American Sniper - Film

[Atlanteax]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Sniper_%28film%29

Apparently, this film may exceed Mel Gibson's "The Passion (of the Christ)"'s record for a R-rated film.

What did our Vets think of it?

[Gelston]

I haven't seen it. Don't plan to until it is out of theaters.

[kutter]

It was a very powerful movie. I have not read the book, not sure if I will or not, but you get a sense of what drove him to do what he did. He truly believed that islamic extremist are evil, in the same way that Ronald Reagan believed communism is evil. My perception is probably skewed because I also tend to believe those two things.

That having been said, it was a very well made movie theatrically, and the performances by Bradley Cooper and Sienna Miller are indeed worth of Oscar mention. Best picture, I doubt it even if it deserved it, which I cannot say since I have not seen the others with the exception of the Grand Budapest Hotel, which I did like very much, but it never struck me as a best picture movie.

[Atlanteax]

Of course, the clowns at RollingStone (the magazine) attempted to demonize the movie.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/american-sniper-is-almost-too-dumb-to-criticize-20150121?page=3

I saw American Sniper last night, and hated it slightly less than I expected to.

[Warriorbird]

There's some flat out unreal and disproven stuff in the film but it isn't badly made at all. Kyle was a complex figure and his book is worth reading with a critical eye.

[RichardCranium]

Of course, the clowns at RollingStone (the magazine) attempted to demonize the movie.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/american-sniper-is-almost-too-dumb-to-criticize-20150121?page=3

A fairly unbiased opinion.

[Taernath]

It's not really the kind of movie I'd want to see. When it pops up on Netflix I might watch it, but eh.

[kutter]

A fairly unbiased opinion.

Are you serious, you thought that was unbiased?

I cannot fathom why the left is so vitriolic about this movie, no one forced them to go see it, what is going on there?

[Warriorbird]

Are you serious, you thought that was unbiased?

I cannot fathom why the left is so vitriolic about this movie, no one forced them to go see it, what is going on there?

I wouldn't really call him "the left." A lot of people (and military people included) seem to not be fans because the guy didn't tell the truth, "great soldier" or no, and it's the sort of film that makes it easy to not think deeply about the war. If I remember right they declare at one point that shooting a single sniper might "win the war." I think they brought that up in that review.

I am "the left" but I don't think I'm "vitriolic" about it. I encourage people to read the book, which I think gives a more complex view to think critically on, and read about the stuff he didn't tell the truth about. Just because the guy died doesn't make him immune to fact checking.

[Parkbandit]

Are you serious, you thought that was unbiased?

I cannot fathom why the left is so vitriolic about this movie, no one forced them to go see it, what is going on there?

You can't? As a group, they have a strong disdain for the military and this is a movie about one of the heros of the war.

[Whirlin]

I've heard some negative press about Kyle since the movie was released. He's been quoted as saying that he truly enjoyed killing people.

Kutter... you got wooshed by Richard

Left is up in arms about it because it conveys pro-war sentiments, and conveys heroes as people who have killed the most amount of people. It's also anti-Islam, which will only breed more hate and prejudice against Islam, even if subtly.

All of that is contextual though to the story, and I don't think it should diminish from the writing in the screenplay or the acting that went on in the movie, which I've heard is spectacular.

[RichardCranium]

Kutter... you got wooshed by Richard

I forgot to use my sarcasm font.

[kutter]

I am certain Kyle was not exactly as portrayed, he was after all a dyed in the wool killer, I feel certain that does something to you.

I am ok with anti-islam. When the rest of the Islamic world becomes openly critical of the extremist and assist in bringing them down, then we can have a discussion about treating them differently. I know several and they all tell me they do not agree with the extremist, but I do not understand, right, I do not understand. I do not need to, if you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.

And since when are war heroes, villains? if the left wants to be all up in arms, they should talk to the very left wing senators and congressman that voted to support the war, but they conveniently forget that. Kyle was just doing what his government told him to do, including the current administration.

[kutter]

I forgot to use my sarcasm font.

Duly noted!

[Whirlin]

I am ok with anti-islam.

And since when are war heroes, villains? if the left wants to be all up in arms, they should talk to the very left wing senators and congressman that voted to support the war, but they conveniently forget that. Kyle was just doing what his government told him to do, including the current administration.
Passive racism is still racism.... Although, is Islam really a race? Is it still racism if it's religious, or is it just prejudice at that point?

Being able to quickly kill other people is not an admirable quality in today's society.
When government orders people to kill other people, left have no problem with it. When government orders people to help other people, left gets all mad about it.

[Parkbandit]

I've heard some negative press about Kyle since the movie was released. He's been quoted as saying that he truly enjoyed killing people.

Kutter... you got wooshed by Richard

Left is up in arms about it because it conveys pro-war sentiments, and conveys heroes as people who have killed the most amount of people. It's also anti-Islam, which will only breed more hate and prejudice against Islam, even if subtly.

All of that is contextual though to the story, and I don't think it should diminish from the writing in the screenplay or the acting that went on in the movie, which I've heard is spectacular.

Aren't all movies like this, anti whoever the movie's central character is fighting? All WWII movies made here are anti-Italian, anti-German and anti-Japanese.

And wouldn't a better description be anti-radical Islamic?

I'm certainly a member of that "hate" group.

[Tenlaar]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/5b/5be94bfaccd3d246a4209679ce89a58d4d94d9c242a5c68f2f 0dc84337060d41.jpg

[Parkbandit]

Passive racism is still racism.... Although, is Islam really a race? Is it still racism if it's religious, or is it just prejudice at that point?

Islam isn't a race, therefore it's not racism you are talking about.


Being able to quickly kill other people is not an admirable quality in today's society.

In a war, it's very much is... unless you don't want to win the war.


When government orders people to kill other people, left have no problem with it. When government orders people to help other people, left gets all mad about it.

wut?

[Buckwheet]

I haven't seen the movie yet. Met him at an event here where he was representing his training program and charity. He seemed like a nice enough guy, but complex.

In his book he talks about shooting a woman either and or with a child. I can't remember as it has been a while since I read it. She had a grenade or something in her hand. I don't think he was cheering her on saying "pick up that grenade so I can murder you." I feel like he would be the exact opposite, but that once he resigned himself to the fact that she was now an enemy combatant it was his job/duty/responsibility to not let her use that grenade against his fellow soldiers.

I have no problem with that. If there was soldiers or civilians saying he outright murdered civilians I think it would be a different story, but I just haven't heard/seen any evidence to suggest he did that.

[Gelston]

I've heard some negative press about Kyle since the movie was released. He's been quoted as saying that he truly enjoyed killing people.

Kutter... you got wooshed by Richard

Left is up in arms about it because it conveys pro-war sentiments, and conveys heroes as people who have killed the most amount of people. It's also anti-Islam, which will only breed more hate and prejudice against Islam, even if subtly.

All of that is contextual though to the story, and I don't think it should diminish from the writing in the screenplay or the acting that went on in the movie, which I've heard is spectacular.

I've never heard a quote that said he enjoyed killing people. I have seen "I loved what I did, I still do ... I’m not lying or exaggerating to say it was fun" which, you know, perhaps means he loves protecting his fellow troops or whatever. Still, I don't care if he killed 452345234 insurgents and relished every kill. Are we forgetting those people were the enemy? The people that were killing our men and women there and sometimes here?

[Back]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/5b/5be94bfaccd3d246a4209679ce89a58d4d94d9c242a5c68f2f 0dc84337060d41.jpg

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/48/48c8863f70dd43f40f4fa16008a83500dd7375ef638da4ce20 1552d4eba84c6f.jpg

[Tenlaar]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/48/48c8863f70dd43f40f4fa16008a83500dd7375ef638da4ce20 1552d4eba84c6f.jpg

https://i.warosu.org/data/fa/img/0086/08/1407385977627.jpg

[Back]

https://i.warosu.org/data/fa/img/0086/08/1407385977627.jpg

https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/83467764.gif?w=500&h=250

[Tenlaar]

https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/83467764.gif?w=500&h=250

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/169/d/5/fuck_yeah1_by_lord_iluvatar-d69lo2o.gif

[Androidpk]

I'll watch that movie someday :/

[Back]

I'll watch that movie someday :/

It really only resonates with a small segment of the population. For me... I grew up in Los Angeles in the 80's. Before that I spent a good deal of time in Texas. It's post Linklater Slacker's but hits the same vein with a big (well maybe not big but decent) movie budget. Quirky and cool with an awesome soundtrack by T Bone Burnett. Plus... Julianne Moore.

[Tenlaar]

It really only resonates with a small segment of the population. For me... I grew up in Los Angeles in the 80's. Before that I spent a good deal of time in Texas. It's post Linklater Slacker's but hits the same vein with a big (well maybe not big but decent) movie budget. Quirky and cool with an awesome soundtrack by T Bone Burnett. Plus... Julianne Moore.

http://i.imgur.com/J8lLmQ2.gif

[Back]

http://i.imgur.com/J8lLmQ2.gif

I'd expect that with a three page post. But for six sentences?

[Tenlaar]

I'd expect that with a three page post. But for six sentences?

http://i54.tinypic.com/2kit5s.gif

[Back]

http://i54.tinypic.com/2kit5s.gif

http://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net/image_cache/1420313038610304_animate.gif

[Tenlaar]

http://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net/image_cache/1420313038610304_animate.gif

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/4/18/19/anigif_enhanced-buzz-29085-1366327946-12.gif

[Atlanteax]

Apparently we need a Back & Tenlaar gif-chat thread.

[Tenlaar]

Apparently we need a Back & Tenlaar gif-chat thread.

The sub-forum is named Off-Topic.

http://i.imgur.com/7NvZR.gif

[Back]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyrc3nwyQ11qfjvjfo1_400.gif

[Latrinsorm]

Aren't all movies like this, anti whoever the movie's central character is fighting? All WWII movies made here are anti-Italian, anti-German and anti-Japanese.No.

[Taernath]

A lot of people (and military people included) seem to not be fans because the guy didn't tell the truth, "great soldier" or no, and it's the sort of film that makes it easy to not think deeply about the war.

For me, some of the stuff he lied about calls into question just how much else he may have lied about. Like, the shooting of looters during hurricane Katrina. Who the fuck makes up a story about something like that?

[Tisket]

I wouldn't really call him "the left." A lot of people (and military people included) seem to not be fans because the guy didn't tell the truth, "great soldier" or no, and it's the sort of film that makes it easy to not think deeply about the war. If I remember right they declare at one point that shooting a single sniper might "win the war." I think they brought that up in that review.

I am "the left" but I don't think I'm "vitriolic" about it. I encourage people to read the book, which I think gives a more complex view to think critically on, and read about the stuff he didn't tell the truth about. Just because the guy died doesn't make him immune to fact checking.

I'm reading his book now and although I'm only about 30% through it so far, I have to say, it doesn't read as an arrogant guy telling tall tales at all. He's seems genuinely self-deprecating and honest to me. I got to the part where he says his unit found chemicals with French writing on the barrels and the short passage describing it was just a bare bones, almost off the cuff recitation of facts. He wasn't trying to be dramatic, or it didn't seem so to me anyway. I don't know why people find that particular incident so hard to believe. I suppose later portions of the book might prove to be full of arrogant boasting though, I'll have to get back to you on that.

Speaking of lying...if he was going to lie, you'd think he'd have lied about his belief that Islam is evil but he's been quite honest about his feelings. But then again, I suppose it's possible that the mind of a decent human being tasked with killing people of that faith might demonize an entire religion in order to accomplish that task. I don't know...none of us know but, I'm not going to condemn him for it.

As far as the more bizarre claims made after the publication of his book, like the Jesse Ventura incident and the Katrina incident, I have no idea what would lead someone to make those claims but I wouldn't discount stress and maybe even PTSD as well as pressure to live up to his tough guy image. Who knows. I know old soldiers whose genuinely interesting wartime stories grow with each telling. I'm not going to begrudge them their remembered glory and shame on anyone who does.

[Warriorbird]

I'm reading his book now and although I'm only about 30% through it so far, I have to say, it doesn't read as an arrogant guy telling tall tales at all. He's seems genuinely self-deprecating and honest to me. I got to the part where he says his unit found chemicals with French writing on the barrels and the short passage describing it was just a bare bones, almost off the cuff recitation of facts. He wasn't trying to be dramatic, or it didn't seem so to me anyway. I don't know why people find that particular incident so hard to believe. I suppose later portions of the book might prove to be full of arrogant boasting though, I'll have to get back to you on that.

Speaking of lying...if he was going to lie, you'd think he'd have lied about his belief that Islam is evil but he's been quite honest about his feelings. But then again, I suppose it's possible that the mind of a decent human being tasked with killing people of that faith might demonize an entire religion in order to accomplish that task. I don't know...none of us know but, I'm not going to condemn him for it.

As far as the more bizarre claims made after the publication of his book, like the Jesse Ventura incident and the Katrina incident, I have no idea what would lead someone to make those claims but I wouldn't discount stress and maybe even PTSD as well as pressure to live up to his tough guy image. Who knows. I know old soldiers whose genuinely interesting wartime stories grow with each telling. I'm not going to begrudge them their remembered glory and shame on anyone who does.

You're doing what I think most people should do. I read it as part of a reading group and we had a really lively discussion. People take it different ways. People can also have wildly different takes on the Ventura stuff, the Katrina stuff, and the puzzling choice to take someone with PTSD (Or not, as the case may be) to the shooting range to "help him."

[Ker_Thwap]

Just watching an interview where he talked about punching Ventura, I thought there was something off about the guy.

Without worrying about 100% historical accuracy, is the movie good otherwise? Or is it one of those deals where the director shoves his political views down your throats, and the historical inaccuracies just kick you out of your movie watching groove? I know I get annoyed as hell when a director pauses a movie and inserts a scene or two just to promote some agenda.

I sort of doubt I'll bother to see this one, nor the Louis Zamperini Unbroken movie when it comes out. Reading the book, I just picked up on a couple of items that seemed kind of forced as if he was changing the narrative to suit the way wished it had been.

[Warriorbird]

Just watching an interview where he talked about punching Ventura, I thought there was something off about the guy.

Without worrying about 100% historical accuracy, is the movie good otherwise? Or is it one of those deals where the director shoves his political views down your throats, and the historical inaccuracies just kick you out of your movie watching groove? I know I get annoyed as hell when a director pauses a movie and inserts a scene or two just to promote some agenda.

I sort of doubt I'll bother to see this one, nor the Louis Zamperini Unbroken movie when it comes out. Reading the book, I just picked up on a couple of items that seemed kind of forced as if he was changing the narrative to suit the way wished it had been.

Without considering accuracy the film is just fine. I think it's well directed and acted.