How Would You Design a Free Account?

[Fallen]

I'm curious to hear people's ideas for setting up a promotion that would serve existing and returning accounts, as opposed to entirely new customers. The idea is to design an account which would either be free, or nearly free for existing players. What restrictions would there be? How would you discourage making service accounts, or would you at all? Should the attempt be made at all, or would it cut too much into revenue and/or overlap with the promotion Simu just announced?



Here are some restrictions I would place on a free veteran account:

- Tie it to a credit card. 1 free account per person. Yes, there are ways around this, but I imagine most wouldn't bother.

- 1 Character per account. You can buy more account slots, renewed yearly or you lose access to those added characters.

- Higher priced character transfer fees, but otherwise can transfer freely.

- No gift of Lumnis, but otherwise gain/absorb experience at normal rates. You can buy monthly/yearly access to the Gift of Lumnis.

- Extra charge for all pay events if you wish the account to have access.

- Only 1 locker allowed in one town. Can be moved using the standard methods.

- Reduced item limit per character. Can purchase readly upgrade to standard amount.

- You can join CHEs/MHOs, but cannot hold an officer position, nor create your own MHO. CHE membership does not increase locker space.

- 1 Adventurer's Guild task per hour. Can upgrade on a monthly/yearly level for normal access.

- Cannot reach saturation point for experience. Upgrade Monthly/yearly for normal access.

- Ad banners on the FE (Stormfront and Wizard)

- Pay gates for Experience, Guild Skills, and Artisan Ranks (X dollars every Y levels/ranks)

[Tgo01]

I'm curious to hear people's ideas for setting up a promotion that would serve existing and returning accounts. The idea is to design an account which would either be free, or nearly free for existing players. What restrictions would there be? How would you discourage making service accounts, or would you at all? Should the attempt be made at all, or would it cut too much into revenue and/or overlap with the promotion Simu just announced?

I think the idea of a free account just isn't going to work. Simu has to put some sort of restrictions in place so people don't create their own free pocket <insert class here>.

Simu has basically admitted the goal of these free accounts is to get people to switch over to at least a basic subscription, and that's not a horrible goal at all.

I think they should have expanded upon the 30 day free trial in some fashion; increase it to a 60 day free trial that requires no credit card but your experience is capped to level 20 or 25 and your silver is capped at 100k or 200k and there would be a limit on how much you can drop/give to other players.

As I said in the other thread I just don't see a credit card requirement being the factor that kept people from giving the game a shot and even if it was that doesn't mean you have to go the "free" account route and limit their game play so much that they would either have to dive into the SimuCoin store or just buy a basic account.

[Fallen]

I think the idea of a free account just isn't going to work. Simu has to put some sort of restrictions in place so people don't create their own free pocket <insert class here>.

I think limiting 1 free account per customer would help to prevent that.

[Atlanteax]

I'm curious to hear people's ideas for setting up a promotion that would serve existing and returning accounts, as opposed to entirely new customers. The idea is to design an account which would either be free, or nearly free for existing players. What restrictions would there be? How would you discourage making service accounts, or would you at all? Should the attempt be made at all, or would it cut too much into revenue and/or overlap with the promotion Simu just announced?

Here are some restrictions I would place on a free veteran account:

- Tie it to a credit card. 1 free account per person. Yes, there are ways around this, but I imagine most wouldn't bother.

- 1 Character per account. You can buy more account slots, renewed yearly or you lose access to those added characters.

- Higher priced character transfer fees, but otherwise can transfer freely.

- No gift of Lumnis, but otherwise gain/absorb experience at normal rates. You can buy monthly/yearly access to the Gift of Lumnis.

- Extra charge for all pay events if you wish the account to have access.

- Only 1 locker allowed in one town. Can be moved using the standard methods.

- Reduced item limit per character. Can purchase readly upgrade to standard amount.

- You can join CHEs/MHOs, but cannot hold an officer position, nor create your own MHO. CHE membership does not increase locker space.

- 1 Adventurer's Guild task per hour. Can upgrade on a monthly/yearly level for normal access.

- Cannot reach saturation point for experience. Upgrade Monthly/yearly for normal access.

Not too bad of a F2P format with all the primary perks being micro $$s.

[Astray]

The issue with micro-transactions and a subscription is that the micro can't outshine the subscription benefits. If I can just upgrade my free account with things that are not accessible via the pay to play route, what's the point of upgrading?

I believe that if you are going to have both, you need to offer things like XP boosters and loot boosters to paying players, not the other way around.

[Taernath]

- unlimited time
- tied to credit card (let's face it, most of us have had access to a CC or debit card for 15+ years)
- level gateways (ex. pay $20 every 10 levels)
- reduced locker space
- reduced bank limit
- single character slot
- no lumnis, standard xp gain otherwise
- increased fees for pay events (I'd prefer to see subscribers get a discount while F2P pay standard price, like that will ever happen)
- ability to 'upgrade' or 'downgrade' account, i.e. play your main as a F2P for a while, then upgrade to a subscription and keep your stuff
- no transfers, although a different system would need to be developed if upgrades/downgrades are allowed
- 1 locker per town
- can't join houses
- *maybe* no guild mastery
- full society mastery

[Fallen]

The issue with micro-transactions and a subscription is that the micro can't outshine the subscription benefits. If I can just upgrade my free account with things that are not accessible via the pay to play route, what's the point of upgrading?

I believe that if you are going to have both, you need to offer things like XP boosters and loot boosters to paying players, not the other way around.

The idea with the micro-transactions are to bring the free account to the level of the sub accounts ala carte. I'm not proposing any benefits beyond what normal subscription accounts could access.

[Wrathbringer]

The idea with the micro-transactions are to bring the free account to the level of the sub accounts ala carte. I'm not proposing any benefits beyond what normal subscription accounts could access.

I think we should just socialize gemstone so that everyone plays free.

[Fallen]

- level gateways (ex. pay $20 every 10 levels)
- reduced bank limit
- ability to 'upgrade' or 'downgrade' account, i.e. play your main as a F2P for a while, then upgrade to a subscription and keep your stuff

I like these ideas. If your bank account is over the limit when the account is activated, then you cannot deposit anymore but you obviously wouldn't lose what you had.



- no transfers, although a different system would need to be developed if upgrades/downgrades are allowed
- can't join houses
- *maybe* no guild mastery


These I don't like. Houses are a part some character's identities. They can promote roleplay. I would say just strip any mechanical benefit from being in a house, rather than outright preventing it.

Guild/Society mastery is one of those things that I think people would find not worth the bother if blocked.

I do like your idea about paying X amount per so many levels. Perhaps do the same thing with guild skills? X amount per every 10 guild ranks.

[Taernath]

These I don't like. Houses are a part some character's identities. They can promote roleplay. I would say just strip any mechanical benefit from being in a house, rather than outright preventing it.

Guild/Society mastery is one of those things that I think people would find not worth the bother if blocked.

I do like your idea about paying X amount per so many levels. Perhaps do the same thing with guild skills? X amount per every 10 guild ranks.

Yeah I've never been in a House or made guild master (lol ranger guild) so I don't know the mechanical benefits to each. And definitely the skill ranks could be monetized. Maybe no access to crafting professions.

[Astray]

I think it's a missed opportunity not to sell the exp, loot, etc boosters to the older players.

[Fallen]

Yeah I've never been in a House or made guild master (lol ranger guild) so I don't know the mechanical benefits to each. And definitely the skill ranks could be monetized. Maybe no access to crafting professions.

I think you're onto something in general with the idea of gating character advancements behind pay walls.

- Gating Experience gain, both levels, and then bulk EXP for capped characters.

-Gating Guild ranks

- Gating Artisan Ranks

Any others you can think of?

[stormcrow]

Honestly, for people who have never played GS in any form they won't know the difference. They won't look at it as all the things taken away from them since they never had them in the first place. I've played World of Tanks sometimes and it's a free game. But to get more exp and to get camouflage armor you need to buy their gold coins. Can you play it without that aid, sure, but things are better with the extra stuff. To a new player it gives them some time to figure out hey do I like this .. if they do enough .. they will pay. It's the basic model for all these new games and apps coming out. Just think about how nice it would be to go into the east tower with 20 people looking for boxes that need to be opened; or all the people that will need healing and all the new drama.

[Tgo01]

Honestly, for people who have never played GS in any form they won't know the difference. They won't look at it as all the things taken away from them since they never had them in the first place.

Yeah but that's what I don't understand; if this was meant for 100% totally new players of GS then why was it needed at all when they already had the 30 day free trial?

This sort of piecemeal approach would make sense if a basic subscription cost 50 dollars a month. People would try the free month then say "Meh, game was fun but not sure I want to pay 50 bucks a month" but they might be willing to just buy the perks they wanted.

For 15 dollars a month though (even though by MMO standards it's outrageous for a text game) I don't see someone who is really interested enough in playing GS to stop them from paying it after their 30 day trial, especially if we're already considering that they might have to pay 5-10+ dollars a month for a "free" account very quickly if they want to continue to advance their character.

[Taernath]

Honestly, for people who have never played GS in any form they won't know the difference. They won't look at it as all the things taken away from them since they never had them in the first place. I've played World of Tanks sometimes and it's a free game. But to get more exp and to get camouflage armor you need to buy their gold coins. Can you play it without that aid, sure, but things are better with the extra stuff. To a new player it gives them some time to figure out hey do I like this .. if they do enough .. they will pay. It's the basic model for all these new games and apps coming out. Just think about how nice it would be to go into the east tower with 20 people looking for boxes that need to be opened; or all the people that will need healing and all the new drama.

Camouflaged armor is a cosmetic thing though, right? Is XP gain limited?

[stormcrow]

Camouflaged armor is a cosmetic thing though, right? Is XP gain limited?

No You have a camo rating depending on your crews skill and whether you have items like a camo net on your tank, camo armor adds another rank. I was told this but am far from an expert. On XP you get a modifier, you get basically double the exp than a basic account gets.

[Astray]

Camouflaged armor is a cosmetic thing though, right? Is XP gain limited?

Nobody limits exp gain. They always sell boosters that double, triple, or even quadruple it but never do they directly limit the gain. An MMO can justify selling the boosters because the exp is often huge leaps and bounds after your initial dozen or so levels.

[stormcrow]

I'm not sure .. but I think with the free trial you also need an credit card to get started. I believe this is one thing simu wanted to eliminate.


Yeah but that's what I don't understand; if this was meant for 100% totally new players of GS then why was it needed at all when they already had the 30 day free trial?

This sort of piecemeal approach would make sense if a basic subscription cost 50 dollars a month. People would try the free month then say "Meh, game was fun but not sure I want to pay 50 bucks a month" but they might be willing to just buy the perks they wanted.

For 15 dollars a month though (even though by MMO standards it's outrageous for a text game) I don't see someone who is really interested enough in playing GS to stop them from paying it after their 30 day trial, especially if we're already considering that they might have to pay 5-10+ dollars a month for a "free" account very quickly if they want to continue to advance their character.

[Kithus]

Honestly I do not believe you could do a free account that did not include a lot of the restrictions we are seeing on the F2P accounts announced. Maybe they could make a bargain account that costs $5/month and still restricts things like casting on others, healing, raiding, foraging, etc. No experience, silver, society, etc limit but you will not just be a cheaper alternative for everyone's pocket characters. The moment you allow an existing account to downgrade to something cheaper and still retain the ability to offer benefits to other characters you are just making a pocket wizard/healer/cleric/picker/etc account.

[Fallen]

Honestly I do not believe you could do a free account that did not include a lot of the restrictions we are seeing on the F2P accounts announced. Maybe they could make a bargain account that costs $5/month and still restricts things like casting on others, healing, raiding, foraging, etc. No experience, silver, society, etc limit but you will not just be a cheaper alternative for everyone's pocket characters. The moment you allow an existing account to downgrade to something cheaper and still retain the ability to offer benefits to other characters you are just making a pocket wizard/healer/cleric/picker/etc account.

The limitation of 1 free account per person would help with this issue, in addition to them only being 1 character slot per account.

[Fallen]

Also, simple solution people haven't thought about: Advertising (banners and such) on Stormfront/Wizard FEs

Annoying as shit? You bet, but it would bring in a few bucks and it would be pretty targeted demographic. No adblock for Stormfront, as far as I know.

[Gelston]

Also, simple solution people haven't thought about: Advertising (banners and such) on Stormfront/Wizard FEs

Annoying as shit? You bet, but it would bring in a few bucks and it would be pretty targeted demographic. No adblock for Stormfront, as far as I know.

Until the day after they did it and then there was.

[Fallen]

Until the day after they did it and then there was.

The use of Adblock is known by websites, they simply choose to allow you to continue using the website. Simu would choose not to do so.

[Latrinsorm]

The only thing that matters is the community. No community, no game.

-No tie to credit card. Get the kids in here. Encourage community.
-No banners. The gain is minimal, the intrusion is maximal, and knowing Simu it'll crash Wizard four times an hour anyway.
-Two character slots per account, and make that inherent to Basic too, because c'mon.
-Get whatever EXP you want. Lumnis or no Lumnis, 100% or 50%, it doesn't matter, but no level caps.
-No restrictions on guilds or societies. Encourage community.
-Same lockers as Basic. If you join a house, you get the house locker. Encourage community, or at least Whirlin's bow.
-Severe income and wealth restrictions.
-Severe interpersonal mechanical restrictions. Picking, healing, raising, spelling up. As time goes on, reduce in proportion to population increases.
I think you're onto something in general with the idea of gating character advancements behind pay walls.
Yeah but that's what I don't understand; if this was meant for 100% totally new players of GS then why was it needed at all when they already had the 30 day free trial?This defeats the purpose of F2P entirely. It's free forever or it's not.

[Tgo01]

This defeats the purpose of F2P entirely. It's free forever or it's not.

Yes but the way Simu has decided to tackle their F2P model is they apparently force you to move to basic or to spend cash relatively quickly to advance your character.

This is very different than games like, say, Farmville. You can do everything in Farmville without spending a single penny, can the same be said about a free GS account? I suppose you could theoretically gain experience forever without spending a penny but by Solomon's own admission it quickly reaches a point where it becomes pointless to even try.

[Latrinsorm]

Yes but the way Simu has decided to tackle their F2P model is they apparently force you to move to basic or to spend cash relatively quickly to advance your character.Nobody is forced to do anything. You spend if you want to level at an arbitrary rate that's faster than the arbitrary rate you're at. In no way does that require you to pay to play the game.
This is very different than games like, say, Farmville. You can do everything in Farmville without spending a single penny, can the same be said about a free GS account? I suppose you could theoretically gain experience forever without spending a penny but by Solomon's own admission it quickly reaches a point where it becomes pointless to even try.Your interpretation of Solomon's comments is flawed.

[Tgo01]

Nobody is forced to do anything.

Did you stop reading my sentence halfway through or what? :/


You spend if you want to level at an arbitrary rate that's faster than the arbitrary rate you're at.

Yes. And if you want to join a society or use higher end weapons and armor or cast spells on other people or use certain spells with no cooldowns.


In no way does that require you to pay to play the game.Your interpretation of Solomon's comments is flawed.

My interpretation of Solomon's comments are spot on.

[Latrinsorm]

You said...

people are forced to
(1) move to basic
or
(2) spend cash relatively quickly
to advance their character

This is wrong. All freeps can advance their character.

[Tgo01]

You said...

people are forced to
(1) move to basic
or
(2) spend cash relatively quickly
to advance their character

This is wrong. All freeps can advance their character.

Solomon said without the experience boost you'll eventually reach a point where it becomes nearly impossible to advance. I forgot his exact wording and I'm too lazy to find it so you'll just have to trust me on this.

Not to mention if you're a healing empath who has diminished experience absorption as well limited to how many people they can heal.

[Fallen]

Solomon said without the experience boost you'll eventually reach a point where it becomes nearly impossible to advance. I forgot his exact wording and I'm too lazy to find it so you'll just have to trust me on this.

I remember that phrase too, but I can't find it.

This line, though, goes to show how difficult they believe it will be to gain meaningful amounts of experience towards end-game: "Some day, I have no doubt we will see a capped F2P character, and that will be an incredible achievement and something that will deserve recognition."

Honestly, though, I don't think it would be that hard. Roll up a sorcerer, focus implode the shit out of everything because you can't use/store the treasure anyway.

[Androidpk]

Solomon said without the experience boost you'll eventually reach a point where it becomes nearly impossible to advance. I forgot his exact wording and I'm too lazy to find it so you'll just have to trust me on this.

Not to mention if you're a healing empath who has diminished experience absorption as well limited to how many people they can heal.

You can cap with a f2p account. You can't cap with a 30 day trial.

[Ysamine]

Yeah but that's what I don't understand; if this was meant for 100% totally new players of GS then why was it needed at all when they already had the 30 day free trial?

This sort of piecemeal approach would make sense if a basic subscription cost 50 dollars a month. People would try the free month then say "Meh, game was fun but not sure I want to pay 50 bucks a month" but they might be willing to just buy the perks they wanted.

For 15 dollars a month though (even though by MMO standards it's outrageous for a text game) I don't see someone who is really interested enough in playing GS to stop them from paying it after their 30 day trial, especially if we're already considering that they might have to pay 5-10+ dollars a month for a "free" account very quickly if they want to continue to advance their character.

Because 30 days for a true newb is a drop in the bucket on the learning curve. Because for a true newb having to give a credit card is something they might not want to do right away.

I still say this implementation isn't the train wreck many of you seem to think it is. It seems pretty well thought out from a management point of view.

[Astray]

I've already admitted it is a step in the right direction. What I would love to see is a free, basic account without restriction. As this is nothing short of a fever dream, I would thoroughly enjoy seeing boosters available to anyone, rather than limiting them to Free players until they become paying customers. In fact, why even give them boosters or peripherals? Isn't that a bit counter intuitive?

Maybe that's just me being picky again.

[Tgo01]

This line, though, goes to show how difficult they believe it will be to gain meaningful amounts of experience towards end-game: "Some day, I have no doubt we will see a capped F2P character, and that will be an incredible achievement and something that will deserve recognition."

True. But notice he doesn't say a 100% free F2P character, maybe he was assuming the person was at least buying the experience booster.


You can cap with a f2p account.

I don't know, can you? :/

Keep in mind I'm talking about not buying a single thing from the SimuCoin store.

If by "you can cap with a f2p account" and we assume you will at least be able to absorb 1 experience per pulse then yes, eventually it would be possible. But if we're talking in practical terms, is it possible?

It's around 8 million experience to cap (like 7.8 or something, too lazy to get exact number.) Let's say someone really loves hunting in GS and plays 10 hours a day and manages to gain an average of 2k experience per hour, that's 20k experience per day, 10k experience per week from Lumnis, 150k a week, 7.8 million in a year (hey look at that!)

We already know free accounts won't get Lumnis, let's say their absorption rate is halved, that's 10k experience per day, 70k per week, 3.6 million per year, 2 years and 7 weeks to cap.

What if someone realistically can only play and hunt 5 hours per day, that's 4 years and 14 weeks.

And if experience absorption is only a fourth of a normal character's? 8 years and 28 weeks.

Not practical.

http://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1339349657919_8805207.png

[Androidpk]

So... It's possible to cap with a f2p account. Thanks for proving it mathematically.

[Tgo01]

So... It's possible to cap with a f2p account. Thanks for proving it mathematically.

I questioned if you were talking in the strictest sense of the phrase "it's possible" or if you were talking in practical terms. You did not clarify yet claimed victory. I demand you rectify this atrocity at once.

[Androidpk]

I questioned if you were talking in the strictest sense of the phrase "it's possible" or if you were talking in practical terms. You did not clarify yet claimed victory. I demand you rectify this atrocity at once.

What you consider practical isn't what everyone else considers practical. I've played GS on and off for 20 years now and I've never capped yet it's still one of my favorite games of all time. So be a good lad and go fetch me some victory biscuits and tea.

[Tgo01]

I've played GS on and off for 20 years now and I've never capped yet it's still one of my favorite games of all time.

But your original statement wasn't that people don't need to cap to have fun, it was and I quote:


You can cap with a f2p account.

In conclusion:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rNv8_EuJA50/UD7A6e0MroI/AAAAAAAAAls/9x2Ri7T8u7M/s1600/DSC03207.JPG

[Luxelle]

Because 30 days for a true newb is a drop in the bucket on the learning curve. Because for a true newb having to give a credit card is something they might not want to do right away.

I was *still* completely lost 30 days in...

[mgoddess]

2 years and 7 weeks to cap.

What if someone realistically can only play and hunt 5 hours per day, that's 4 years and 14 weeks.

And if experience absorption is only a fourth of a normal character's? 8 years and 28 weeks.

Not "practical", in terms of your tiny brain.

I've got a paladin who I played pretty consistently for 8 years... wanna know what level she is? 75.

Yup, 8 years in, and my main character, that I played the most, isn't even close, exp-wise, to cap.

Even if she was the *only* character I ever played, I doubt she'd be capped. My other characters experience totals only add to to maybe five or ten extra levels on the paladin.

I'd much rather the chance to be able to play GS for free, no matter the restrictions, for free... and hell, I may even get my F2P character close to mid-levels, at some point. The point though, is that she'll be free, no matter what. I doubt I'll spend any money on her, and if I do, it'll be to unlock the ability to join a society. Anything/Everything else, not needed in my opinion.

[Latrinsorm]

Solomon said without the experience boost you'll eventually reach a point where it becomes nearly impossible to advance. I forgot his exact wording and I'm too lazy to find it so you'll just have to trust me on this.

Not to mention if you're a healing empath who has diminished experience absorption as well limited to how many people they can heal.Diminished, limited, nearly impossible... they all mean possible.
And if experience absorption is only a fourth of a normal character's? 8 years and 28 weeks.People have been playing this game for literal decades without capping, and they still play. Good day, sir.

I SAID GOOD DAY

[Androidpk]

But your original statement wasn't that people don't need to cap to have fun, it was and I quote:



You weren't sure if f2p accounts could cap. I told you they could. Case closed.

[Tgo01]

People have been playing this game for literal decades without capping, and they still play. Good day, sir.

There are people who have been hunting for 5+ hours every day, gaining 2k exp per hour, for literally decades and they still haven't capped?

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/027/e/f/you_lost_the_game_by_yamiokami666-d4nsqjg.png

[prance1520]

I always thought that when Simu did go to F2P, it would be more current playerbase friendly than what they came out with. That said, having this is certainly better than no F2P option.

I agree with the concept that everything is accessible for free at the cost of speed/productivity, but I disagree with the penalties to festival costs. In my mind, F2Ps lost revenue is made up in players springing for micro-transations and festivals. I really feel a F2P player isn't someone who won't spend money, just someone who wants to pick and choose what they spend their money on.

- Current Basic account, 1 character.
- No Gift.
- Limit on daily silver gain.
- Limit on bank balance.
- Small lockers.

With the silver limitations, your edging these people to get their gear from the micro-transaction world where bloodscip is worth more to them than silvers. Couple bucks a month for some Duskruin runs and eventually you can earn yourself a Nerve Staff. Still cheaper than a subscription with no monthly monetary commitment, just really slow compared to just buying gear upgrades for silvers.

I think with this, I'd change PP system as a reward for maintaining a subscription. Basic subscription accounts get 100PP/month, premium gets 300PP/month. Expand the PP system to all kinds of gear upgrades (adding/increasing banes, weighting/padding past heavy, +TD, etc).

On top of this, every time they offer a raffle for something that has limits of the item that will be worked on (+10 padding, up to heavy, 7x enchant max type of restrictions), a player can spend PP equal to the power level gap between the top of the restriction and their gear to have their uber gear worked on. Just another nice speed increase reward to those premium subscribers who have been sitting on the same gear for years waiting for CCF8 (the ocho) to come around for upgrades.

[Taernath]

Any others you can think of?

How about critters have a very small chance of dropping special chests which contain X% better loot, requiring a (non-transferrable) key from the Simucoin store to open? Sort of the TF2/GW2 model there. Could be available to both F2P characters and subscribers, and could possibly bypass the F2P loot restrictions.