OHB/Board Training Advice

[RaceCondition]

Looking for advice going forward with my level 67 human paladin. I group constantly, hence the Side by Side. I am a little lost on where to go between CM, MoC, and lores. What would you do from here?



Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 250 150
Shield Use.........................| 238 138
Combat Maneuvers...................| 175 75
Blunt Weapons......................| 236 136
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 130 35
Physical Fitness...................| 238 138
Harness Power......................| 166 66
Spirit Mana Control................| 90 20
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 136 38
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 145 45
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 50 10
Perception.........................| 114 28
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 90 20

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 7

Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 40




Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 2
Specialization I wspec1 3
Side by Side sidebyside 3
Surge of Strength surge 3

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 3
Unlearning Combat Maneuver Training Points: 11




Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Tower Shield Focus tfocus 4
Prop Up prop 3
Block the Elements eblock 3
Spell Block spellblock 2
Protective Wall pwall 2

Available Shield Training Points: 10

[neimanz1]

cms!

[Wesley]

Yep. CMs. You could also start adding dodge ranks as you can. It's not going to help a lot, especially with a tower shield, but it does add up over time.

[Jeril]

I don't quite understand why you have 3 ranks of block the elements and 2 ranks of spell block, are bolt and ball spells really that much of an issue for you? Seems like with a shield they shouldn't be. With you being grouped all the time I'd say either dodge, or more combat maneuvers if you feel like your AS is lacking. Maybe more MoC if you don't get enough open strikes for your tastes. You are above 1x in lores so I wouldn't touch them except to lower them if they aren't at any particular threshold at the moment.

[RaceCondition]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. Seems like dodge or CM is the way to go.

Jeril, 3 ranks of block the elements and 2 ranks of spell block came down to occasionally being hit by those spells and figuring I could do something about it. Also, I didn't see a real need for any of the other shield maneuvers. I could reallocate those points if I knew of better options.

[JackWhisper]

buy a better enchant shield. solves all problems.

[MrMortimur]

CM for more CMans you can learn and of course MOAR AS, 55 MOC is fun but might be overkill depending who and how often you group. Dodge can stay at 0x until cap without an issue. Lores are great but you having more than 1x is pretty spendy.

You might need more climb or swim depending on where you intend to hunt in the next 33 levels but as you unconvert from lores/armor you'll be able to catch up quickly when needed.

[Jeril]

This might be useful about shield skills: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?90086-shield-skills-and-Dark-Elves

[RaceCondition]

This might be useful about shield skills: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?90086-shield-skills-and-Dark-Elves

I suppose I could get sbash or scharge. Or shield mind? Honestly, I am not sure how useful any of those would be given the way I hunt.

I don't think any of the below would be useful based on your review:

Shield Push (push)
Shielded Brawler (brawler)
Shield Forward (forward)
Shield Spike Focus (spikefocus)
Shield Spike Mastery (spikemastery)
Shield Strike (strike)
Shield Strike Mastery (strikemastery)
Steely Resolve (resolve)
Phalanx (phalanx)

[time4fun]

I suppose I could get sbash or scharge. Or shield mind? Honestly, I am not sure how useful any of those would be given the way I hunt.

I don't think any of the below would be useful based on your review:

Shield Push (push)
Shielded Brawler (brawler)
Shield Forward (forward)
Shield Spike Focus (spikefocus)
Shield Spike Mastery (spikemastery)
Shield Strike (strike)
Shield Strike Mastery (strikemastery)
Steely Resolve (resolve)
Phalanx (phalanx)

This is super late, but as the other OHB-using Paladin (not many of us around, I gather), I'll say that sbash is a damn handy skill to have. Though personally, I use my CMAN for Feint and SBash to free up my shield points for the shield skills.

I'd say that where you go next is really a function of how you hunt (and with what). If you're a mace person, then more cmans for open ambush probably makes sense. But if your role in the group is typically to knock everything on its ass right away, then getting to the next MOC threshold may be your best bet. I see a lot of people suggesting dodge, but if you're using a tower shield then I don't know that I'd make that a priority. Dodge is VERY expensive for Paladins, and the tower shield really limits its impact at the lower rank levels.

Out of curiosity- what drove your lore allocation decisions? Are you tanking religion for the 1617 DS loss mitigation? What about blessings- what're you trying to prop up with that? I don't mean that as a criticism at all- I'm genuinely curious since I went such a different route.

[RaceCondition]

I swing a star and use a tower shield. I hunt with a wizard and have haste up constantly, so no real offensive problems even though all I do is swing unaimed.

My investment into lores generally was mainly motivated by an excess of MTPs and dearth of PTPs. I went blessing for increases 1607 and 1609, which I use most of the time. Religion was for when I move to using 1617.

[Wesley]

Disregard. I'm dumb

[time4fun]

Makes sense. I personally don't use blessing lore (though I think that makes me weird). Instead, I got enough religion for a second 1640 and to make 1615/1630 effective. Otherwise, I tank summoning largely for the 1605 bonus.

At your level and CM, you should be able to aim just fine, BTW. Especially if you have knocked them over and/or stunned them.

As far as shield skills go, I would definitely look into more offensive shield skills. Particularly shield bash and shield strike. The latter is particularly effective if your shield accepts 1604 or has its own inherent flares. My primary shield has grapple flares, and it makes a difference. If you want to do one better, get spikes too and go for spike shield mastery. If your shield has l accepts 1604, then you have a triple flaring shield. And the defensive spike flares go very well with 1609.

For cmans, I would make sure you have at least one or two ranks of feint. It will save your life when a casting creature feels like turtling.

What kind of star are you using, out of curiosity?

[RaceCondition]

The shield and star are just 10x T5. The shield has Grobey scripts, but nothing functional.

I haven't run into issues with turtled casters yet, but I will keep feint in mind.

[time4fun]

The shield and star are just 10x T5. The shield has Grobey scripts, but nothing functional.

I haven't run into issues with turtled casters yet, but I will keep feint in mind.

Part of this may be that you have a wizard who can call wind (and if that's going to be a constant thing, then feint really isn't much of an issue for you)

But barring that- feint is really an important tool in fighting casters. Being able to put them into RT once they prep something can be a life saver.

[Nairdin]

Both training more cman and dodging for this build are bad advice. you just don't have the TP's as a paladin to train 2x cman like some other professions without sacrificing alot.
Train dodging? lol tower shield and heavy armor... what? 1 DS every 3 ranks? before you ever touch dodging as a (WAY post-cap) tower shield using paladin, you want 60 MoC/swimming/climbing, 202 pf, 65 blessings lore, and so many other goals. dodging is near the bottom of the list for this build.

train more MnS ranks. you'll increase your survivability ALOT getting to 120. especially when you hit spell-burst and self-spell areas.

as OHB paladin use a mace an control the variables, don't get more cman than you absolutely need till post-cap, 1x is fine. Paladin gets a pretty decent cman bonus from spells. 24-40 ranks ambush and open ambush the neck/head. high crit kill rate and easy to target consistently. The 24-40 ranks ambush are key to that strategy. Way more efficient than mstrike, but i'd keep that in your arsenal to stun the swarms when they run up on you or take care of those pesky golems and non-corporeal undead.

Hope this helps.

[Nairdin]

Oh yeah, and for fucks sake use 1614 before you ambush. It lowers DS and Evade/Block/Parry significantly. if you can catch the critter in a defensive stance and cast it that's even better because the way it works, if it takes off -15% from 400 DS, which is -60 DS, then the critter changes to stance offensive either by choice or by you feinting it, the DS loss doesn't change to 15% of the current stance, it stays at -60. so the higher the DS aat the time 1614 is cast, the higher the DS lost.
But as a paladin AS/DS isn't the real problem. it's E/B/P. the advantage you get lowering critters E/B/P with 1614 is simply amazing. if you don't use it now, start. you'll see what i mean.

[Shaps]

Lot of people wrote stuff, guess I'll throw in my 2 cents. Things marked complete is what I'd just hold off on till much later 90+ or even post-cap, so benchmarks are:

2x Shield, OHB, PF - keep doing
1x HP, Perception, CM- keep doing
150 ranks armor - complete - FP
55 ranks of MOC - complete - 3 focused Mstrike
40 ranks of Ambush - complete - Enough to aim reliably, before diminishing returns
40 ranks Climb/Swim - complete - Get you almost everywhere with Sigil of Resolve
40 ranks of Paladin Spells - complete - Definitely don't need higher
20 ranks of MnS Spells - complete - 120 is a great spell for you and the group + all the others
30 ranks of SMC - complete - Extra Mana per pulse + share + rezz ability
40 ranks of MIU - complete - Spell Burst + Statues
40 ranks of Scroll reading - complete - Spell Burst + scroll usage

Lores: Do what you want, but I like 40 Summoning (great break point and self-teleport if dead); 55 ranks Religion (great break point and +40/-20 on Zealot); 105 Blessings (great utility of course and good break point) - You are well over 1x in Lores, so you could back it off and push those points to reach locked in points for all the above.

Point being for skills.. if you finish off training in them at certain points like above, you can ignore them for the next 30+ trains and just use all your left over points for what you want.. and really all you would need extra is CM and lores (if want more), but you'd be set for everything else till 95+.

CMAN list I go mainly defensive:
5x WSPEC - complete - +10 to all abilities
5x Cdefense - complete - +15 to all abilities
Then is up to you.. I tend to go with a mix and match of the following: 3xFeint / 3xCharge / 3xBullrush / 3xDisarm / 3x Surge - and if a lighter health race.. I always try to fit in Toughness for the added health (is a lifesaver). You like Sidebyside so adjust as you want.

With the full 5x WSPEC and Cdefense + our spells you are effectively 4x/5x+ in all of the rest for defensive/offensive purposes.

Shield CMANS:
Again I mainly go for Defense, but like one disabler - so:
5xTFOCUS - complete - (or whatever shield size you want)
5xBash - complete - My one solid disabler + defense against it
3xEblock - complete - Must have (never die to those hit for 1 point - 20 point flare to the eye deaths again)
2xPwall - complete - Must have
Then really whatever you want - I like 3xProp and 3xCharge myself for the added defense. But I switch around as needed depending on mood/hunting area.

[Shaps]

And if I was your train.. for lores I'd probably do 40 Summoning (done for life); then 25 Religion (for the kneel at least) - so that's 1x/train to your current level. Then whatever you wanted.

But as I like just getting things trained and done.. I'd probably just go with dumping extra MPs into Religion to get to 55 as fast as I could.. then from that point on I'm just left pushing Blessing lores.