Returning sorc

[Drew]

I'm trying to help out a returning sorc, I'm not totally familar with sorcs since GS4 though so if someone could help me out here I'd be appreciated.

His CS seems a bit low
gestures at an elder tree spirit.
CS: +131 - TD: +115 + CvA: +25 + d100: +73 == +114
Warding failed!
A dull grey beam snakes out toward the tree spirit!
... 29 points of damage!
... 1 point of damage!
A weak tap grazes the left ankle.
Feeling nervous yet?
... 4 points of damage!
Various bits of the tree spirit melt away!




(Level 28):

Skill Name | Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 10 2
Physical Fitness...................| 111 27
Arcane Symbols.....................| 114 28
Magic Item Use.....................| 114 28
Spell Aiming.......................| 158 58
Harness Power......................| 117 29
Elemental Mana Control.............| 99 23
Spirit Mana Control................| 99 23
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 96 22
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 96 22
Perception.........................| 102 24
Climbing...........................| 86 19
Swimming...........................| 66 14

Spell Circles:
Minor Elemental....................| 20
Minor Spirit.......................| 14
Sorcerer...........................| 29

[Edaarin]

The hell do you need all that climb/swim for at level 28?

[Numbers]

What's his race, aura, and wisdom?

To get it out of the way?

- Arkans

[Syberus]

5 more spells and you get 425.. + 13 CS from that.

[Drew]

Live in Icemule, you need about 20 climb by 30-35, the swim isn't needed I told him to drop some.

He's a giant, Aura 59, Wisdom 76, which seem pretty damn low, but I'm not expert. He's in his 30 day period so he can change that.

Should he be more than singled in sorc spells?

[Numbers]

He's a giant, Aura 59, Wisdom 76, which seem pretty damn low, but I'm not expert. He's in his 30 day period so he can change that.

There's the reason why his CS sucks.

[kheldarin]

Originally posted by Syberus
5 more spells and you get 425.. + 13 CS from that.

How does that work?

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Arkans
To get it out of the way?

- Arkans


you dont need any swim and only 5 ranks of climb till you can hunt rift or OTF.

unless you do alot with demons I would only train in lores when it costs less to get ranks in a lore than in other magic skills

I would also drop perception completely

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Drew

Should he be more than singled in sorc spells?

I would stay 10 over single

[kheldarin]

At level 24:

You gesture at a stone troll.
CS: +136 - TD: +80 +CvA: +20 + d100: +87 == +163
Warding failed!
... and hits for 29 points of damage!
A stone troll is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
The heat wafts over the stone troll with little effect.
The intense cold contacts the stone troll's hot skin with a sharp hiss!
... 15 points of damage!
Light shock to chest. That stings!
... 60 points of damage!
Blow to chest frees a rib to spear a lung and heart!
The stone troll is stunned!
You feel 3 mana surge into you!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
>
The stone troll cries out in agony as her skin shatters!
... 20 points of damage!
Light strike to abdomen.
... 15 points of damage!
Strike glances off the chest.

U2U me if you're interested in his training plans.

[jfields]

I'm the player of the returning sorc in question. I have appreciated the great help Drew gave me, including the link to this forum to take him out of the middle.

As he said, I'm returning to the lands. A lot has changed. When this character was made, the conventional guidance was to train in a lot of things that now seem to be unecessary. I've been whittling away at them and redirecting the training points, but perhaps I still have more to go.

Used to be that perception was a 1x skill, that effected lots of various things. Some of the guides I've read recently generally say the same thing. Inaccurate?

As to the swim/climb, I've backed them both down a hair, (swim dropped more than climb). While I like Icemule, I'm much more of a traveler. When the charcter was brought back, imagine my surprise when my House no longer existed in its original form, and is in River's Rest. Anyway, I want to have enough swim/climb to go most places, but I dropped them some as a concession to practicality for now.

As to stats, I used the optimizer. I've since been told that with the changes to everything, it really isn't that important to shoot for such long term goals. So I'm willing to make a run through the Inn to make them a compromise. I don't want to shift them so much that I waste stat growth for a large number of trainings, but would like to have a better short-term CS than I have now. What would you all suggest as a happy medium?

Thanks for all the suggestions and help!

[Drew]

To be honest, stat growth is for chumps. Maxing your stats early can give you something like 200 or 300 more TP's total at cap. That's a whole hell of a lot of TP's, worth more to me than having my influence be 100.

Keep in mind that for a sorcerer, aura and wisdom are prime stats. That means they count for double TPs compared to any other stats for a sorc. This is a new twist in GS4, it used to be aura and disc for every character in GS3. If you up just those two stats you'll improve your CS by a large amount and you'll give yourself more TPs to work with, allowing you to get some of those skills that you want to pick up.

[Numbers]

If you have Excel, go to tsoran.com and download the GS4 trainer spreadsheet. Input your race and all your stats, and it'll show them how they grow.

Essentially, though, in a nutshell, aura and wisdom are the most important stats for a Sorcerer. Yours are dismally low. You're going to want to boost them, a lot. Keep in mind, though, that as primary stats, they grow very very quickly, so if you're going for long-term growth, you can set them somewhat low (high-70's, mid-80's) and they should reach 100 eventually. Tsoran's spreadsheet will let you know exactly when. By setting them to a medium amount, you'll be able to assign higher rolls to other stats that don't grow as quickly. If you don't care about long-term growth, and just want the uber-power now, set them high. Again, use Tsoran's spreadsheet to determine all of this.

As for skills, you seem to be off to a good start. Perception is an iffy decision. Some people live by it. As a Sorcerer, I find it worthless. I've yet to come across an area that requires searching out a path or an opening that I haven't been able to get through. I don't care about people hiding around me. And I don't care about thieves, since I deposit my coins and close my containers and always carry at least 5 worthless, cursed gems on me. And if the mood strikes me, I summon a demon to guard my pockets.

As for the rest, you can probably drop your physical training a bit... give it just enough to reach your maximum HP, and leave it at that. As has been suggested, lower your climbing and swimming a bit... those skills won't be required of you for a while. Eventually, though, you'll want around 25 ranks in each, maybe more... but don't feel rushed to get'em. Squeeze them in when you can. Depending on what type of armor you're wearing, you'll want to train off the hinderance, so you may want to add a couple of armor ranks in order to do so. I'd suggest boosting your Spell Aim to full 2x, and boosting your mana controls to full 2x. Keep AS and MIU to 1x (unless you plan to make a LOT of use from Scroll Infusion, in which case you may want to add more to them, but 1x in both should suffice... it does for me.)

As for the lores, that's where it becomes a personal decision. These are the spells the lores have an impact on.

Necromancy:
Blood bust - Will return blood to you. Very valuable.
Limb disruption - Will animate some severed limbs, causing knockdowns on other creatures. Fairly worthless.
Pain infliction - Increases health damage.
Disease - Necromancy hasn't been added to this spell yet, but it will be.
Animate Dead - Lets you kill something, use prepared materials on it, and then animate it and command it to fight for you, giving you access to all of its abilities (including maneuvers.)

Demonology:
Cloak of Shadows - Determines the chance of success in the cloak successfully activating.
Torment - Lets you have more running at the same time.
Minor Summoning - Determines the chance of success when using a summoning stone.
Major Summoning - Unimplemented.

Most Sorcerers seem to 1x in Lores. Some specializing in one, some switching off each training in order to be .5x in each. Personally, I 2x lore, and I'm 1x in each. However, by doing that, I'm only 1.5x in Harness Power, so my mana supply isn't as large as someone who 2x's in it, but I've yet to encounter any major mana issues (and I'm a Voln Sorcerer, so that's saying a lot.) The decision as to how you train your lores is up to you.

As for spell training, always double it, and always gain a rank in the Sorc circle. What path you take in the minors is up to you. If you have the points to spare, go ahead and add in a third rank here and there.

[Edited on 10-18-2004 by 3704558]

[jfields]

I'm still research what I want to adjust my stats to, since that is a limited thing, but how does this look for the skills:

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 15 3
Physical Fitness...................| 99 23
Arcane Symbols.....................| 114 28
Magic Item Use.....................| 114 28
Spell Aiming.......................| 158 58
Harness Power......................| 130 35
Elemental Mana Control.............| 117 29
Spirit Mana Control................| 117 29
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 96 22
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 96 22
Perception.........................| 50 10
Climbing...........................| 82 18
Swimming...........................| 58 12

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 23

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 11

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 29

[Trinitis]

I'm just going to post Adredrin's stat base and his skills.


Name: Adredrin Derahk Race: Dark Elf Profession: Sorcerer (shown as: Demonmaster)
Gender: Male Age: 232 Expr: 4209498 Level: 67
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 79 (14) ... 79 (14)
Constitution (CON): 67 (3) ... 67 (3)
Dexterity (DEX): 87 (28) ... 87 (28)
Agility (AGI): 76 (18) ... 76 (18)
Discipline (DIS): 99 (14) ... 99 (14)
Aura (AUR): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Logic (LOG): 94 (22) ... 94 (22)
Intuition (INT): 81 (20) ... 81 (20)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Influence (INF): 81 (10) ... 81 (10)



Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Arcane Symbols.....................| 169 69
Magic Item Use.....................| 169 69
Spell Aiming.......................| 238 138
Harness Power......................| 238 138
Elemental Mana Control.............| 169 69
Spirit Mana Control................| 169 69
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 150 50
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 86 19
Perception.........................| 169 69
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 50

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 35

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 69

[jfields]

For what it's worth, I just found a use for perception. Since I lowered it, I can't reliably find the chute in Icemule zombies. If that is indicative of how it works, I'll probably end up raising it back up.

[Drew]

Originally posted by jfields
For what it's worth, I just found a use for perception. Since I lowered it, I can't reliably find the chute in Icemule zombies. If that is indicative of how it works, I'll probably end up raising it back up.


Just keep doing it every other level. Most areas with a perception check have a way around, for instance, the area with the chute, just go two south, go window, go door, and you are in the basement, you can go through the chute one way without searching.

Also, your skills are looking much better.

[Ivex]

How high in the spirit circle do you suggest you train in? Enough for Spirit Guide? Is more a waste?

Also, is 50 extra ranks in MnE the max for barrier/targetting?

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Ivex
How high in the spirit circle do you suggest you train in? Enough for Spirit Guide? Is more a waste?

Also, is 50 extra ranks in MnE the max for barrier/targetting?

With the changes to GS4, your going to want to get 50-75 ranks in elemental, then dump the rest into spirit. You want spirit to be equal to your level asap (anything over your level is a waste).

This way you get the full bonus from 102 and 120, which neither cap. 425 and 430 do cap.

[Deathravin]

What about 700's? This should always be your level too, ya? for 712 max benefit, and CS benefits

[Ivex]

That's pretty tough to do, 1x in MnS and Sorcerer, and try to keep MnE ranks up? Right now I am trying to get max benefit from 425/430 and keeping my Sorc CS decent by being 1x'd in it.

Maybe one level you train in MnE and Sorc, and the next level you do all three, and do that over and over? How far of a bonus is the max for Alkars and Spirit Barrier?

[Drew]

Originally posted by Ivex
How far of a bonus is the max for Alkars and Spirit Barrier?


These aren't nice round numbers (I was figuring them out for a ranger plan) but they should give you a fair idea

23 MnS ranks:
102 = 20 + 11 For a total of: 31
120 = 15 + 1 For a total of: 16


45 MnS ranks:
102 = 20 + 22 For a total of: 42
120 = 15 + 22 For a total of: 37


80 MnS ranks
102 = 20 + 38 For a total of: 58
120 = 15 + 30 For a total of: 45


100 MnS ranks
102 = 20 + 48 For a total of: 68
120 = 15 + 40 for a total of: 55



So, yes, MnS has benefits all the way up to the 100th rank for a sorc. Plus you'll be really good at WEBBING! The CS spells aren't worth much (unbalance is a great dueling tool if you've got a good MnS CS however)

[Edited on 10-19-2004 by Drew]

[Trinitis]

Personally, since I'm aiming for cap, its not much of an issue for me. I've done the math before, and 50 ranks of Minor Elemental is where I'm stopping. The 6 or so CS you get for pushing that to 75 ranks is not worth it to me. I'd rather put those ranks in Sorcerer for the CS boosts.

On the other hand, if your aiming to max your DS, you could always do 100 ranks in each circle. ::shrug:: This is based on reaching level 100 though :)

[jfields]

How do these look for revised base stats? I haven't applied them yet, because I'm looking for feedback. I was aiming for a compromise between maxing everything at 100 and having an abominable CS now.

STR 75
CON 60
DEX 75
AGL 83
DIS 40
AUR P,M 77
LOG 60
INT 70
WIS S,M 75
INF 45

Trainings:

At level 28: Ranks
Armor Use 3
Physical Fitness 20
Climbing 18
Swimming 12
Perception 18
Arcane Symbols 28
Magic Item Use 28
Harness Power 35
Spell Aiming 58
Elemental Mana Control 29
Spirit Mana Control 29
Spell Research 63
Minor Elemental 23
Minor Spirit 11
Sorcerer 29
Sorcerous Lore 44
Demonology 22
Necromancy 22


Plugging all that into Tsoran's training spreadsheet bumped my 28th level CS up to 139. Does that seem right? A gain of 9?

Ideas? Suggestions?

Thanks!

[jfields]

One last try:

Any reason this isn't a good set to stick with?



Modified
Stats
Level 0

STR 80
CON 61
DEX 70
AGL 85
DIS 40
AUR 82
LOG 60
INT 70
WIS 82
INF 30

[Edited on 10-26-2004 by jfields]

[Drew]

Looks much better to me