Concerning the CMs and guild skills.

[Meos]

I know on the website it says the combining CMs with guild skills inceases their effectiveness.

I got a warrior who is 33, he has 31 ranks of tackle and 4 CM tackle ranks. Now I think he's a pretty good tackler. But I'm just wondering if anyone knows how much if any at all CM ranks in tackle will boost my tackle enough for it to be worth it? Seems to me if you had a 5 ranks in CM tackle and mastered tackle in the guild you might be a little too uber. So if anyones got some info on this subject, lets spill it.

Thanks.

[Latrinsorm]

Eh... I think what you're reading is supposed to say that training in Combat Maneuvers, the skill, enhances Guild maneuvers. It shouldn't say that training in the CML version of a guild maneuver enhances the guild maneuver, because they don't. 63 ranks in the guild is as proficient as you can get. Training in CMAN tackle through the CML wouldn't help you at all, although the ranks of CM that you got would help. Am I making sense?

[Bobmuhthol]

<<It shouldn't say that training in the CML version of a guild maneuver enhances the guild maneuver, because they don't.>>

WRONG!

[Meos]

So... I should drop the 4 tackle ranks and spill the points over into other CM skills is what your saying?

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Meos
So... I should drop the 4 tackle ranks and spill the points over into other CM skills is what your saying? Yes. Bob's wrong, or is working from information disclosed within the past 2 days.

[Bobmuhthol]

Or maybe an announcement from months ago.

Weapon Bonding is going to make any CMAN skill used with that particular weapon effectively enhanced.

And I know for a fact after begging on the boards for Grandmastery of two learned skills having combined effectiveness that this will not be happening according to GM ...

[Bobmuhthol]

I distinctly remember reading something that said training in the combat maneuver will help the guild skill, and masters of the skill will see the biggest improvement.

[Artha]

I think you misread, Bob.

[Bobmuhthol]

I think wtf.

As quoted by Cirakin on developer's corner of the official boards under Warrior Forum:

Currently, a master of a guild skill has two "ups" on a master of the same skill through CMAN. The first is a small bonus to his maneuver. The second is the ability to use those points towards an additional CMAN skill that is not available through the guild. With all the new skills being released, a warrior will never have enough CM points.

This was in response to a suggestion of cumulative benefits of learning both skills of the same order.

[Meos]

R>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>TACK MEOS
[Roll result: -499 (open d100: 17) Penalties: -10]
You hurl yourself at Meos, but you sail by and land in a heap on the ground.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
PR>
You feel fully energetic again.
P>stand
You stand back up.
>TACK MEOS
[Roll result: -438 (open d100: 78) Penalties: -10]
You hurl yourself at Meos, but you sail by and land in a heap on the ground.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
PR>
* Siara just bit the dust!
P>stand
You stand back up.
>TACK MEOS
[Roll result: -463 (open d100: 53) Penalties: -10]
You hurl yourself at Meos, but you sail by and land in a heap on the ground.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
PR>
You feel fully energetic again.
P>cman unlearn tackle
You have chosen to unlearn rank 4 of Tackle to regain 8 training points. If this is acceptable, please click here within the next 30 seconds to confirm your training choice. If it is not acceptable, please click here and try again.
P>unlearn confirm
You decide to unlearn your fourth rank of Tackle, regaining 8 Combat Maneuver Training Points.



Okay thats a difference of 516 every time.. now after losing all my ranks



>
Your Tackle has decreased to zero ranks. You can no longer use this skill.
Your available Combat Maneuver Training Points has just increased by 2 points, for a total of 20 points.
>tack meos
[Roll result: -466 (open d100: 50) Penalties: -10]
You hurl yourself at Meos, but you sail by and land in a heap on the ground.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
PR>
You feel fully energetic again.


Still a differnce of 516.

Conclusion, ranks of CM tackle don't help the guild skill. except lowering stamina cost, perhaps giving a hiden bonus to rolls?

[Bobmuhthol]

If anything, it raises the stamina cost. It goes up with ranks, not down.

They are not cumulative in any way whatsoever.

[Meos]

>cman help tackle
Skill Name: Tackle
Mnemonic: tackle
Hostile: Yes
Stamina Cost: Base 15 (-5 Rank 1, -5 Rank 2, -3 Rank 3).<~~ Bob look here.
Other Requirements: None
Available to: Warriors.
Prerequisites:
None
CMP Cost:
Rank 1: (Squares) 2
Rank 2: (Squares) 4
Rank 3: (Squares) 6
Rank 4: (Squares) 8
Rank 5: (Squares) 10
Description: Hurl yourself at a target and attempt to knock them down.

[Artha]

Stamina Cost: Base 15 (-5 Rank 1, -5 Rank 2, -3 Rank 3).<~~ Bob look here.

That means rank 1 and 2 cost 10, rank 3 costs 12, ranks 4 and 5 cost 15.

[Edited on 10-16-2004 by Artha]