed out of the question since the crowd control utility was restricted or limited.

It was rough. Not being able to rest with 1018 up made it harder to keep from frying my nerves too, which is why I gave up on 1012 and 1014. Had to abandon the bard. F2P was too restrictive. Paladin, Monk, Cleric, and Empath worked pretty well though!

Also, I think you can use 1640 as a F2P Paladin. I'm pretty sure it just has the same restrictions as 318. It's the whole FIFO queue of players that stores a list of 10 and will only allow the same name to appear twice in the list. At least that's how I understood the Resurrection abilities in F2P to function (that's how it worked for my F2P cleric).

[JackWhisper]

I thought clerics had to have a pass to raise?

[SHAFT]

Anything but a monk. I'd roll ranger if it were me. I like bows a lot, so the appeal of pewpewing from hidden really reaches out to me.

[JackWhisper]

Now you all have me looking at paladin more. Is the profession too similar to my warrior though ? bard and ranger can go pure later if I wanted too. The paladin seems like fun but I want to have a choice of a different hunting style than my warrior.

Paladins can do anything style-wise. If you want to be a pure, you need to be at least level 45 with proper training. I won't lie, it's rough. I did it from 51-54, then went to weapons. Casting is a big big thing for good postcap paladins.

As for being like a warrior, I'll have to disappoint you and say there are striking similarities. Paladins are warriors with better swings, better spells, no berserk and they can raise.

[Maerit]

I thought clerics had to have a pass to raise?

Negative:


Resurrection

The last 10 players raised are kept track of. Each time a new person is raised, the oldest name on the list is bumped off. A single player can only appear 2 times on the list. A pass removes this restriction.

It's pretty easy to be a rescue cleric as F2P with the above. This is how healing works also, but it can be harder to keep up with the healing restrictions (and also the touch .... wait 30 seconds .... hope they don't bleed to death thing).

They just want to prevent bot healers and life-giving. Spread your spiritual powers around and such.

[Warriorbird]

Anything but Monk. I play a Warrior and they're all handy to have around.

[JackWhisper]

Hah, that's horseshit. so the Chrism nerf IS utter BS to screw over Paid players. Ah well.

[Whirlin]

It was rough. Not being able to rest with 1018 up made it harder to keep from frying my nerves too, which is why I gave up on 1012 and 1014. Had to abandon the bard. F2P was too restrictive. Paladin, Monk, Cleric, and Empath worked pretty well though!


At level 20, I don't think 1018 would really bridge the gap as much as you'd think. At level 74, the difference between 1018 and without 1018 is 11 mana a pulse on a node, while sitting at 233 max mana. A 5% increase in mana recovery on a node.

For simplicity's sake, lets say that my spellsongs last 10 minutes (I think they're closer to 8-9, but w/e). So that generates a total of 44 mana on node. Reduce that by the 18 mana to manually renew the song each cycle, and we're looking at a 26 mana over 8 minutes, or a little under 7 per pulse. And that's at 233 mana!

If we take someone with a 6 minute renewal cycle, and at level 20, you're sitting at about 60 mana... 5% increase from 60 mana would be 3 mana per pulse... So that's 9 mana at the cost of 18... unless you want to risk rolling it.

tl;dr... 1018 isn't effective til you're older either. At least in a node resting. It helps off a node... but even then, mana is TIGHT at those levels.

[compmenacer]

How is ranger for open archery ? I heard bard could possibly go open also. The different attack style would keep me from getting bored and has anyone ever done an archer paladin ?

[TheBastardOfStark]

open archery ranger is pretty decent...after you reach 40. Before then it can be a little tough as your AS won't be able to compete with other classes. I usually go oh?/board until 40+ then swap over to open archery with vine/thorn for knockdowns/crowd control.

[Tenlaar]

Archer bard is fun and effective. If you really want to do something different and that will help make money, archer bard locksmith is totally doable with a few sacrifices.

[Whirlin]

Bards probably have the most varieties of incredibly effective builds. Archer Bard is definitely possible. Tangent: When I was writing my guide, I was originally going to discount Archery as a viable build for Bards... but then upon reviewing the TP costs, and realizing that all of the benefits remained from everything (except sonic weapons), I found it to be an incredibly viable option.

Archer Ranger is among the strongest options for archery, due to the aiming additions of 613, STR bonus for RT reduction of 606, and the potential, repeatable AS boosts from 608.

Paladins... Swing a weapon.

[JackWhisper]

Bards probably have the most varieties of incredibly effective builds. Archer Bard is definitely possible. Tangent: When I was writing my guide, I was originally going to discount Archery as a viable build for Bards... but then upon reviewing the TP costs, and realizing that all of the benefits remained from everything (except sonic weapons), I found it to be an incredibly viable option.

Archer Ranger is among the strongest options for archery, due to the aiming additions of 613, STR bonus for RT reduction of 606, and the potential, repeatable AS boosts from 608.

Paladins... Swing a weapon.

Pallies swing weapons AWESOMELY! And we CAN cast.... it's just not that WTFSpiffy, to be honest. It can be, I mean I've hunted OTF as a castadin in brig and aug chain with zero problems. I just don't like to cast because I have weapon competence.

Stop giving superb details on the other two classes if you can't be nice to paladins! :lol:

[compmenacer]

What would be amazing is some sort of sonic quiver that produces sonic air flaring arrows or a sonic bow with arrows.

[SHAFT]

What would be amazing is some sort of sonic quiver that produces sonic air flaring arrows or a sonic bow with arrows.

Yes, and let it cost 500 million silvers!

[compmenacer]

I am talking singing sonic weapon so it would be free!

[mgoddess]

I'm actually kind of surprised that 1012 doesn't have a ranged/missile option, since 1025 can be sung up as a ranged weapon.

[Androidpk]

If bards could sing up a sonic bow weapon I'm sure the amount of complaining would be deafening.

[SHAFT]

If bards could sing up a sonic bow weapon I'm sure the amount of complaining would be deafening.

I would go ballistic. I'd hack into GS and replicate myself like agent smith and I'd destroy you all. Starting with Hoy.

[Cereal Killer]

They used to be able to hurl their sonic weapons and renew them back into their hands for like 1 mana. That was nerfed so hard that they have to put away their sonic shield rather than their sonic weapon to pick things up since the latter disappears once it leaves their hands.

[Androidpk]

I would go ballistic. I'd hack into GS and replicate myself like agent smith and I'd destroy you all. Starting with Hoy.

You could try but Noriyaki would return and become the One.

[Vusit]

Sonic arrows sound pretty badass.