Someone experienced give this a once over, please?

[Frimpleton]

Hi all. I'm just back after a long break, and I've been digging through the wiki and various posts here to get my training plan all squared away. I've got it all set and such through the spreadsheet and all, but I was hoping since you guys are more up to date, you'd be more prone to seeing any huge gaping weaknesses that I might have missed. I'd appreciate if ya could take a look and let me know if there's anything big I'm going to screw myself with before my 30 day grace period is up. Thanks in advance. I put notes in different colors to make it clear what my thinking was when I did certain things.

Frimpleton (at level 10), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 102 24 <---- Currently 2x, planning on letting it drop to 1.5x when I hit the point of diminishing returns for AS.
Armor Use..........................| 86 19 <--- Overtraining to rush to Brig. Will be letting it drop back down to flat 1x afterwards.
Combat Maneuvers...................| 58 12
Edged Weapons......................| 102 24
Ambush.............................| 102 24
Physical Fitness...................| 58 12 <--- This is where my spare PTP will be going after getting my points leveled out from the above two notes.
Dodging............................| 96 22
Disarming Traps....................| 102 24
Picking Locks......................| 102 24
Stalking and Hiding................| 102 24
Perception.........................| 102 24
Climbing...........................| 58 12
Trading............................| 58 12
Training Points: 0 Phy 3 Mnt (48 Mnt converted to Phy)
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

I have points allocated in my spreadsheet to get to 404 for picking by level 35-40 depending on my whims. I was planning on stopping after that and focusing on redux skills, extra CM, et cetera. I've read some things about ewave and such, but I figured that was something I could worry about at or near cap rather than early on. I'm sort of trying to optimize for level 50 and then I'll re-assess.

On that note, stats:

Stats: Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 80 (15) ... 80 (15)
Constitution (CON): 63 (6) ... 61 (5)
Dexterity (DEX): 84 (22) ... 84 (22)
Agility (AGL): 75 (22) ... 75 (22)
Discipline (DIS): 87 (13) ... 87 (13)
Aura (AUR): 87 (18) ... 87 (18)
Logic (LOG): 92 (21) ... 92 (21)
Intuition (INT): 35 (-7) ... 35 (-7)
Wisdom (WIS): 71 (10) ... 71 (10)
Influence (INF): 30 (-5) ... 30 (-5)

All I really attempted here was to strike a balance between the PTP/MTP I needed, and having my "core" stats start hitting 100s around level 50, as I was trying to optimize for that right now. Figured I could fix the stats later if and when I reach higher levels. I realize that the Intuition bonus (or lack thereof) hurts my disarming, and various other things. I set it low because it grows quickly and will hit a 0 bonus I believe at level 23. Maybe around 30. I am hoping to get by on breaking even there, so I could pump more points into stats that grow slower. That thing in particular is my most concerning bit that I feel I might have missed something critical.


I appreciate any pointers or things I may have missed out in my training here. If there's some huge lapse that I've not considered, if anyone will see it, it's you guys. Thank ya again.

[Tgo01]

Doubling in perception might be a bit overkill, you could single in that and do just fine so that should save you some points for other things.

[Frimpleton]

Ah, really? Thought it was going to be necessary to 2x with my picking and disarming. Thank you. Given my low intuition (and hindrance in finding traps), is it something I should wait until a certain number of ranks to drop down to 1x, or should I just drop it down immediately?

[Tgo01]

For picking your own boxes you should be fine with 2x disarm and 1x perception, you could probably get away with lowering it immediately.

Also where do you hunt? If you hunt like Icemule for instance you could get away with just 30 ranks of climbing and 0 ranks of swimming until almost level 60, that could save you some points in swimming and climbing for a while. Of course this depends on where you plan to hunt.

[Astray]

Drop perception to 1x and Climbing/Swimming keep at level or bring them up according to how many left over points you have.

I think it's 30 trains in all to climb/swim around any obstacle in the game.

[Frimpleton]

Ooh right I completely forgot about the swimming. Yeah I took that down temporarily so I could get into Brig instead of doubles now that I can wear 4x without RT adders. That's also 1x, and I had planned on stopping both at 30 ranks in favor of extra CM and Physical Fitness. I am dropping the perception down too for sure. Thankya!

[Tgo01]

Also, this is purely anecdotal of course, but I think you make more silvers by training in first aid or survival instead of singling in trading. 1x in trading, especially at really low levels, provides a very minor boost to the value of stuff, whereas with skinning you're going to be able to skin shit so that's a 100% profit margin where right, even a 10 silver skin is worth 10 more silvers than no skin at all.

Of course if you plan to hunt things that never have any skins this is all moot but most critters are skinnable.

[Frimpleton]

I started out having 1x in both first aid and survival, then took them down to zero trying to save points for spells and overtrain my armor. I had intended to start getting them again after I got 404, but you make a solid point there. I'm gonna bump those back up again before my 30 days is up. Probably as soon as I start getting points back from overtraining to 30 ranks for brig. Thanks again! Great info.

[Tgo01]

I'm just saying I'd grab first aid or survival over trading, you don't need all three, although it doesn't hurt to have all 3 if you want to make some silvers.

Just keep in mind you're always gonna be hurting for points if you train in picking and disarm, even as a rogue.

[Astray]

Survival is alright for picking herbs and skinning, first aid if you want to bandage injuries well and reduce the associated RT.

I think first aid plays a part in skinning as well. Trading is pretty useless unless you're balls deep in the Elven Nations and don't want to get gouged.

[Tgo01]

First aid and survival are equal in terms of skinning.

I always prefer survival over first aid now because not slipping on the Icemule trail or from Icemule to the Rift is sexy.

[Drektor]

I think you should 2x dodge.

[Candor]

I think it's 30 trains in all to climb/swim around any obstacle in the game.

Climbing: Climbing to the mino area near the Landing can be done with 30 trainings, but you'll get injured sometimes. Beyond that, I think 30 ranks works anywhere. To avoid problems with the mino climb, I suggest 40 ranks. But you aren't likely to hunt this area until you are at least 60 trainings, maybe more.

Swimming: Ignoring the Temple on Teras and the OTF swim, I think 20 ranks in swimming works anywhere. The Temple (which is a high level hunting area) requires at least 50 swimming ranks, and that's bare bones - many players would recommend 70 ranks. But again, this is a high level area and not something to worry about early in your career. As for OTF, that's also a high level area, and I think you should have 40 ranks for the swim. But again, this isn't a current issue for you.

Bottom line: I think 30 ranks in climbing and 20 ranks in swimming is what you should do for now.

[Jeril]

Why rush to brig armor? I like being 1x in FA, survival, and trading across the board but it isn't something I do with all my characters either. And if you train in trading you can stop at a break point and leave it unlike FA/survival for skinning. I'd say you want at least 30 ranks of perception but after that you can likely let it drop down to 1x. I also notice no AS, you are going to want 10 ranks if you want to disarm your own scarabs at a low level.

[Frimpleton]

Thank you all very much. All good points. I've altered my training plan according to your advice, and according to my spreadsheet, below is where I should stand at level 50. Training all of the below, I'll have a leftover 83PTP and 51MTP, which unless I've missed something (Some magic item use maybe?) will be going into extra Combat Maneuvers.


Armor Use- 51 Ranks (1x)
Edged Weapons - 102 Ranks (2x)
Two Weapon Combat - 76 Ranks (1.5x)
Combat Maneuvers - 51 Ranks (1x)
Multi-Opponent - 5 ranks
Ambush - 102 Ranks (2x)
Dodging - 102 Ranks (2x)
Physical Fitness - 86 Ranks (1.7x)
Climbing - 30 Ranks
Swimming - 20 Ranks
Disarm - 102 Ranks (2x)
Picking - 102 Ranks (2x)
Perception - 51 Ranks (1x)
First Aid - 51 Ranks (1x)
Trading - 51 Ranks (1x)
Survival - 51 Ranks (1x)
Arcane Symbols 10 Ranks
Minor Elemental Circle - 4 Ranks

Stats at 50 (Bonuses in Parenthesis)

STR 93 (21)
CON 76 (13)
DEX 97 (28)
AGI 95 (32)
DIS 96 (18)
AUR 94 (22)
LOG 100 (25)
INT 63 (6)
WIS 77 (13)
INF 51 (5)

Any last things that seem like glaring deficiencies? Is there a set magic number of magic item use that'll let me use most enhancive items? I was gone before enhancives were really a big thing, so I'm fairly unfamiliar with them on the whole. Thank ya all very much for all your help.

[Jeril]

Thank you all very much. All good points. I've altered my training plan according to your advice, and according to my spreadsheet, below is where I should stand at level 50. Training all of the below, I'll have a leftover 83PTP and 51MTP, which unless I've missed something (Some magic item use maybe?) will be going into extra Combat Maneuvers.


Armor Use- 51 Ranks (1x)
Edged Weapons - 102 Ranks (2x)
Two Weapon Combat - 76 Ranks (1.5x)
Combat Maneuvers - 51 Ranks (1x)
Multi-Opponent - 5 ranks
Ambush - 102 Ranks (2x)
Dodging - 102 Ranks (2x)
Physical Fitness - 86 Ranks (1.7x)
Climbing - 30 Ranks
Swimming - 20 Ranks
Disarm - 102 Ranks (2x)
Picking - 102 Ranks (2x)
Perception - 51 Ranks (1x)
First Aid - 51 Ranks (1x)
Trading - 51 Ranks (1x)
Survival - 51 Ranks (1x)
Arcane Symbols 10 Ranks
Minor Elemental Circle - 4 Ranks

Stats at 50 (Bonuses in Parenthesis)

STR 93 (21)
CON 76 (13)
DEX 97 (28)
AGI 95 (32)
DIS 96 (18)
AUR 94 (22)
LOG 100 (25)
INT 63 (6)
WIS 77 (13)
INF 51 (5)

Any last things that seem like glaring deficiencies? Is there a set magic number of magic item use that'll let me use most enhancive items? I was gone before enhancives were really a big thing, so I'm fairly unfamiliar with them on the whole. Thank ya all very much for all your help.

You don't need MIU to use enhancives, you just need to be able to wear them and be the right level to get their benefit. You may want MIU for haste imbeds, or strength, or whatever. Mostly optional though, also no need to make a plan for those spare points until you get them. And of course with fixskills you can always change your mind later.

[Frimpleton]

Perfect. Thanks again. Think that covers everything. I can breath easier now when my 30 days is up. I appreciate it guys.

[Tgo01]

Don't forget you also get a free fixskills after your 30 days are up so there's always that.

Your stats are forever though unless you buy a fixstat potion. I'm a firm believer in setting your stats up to have them maxed by cap but you seem to have already made up your mind in that regard :p

[Frimpleton]

Don't forget you also get a free fixskills after your 30 days are up so there's always that.

Your stats are forever though unless you buy a fixstat potion. I'm a firm believer in setting your stats up to have them maxed by cap but you seem to have already made up your mind in that regard :p

If you asked me ten years ago, I'd be right there with ya, but these days I'd rather just make it convenient for now, and then later I'll pony up for the fixstats potion. Haha.

[Iyvin]

Sorry to hijack your thread, Frimpleton, but I had a question about the suggested Perception training plan. My rogue was created as, and is currently played as a career picker before anything else. He has always tripled in pick/disarm/perception, and can obviously open boxes well above his own level (He's 25 and can pick close to level 50 creatures). Obviously overkill, but my main question is.. If one can single in perception and have no problem picking boxes their own level, should I be able to take my perception training down to 2x and still keep up with picking boxes well over my level? Or should I keep it tripled for that purpose? And he is not an archer, so don't need to keep it that high for aiming/AS or anything like that.

Thanks for any clarification!
~Rubi

[Jeril]

Sorry to hijack your thread, Frimpleton, but I had a question about the suggested Perception training plan. My rogue was created as, and is currently played as a career picker before anything else. He has always tripled in pick/disarm/perception, and can obviously open boxes well above his own level (He's 25 and can pick close to level 50 creatures). Obviously overkill, but my main question is.. If one can single in perception and have no problem picking boxes their own level, should I be able to take my perception training down to 2x and still keep up with picking boxes well over my level? Or should I keep it tripled for that purpose? And he is not an archer, so don't need to keep it that high for aiming/AS or anything like that.

Thanks for any clarification!
~Rubi

Gibs advice as a triple pick/disarm rogue is to get 50 ranks, then let that coast down to 1x as you level. If you were just doing your own boxes at 3x disarm you could likely skip by with 1x perception but with working so high above your level you want that extra cushion until you have more disarm under your belt.

[Astray]

I always wound up breaking picks when I singled in it. I guess that's why I said fuck it and chose to never pick on my Rogue.

[Frimpleton]

Take this information with a grain of salt, and I know for sure that it's not 100% accurate, but I'd imagine it's probably a fair indicator still:

With the training spreadsheet (which does not take INT into factor at all in determining what level trap one can see, which is how I know it's inaccurate to some degree), I was playing around with the numbers after people told me to drop to 1x perception. At level 1, it shows that I'll "Automatically" regardless of roll, it won't allow me to see any traps at all, but I'll be able to disarm a trap up to -30. At level 5, I'd be able to see a trap automatically that's -5, and disarm a trap that's -79. Doubling perception to this point brings that number about even, so I'll be able to see all the traps I'd be able to disarm rather than them exploding me.

What I found is that after a while, even with 1x perception, the level of trap you can SEE outpaces the level of trap you can disarm with 2x disarm. According to the spreadsheet, which again, is not 100% accurate and does not factor INT in at all, At level 22, I'll be able with 1x perception and 2x disarm, to SEE a trap automatically that's -169, and disarm a trap that's -170. From there, perception starts outpacing disarm, even still at 1x. Level 50, see a trap at -285, disarm a trap at -233 and the gap gets wider from there.

That definitely supports the idea of getting your perception up high to start, then letting it fall back down to 1x after a while. Since I'm going with 2x picking/disarm, I'm doing so at 30 perception ranks. If you're 3x, you'd best go with Jeril's 50 ranks. That seems about the point where your ability to see a trap would catch up to your ability to disarm it at 3x disarming.