Chris Borland retires after 1 year

[ZeP]

ParkBandit is a piece of shit racist whose daughter fucks other races while he videotapes.

So I'll go with my own thread.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/chris-borland-announces-retirement-at-age-24-due-to-concussion-fears-022911846.html (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/chris-borland-announces-retirement-at-age-24-due-to-concussion-fears-022911846.html)

[Parkbandit]

ParkBandit is a piece of shit racist whose daughter fucks other races while he videotapes.

So I'll go with my own thread.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/chris-borland-announces-retirement-at-age-24-due-to-concussion-fears-022911846.html (http://http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/chris-borland-announces-retirement-at-age-24-due-to-concussion-fears-022911846.html

lolwut?

Damn kid.. I suppose I should know you because I clearly upset you to the point you need to lash out.. but I honestly have no clue who you are. You've been here since 2008, but I don't remember anything significant about you.

I'll guess that you are a "special" little guy because you can't even manage to make a usable link.

[Keller]

I have a feeling ZeP has been concussed a time or two in his life.

[Tisket]

lol Keller

[subzero]

Niners are having a rough offseason it appears.

[Latrinsorm]

That escalated quickly.

[CaptContagious]

Isn't using the fact his daughter fucks other races as a derogatory in fact makes you a racist?

[Parkbandit]

Isn't using the fact his daughter fucks other races as a derogatory in fact makes you a racist?

Using logic with Zep is against the TOS of this forum. It's a complete waste of time and effort.

Just laugh at him like everyone else.

[ZeP]

Might have been a little over the top on that one. I'm on a big kick against Stormfront and I think PB has a handle there

[Parkbandit]

Might have been a little over the top on that one. I'm on a big kick against Stormfront and I think PB has a handle there

Big 10-4 good buddy. My handle is "Youranidiot"

[ZeP]

7307

[DoctorUnne]

Too bad the thread went in a different direction, because I think this was a watershed moment for the NFL. A budding star who has years of fame and millions in front of him and years of dedication and sacrifice behind him proactively retires because of concerns over his long-term health. What if this becomes a more frequent occurrence? The NFL will always have a popularity advantage over other professional sports because its content is both exciting and scarce, PROVIDED the players on the field are the best at what they do. Fans at the end of the day won't lose interest and stop spending their dollars because of rule tweaks around the edges, ex-players committing suicide, or current players beating their wives. But they will lose interest if the quality of play deteriorates because numerous stars retire prematurely or never see the field because their parents won't allow them to play as kids. It won't happen overnight, but I think it's a massive long-term issue and Borland's retirement was a seminal milestone.

[subzero]

On the other hand, you've got MMA which is growing daily. I wouldn't be surprised if more people decide to call it quits 'early', but I don't think it will ever be a number that has a noticeable impact on the league. The opportunity to change their lives and that of their families is just too great for that many people to pass up.

[Androidpk]

On the other hand, you've got MMA which is growing daily. I wouldn't be surprised if more people decide to call it quits 'early', but I don't think it will ever be a number that has a noticeable impact on the league. The opportunity to change their lives and that of their families is just too great for that many people to pass up.

Especially when so much freaking money is involved.

[waywardgs]

Too bad the thread went in a different direction, because I think this was a watershed moment for the NFL. A budding star who has years of fame and millions in front of him and years of dedication and sacrifice behind him proactively retires because of concerns over his long-term health. What if this becomes a more frequent occurrence? The NFL will always have a popularity advantage over other professional sports because its content is both exciting and scarce, PROVIDED the players on the field are the best at what they do. Fans at the end of the day won't lose interest and stop spending their dollars because of rule tweaks around the edges, ex-players committing suicide, or current players beating their wives. But they will lose interest if the quality of play deteriorates because numerous stars retire prematurely or never see the field because their parents won't allow them to play as kids. It won't happen overnight, but I think it's a massive long-term issue and Borland's retirement was a seminal milestone.

This is an actual issue in peewee football right now.

[JackWhisper]

This is an actual issue in peewee football right now.

My brother played football in high school. I wanted to play football just like him. A few days before freshmen got to try out for JV, my brother got tackled in a very bad way in a game. His spleen exploded. He went to the hospital.

And that was the end of sports for my brother and I both.

As a parent now, I understand the reasoning. But, as a teenager, I was really upset. And, instead, I played pickup games on random back fields with less rules and no padding and it was quite a bit more risky than playing in a structured environment like a school football team.

Removing the choice to play sports from kids who want to play sports just means they're going to find stupid ways to play the sports with less regard for health and safety than a supervised team would have. =(

[waywardgs]

My brother played football in high school. I wanted to play football just like him. A few days before freshmen got to try out for JV, my brother got tackled in a very bad way in a game. His spleen exploded. He went to the hospital.

And that was the end of sports for my brother and I both.

As a parent now, I understand the reasoning. But, as a teenager, I was really upset. And, instead, I played pickup games on random back fields with less rules and no padding and it was quite a bit more risky than playing in a structured environment like a school football team.

Removing the choice to play sports from kids who want to play sports just means they're going to find stupid ways to play the sports with less regard for health and safety than a supervised team would have. =(

Sometimes. The other side is that at a very young age, coaches are demanding little kids do very adult things. Adults literally adulterate the sport in ways that are oftentimes dangerous to children.

[JackWhisper]

Sometimes. The other side is that at a very young age, coaches are demanding little kids do very adult things. Adults literally adulterate the sport in ways that are oftentimes dangerous to children.

Yeah. I completely agree with this. When I was a kid, peewee had no pads. They had helmets though. It was kids in jerseys having fun. Now? It's kids in full NFL padding suits, except made for a 6 year old. Have you ever seen padded peewees trying to crouch down on the line like NFL players? It's almost comical in it's awkwardness and how uncomfortable the kids look in those getups. *Facepalm*

Coaches yelling at kids who barely have the presence of mind to wipe their butts after pooping, to read the play, call audibles, and do things adults have trouble doing without hundreds of hours of experience, repetition, practice, and memorization. *Facepalm*

Coaches *There are news stories on this, but I can't recall where/when. It's been in the last two years though* not giving their teenage teams water when they underperform at practice, trying to push these kids to work at NFL camp levels, causing deaths, both from kids who have died of dehydration, AND kids who overindulge in hydrating afterwards and die of liquid poisoning. *Facepalm* (I do remember the Jason Stinson story. That was just fucked up right there.)

People take this sort of thing way too far these days. =(

[Androidpk]

Any sport can be dangerous. I broke a kids nose in a soccer game once. God that was one bloody mess.

[JackWhisper]

Any sport can be dangerous. I broke a kids nose in a soccer game once. God that was one bloody mess.

Stop hitting little kids then, PK!

[DoctorUnne]

On the other hand, you've got MMA which is growing daily. I wouldn't be surprised if more people decide to call it quits 'early', but I don't think it will ever be a number that has a noticeable impact on the league. The opportunity to change their lives and that of their families is just too great for that many people to pass up.

Fair point

[Parkbandit]

On the other hand, you've got MMA which is growing daily. I wouldn't be surprised if more people decide to call it quits 'early', but I don't think it will ever be a number that has a noticeable impact on the league. The opportunity to change their lives and that of their families is just too great for that many people to pass up.

Yup... Shannon Sharpe basically said the same thing:

“For me, if I had to do it all over again I would do it a thousand times over. I grew up in rural South Georgia. Ten people living in a thousand square foot, cement floors, no paneling, no insulation. And we ate raccoon and rabbits and squirrel and armadillo. I survived for 20 years. But I didn’t want to survive another 20, 30 years. I wanted to live. Playing in the National Football League gave my brother and I for an opportunity not only for us to live but for my grandmother, my sister, my mom, we both had kids. It gave us an opportunity for our kids to live. And so, as a parent, you always say ‘I want better for my kids than I had it for myself.’”

[Wrathbringer]

Yup... Shannon Sharpe basically said the same thing:

“For me, if I had to do it all over again I would do it a thousand times over. I grew up in rural South Georgia. Ten people living in a thousand square foot, cement floors, no paneling, no insulation. And we ate raccoon and rabbits and squirrel and armadillo. I survived for 20 years. But I didn’t want to survive another 20, 30 years. I wanted to live. Playing in the National Football League gave my brother and I for an opportunity not only for us to live but for my grandmother, my sister, my mom, we both had kids. It gave us an opportunity for our kids to live. And so, as a parent, you always say ‘I want better for my kids than I had it for myself.’”

Suicide bombers have the exact same reasoning. Just an observation.

[Latrinsorm]

On the other hand, you've got MMA which is growing daily. I wouldn't be surprised if more people decide to call it quits 'early', but I don't think it will ever be a number that has a noticeable impact on the league. The opportunity to change their lives and that of their families is just too great for that many people to pass up.Quantifying the popularity of a sport is pretty difficult. The only historical database I know of where people are flat out asked whether they follow a sport is Gallup, and they don't even bother asking (http://www.gallup.com/poll/4735/Sports.aspx) about MMA. Looking at other data, PPV sales for UFC are down (http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2014/11/06/SMT-Conference/Dana-White.aspx), continuing a trend since 2010 (http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/ppv-buys-indicative-ufc-popularity-some-graphs-stats-2115349/). Everyone knows baseball is in decline, but their ticket sales have been stable for a decade (http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/2/10/5390172/major-league-attendance-trends-1950-2013). Going back to the Gallup point, notice also how MLB sells 150 million tickets a year compared to UFC's 3 million-ish, and obviously UFC doesn't get any concession money from PPVs. Even if MMA is growing, it has a long, long, long, long way to go from being a niche sport.

As for football, when you're on top the only way to go is down. Horse racing, boxing, baseball, they all passed the torch in the public consciousness if nothing else. There's no reason to think football is any different, even before considering the massive health implications. Returning to Gallup, it's trending up in terms of people who are fans at all, but trending down in terms of being peoples' favorite sport. The Super Bowl is invincible, but even its viewership per capita has been down since 2011.

[subzero]

Quantifying the popularity of a sport is pretty difficult. The only historical database I know of where people are flat out asked whether they follow a sport is Gallup, and they don't even bother asking (http://www.gallup.com/poll/4735/Sports.aspx) about MMA. Looking at other data, PPV sales for UFC are down (http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2014/11/06/SMT-Conference/Dana-White.aspx), continuing a trend since 2010 (http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/ppv-buys-indicative-ufc-popularity-some-graphs-stats-2115349/). Everyone knows baseball is in decline, but their ticket sales have been stable for a decade (http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/2/10/5390172/major-league-attendance-trends-1950-2013). Going back to the Gallup point, notice also how MLB sells 150 million tickets a year compared to UFC's 3 million-ish, and obviously UFC doesn't get any concession money from PPVs. Even if MMA is growing, it has a long, long, long, long way to go from being a niche sport.

As for football, when you're on top the only way to go is down. Horse racing, boxing, baseball, they all passed the torch in the public consciousness if nothing else. There's no reason to think football is any different, even before considering the massive health implications. Returning to Gallup, it's trending up in terms of people who are fans at all, but trending down in terms of being peoples' favorite sport. The Super Bowl is invincible, but even its viewership per capita has been down since 2011.

With the topic here essentially being about people getting their heads knocked around I'm talking about people entering into MMA, not the number of fans watching the sport.

edit: Just throwing out a point on the PPV buy thing... the UFC also has regular events free on TV in addition to PPVs, which are often pirated or viewed in restaurants/bars resulting in skewed numbers if you're trying to estimate fans based on PPV buys.

[JackWhisper]

Mike Tyson when he first entered boxing. - Semi unintelligible
Mike Tyson 25 years later after he stopped boxing - Semi unintelligible.

WHAT THE PROBLEM IS?!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ6blrpiYNY

[DoctorUnne]

As for football, when you're on top the only way to go is down. Horse racing, boxing, baseball, they all passed the torch in the public consciousness if nothing else. There's no reason to think football is any different, even before considering the massive health implications. Returning to Gallup, it's trending up in terms of people who are fans at all, but trending down in terms of being peoples' favorite sport. The Super Bowl is invincible, but even its viewership per capita has been down since 2011.

Even though football will always be my favorite sport by far, I would absolutely short football and go long the NBA over the long-term. The NBA is most likely to be the direct beneficiary of any decline in football's popularity. Similar demographics for players, much more player-friendly, way more recognizable stars. Almost every NFL player would rather be an NBA player of equal caliber.

[Androidpk]

I say we replace football with jump ball.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/starshiptroopers/images/3/3a/Jumpball.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width/480?cb=20121229203842

[Gompers]

I say we replace football with jump ball.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/starshiptroopers/images/3/3a/Jumpball.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width/480?cb=20121229203842

Time to bust out my Starship Troopers VHS.

[Androidpk]

Time to bust out my Starship Troopers VHS.

My favorite movie of the 20th century.

[Thondalar]

Quantifying the popularity of a sport is pretty difficult. The only historical database I know of where people are flat out asked whether they follow a sport is Gallup, and they don't even bother asking (http://www.gallup.com/poll/4735/Sports.aspx) about MMA. Looking at other data, PPV sales for UFC are down (http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2014/11/06/SMT-Conference/Dana-White.aspx), continuing a trend since 2010 (http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/ppv-buys-indicative-ufc-popularity-some-graphs-stats-2115349/). Everyone knows baseball is in decline, but their ticket sales have been stable for a decade (http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/2/10/5390172/major-league-attendance-trends-1950-2013). Going back to the Gallup point, notice also how MLB sells 150 million tickets a year compared to UFC's 3 million-ish, and obviously UFC doesn't get any concession money from PPVs. Even if MMA is growing, it has a long, long, long, long way to go from being a niche sport.

There are (roughly) 2,430 regular-season games in an MLB season, across multiple venues...of course they sell more tickets than a monthly event held at a handful of venues. You can't compare something that happens 162 times a year in 30 different regional areas to something that happens occasionally. I would wager that more people watch every UFC fight than watch any MLB game, save maybe the World Series. I like how you linked a story about UFC PPV sales being down, instead of linking actual data showing that they were down...and at the same time ignoring some very poignant points that Dana White made about the sport. I'm certain you already accounted for the fact that since 2013 (when UFC PPV sales started declining) they've had a very lucrative deal with Fox Sports to show several previously-PPV events for free. Right?


As for football, when you're on top the only way to go is down. Horse racing, boxing, baseball, they all passed the torch in the public consciousness if nothing else. There's no reason to think football is any different, even before considering the massive health implications. Returning to Gallup, it's trending up in terms of people who are fans at all, but trending down in terms of being peoples' favorite sport. The Super Bowl is invincible, but even its viewership per capita has been down since 2011.

2014 was up half a mill over 2011. Superbowl viewership, I mean. 2012 was up 300k over 2011. 2013 was an anomaly...I would like to say because nobody cared about the Ravens vs. the 49'ers, but that can't be right. Maybe because it was on CBS? Interestingly enough, that low mark of 108.4 million viewers (more than 5 times higher than anything else put on TV that year) was the first time a 30-second commercial spot broke the 4 million dollar price tag.


edit: just realized you snuck in that little "per capita". Touche.

[Latrinsorm]

There are (roughly) 2,430 regular-season games in an MLB season, across multiple venues...of course they sell more tickets than a monthly event held at a handful of venues. You can't compare something that happens 162 times a year in 30 different regional areas to something that happens occasionally. I would wager that more people watch every UFC fight than watch any MLB game, save maybe the World Series.If UFC was in the same demand, the invisible hand would bequeath unto them 2,430 events too, or their ticket prices would be 50 times as expensive. As near as I can tell their tickets are on the order of 4 times as expensive.
I like how you linked a story about UFC PPV sales being down, instead of linking actual data showing that they were down...and at the same time ignoring some very poignant points that Dana White made about the sport. I'm certain you already accounted for the fact that since 2013 (when UFC PPV sales started declining) they've had a very lucrative deal with Fox Sports to show several previously-PPV events for free. Right?I linked both, which is how I demonstrated that the decline started in 2010, not 2013. The Fox Sports deal did not replace PPV events with free events, it added free events that would not otherwise have been broadcast at all. There were 14 PPVs in 2012, 14 in 2013, 13 in 2014, and there are 13 that have happened or are scheduled for 2015.
2014 was up half a mill over 2011. Superbowl viewership, I mean. 2012 was up 300k over 2011. 2013 was an anomaly...I would like to say because nobody cared about the Ravens vs. the 49'ers, but that can't be right. Maybe because it was on CBS? Interestingly enough, that low mark of 108.4 million viewers (more than 5 times higher than anything else put on TV that year) was the first time a 30-second commercial spot broke the 4 million dollar price tag. edit: just realized you snuck in that little "per capita". Touche.:)

[JackWhisper]

Yeah I don't mean to point out a glaring inaccuracy, but I actually do watch MMA, and have followed the growing sport for several years. Well before it turned into more of a show and less about...arite whatever. I've been watching it for a long time.

They don't have 2,430 events because they have a smaller roster, on purpose. This is, of course, comparing to things like football, and boxing, of which it almost directly compares to. And boxing has a *LOT* more boxers, in comparison.

They don't have that many events because of medical clearance. Every fighter must be cleared by a doctor. You cannot fight multiple times, even with small injuries. A doctor will not clear you. There have been exceptions, and there have been fired doctors over other exceptions that shouldn't have been made.

Dana White addressed this exact statement you made, years ago. Do research better. Before someone invents an armbar smiley face and I use it on you! :argue:

[Latrinsorm]

It strikes me as odd that people are taking Dana White's word for it that his sport is growing. Did any of you take Bud Selig's word for it when he said in 2014 (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10874845/mlb-commissioner-bud-selig-baseball-never-more-popular) that baseball "has never been more popular"? I should hope not.

As to the point that they have X number of events and no more on purpose, the total number of events UFC holds has grown dramatically over the last few years. It's specifically the events that customers directly pay for that have held constant, and the number of customers willing to pay for them has declined. Like I said in my first post, quantifying a sport's popularity is difficult, so I'm not saying this data is the be-all end-all. All I'm saying is that we should look at data rather than merely repeat allegations that the sport is growing or shrinking. Data is never perfect, but it's always better than "I reckon".

[Celephais]

Any sport can be dangerous. I broke a kids nose in a soccer game once. God that was one bloody mess.

It is really sad to see someone have to go through life living with the damages caused by broken noses. It's really relevant to this conversation.

[Androidpk]

It is really sad to see someone have to go through life living with the damages caused by broken noses. It's really relevant to this conversation.

I saw a translucent give someone a broken nose once.