Slip and fall settlement

[Tgo01]

About 6 weeks ago my mom slipped on a patch of ice in our Home Depot's garden center. It was a pretty large patch of ice and there were no warning signs or anything. An employee even admitted to us that she was aware of the problem several hours before hand and told someone about it and no one did anything about the situation.

Thankfully it wasn't a serious fall; she was sore for about a week but the xrays and scans and doctors didn't find anything broken and now she's feeling just fine.

Because of this I figured Home Depot would just cover my mom's medical bills and that would be it; they wouldn't even offer a settlement.

Come to find out this morning they offered to pay her medical bills plus a 3,000 dollar settlement and she took it and now she's wondering if she should have held out for more.

What do you all think? Honestly if this went to court I can't see her winning much, plus hiring a lawyer and all of that. Of course I'm assuming Home Depot would want to avoid going to court over this but at the same time they might be willing to chance my mom not willing to bring this to court.

I don't know. Like I said I'm surprised they offered her anything at all.

[Gelston]

About 6 weeks ago my mom slipped on a patch of ice in our Home Depot's garden center. It was a pretty large patch of ice and there were no warning signs or anything. An employee even admitted to us that she was aware of the problem several hours before hand and told someone about it and no one did anything about the situation.

Thankfully it wasn't a serious fall; she was sore for about a week but the xrays and scans and doctors didn't find anything broken and now she's feeling just fine.

Because of this I figured Home Depot would just cover my mom's medical bills and that would be it; they wouldn't even offer a settlement.

Come to find out this morning they offered to pay her medical bills plus a 3,000 dollar settlement and she took it and now she's wondering if she should have held out for more.

What do you all think? Honestly if this went to court I can't see her winning much, plus hiring a lawyer and all of that. Of course I'm assuming Home Depot would want to avoid going to court over this but at the same time they might be willing to chance my mom not willing to bring this to court.

I don't know. Like I said I'm surprised they offered her anything at all.

She slipped and fell on ice outside during winter huh? I don't see how this is Home Depot's fault in the first place, but I'd say take what they offered.

[JackWhisper]

Home Depot is just trying to keep it from turning into a legal battle. They could care less whether it goes to court. But one bad headline can equal a 0.5% drop in sales or more across their region, which can be catastrophic in comparison to simply buttering your mom with a bit of money.


She made out well. Holding out for more would likely have just induced court proceedings that would have been needlessly drawn out and your mother would have been in the hole money. Consider it a blessing.

[Fallen]

A bird in the hand and all that.

[Tgo01]

She slipped and fell on ice outside during winter huh? I don't see how this is Home Depot's fault in the first place, but I'd say take what they offered.

It was like a freak snow storm during Thanksgiving week. Honestly the roads never really got bad at all, it was just snow, not like ice or anything.

It looked like a giant pile of snow right outside the fence had melted and the water drained inside of the garden center then probably froze over night.

It's Home Depot's fault because it happened on their property and they didn't put up signs or put salt down or anything. After my mom fell they suddenly put signs up everywhere, salted the ice and locked the doors going out to the garden center. Also it wasn't outside, it was inside the store. It was the garden center so it's part of the store.

I also forgot to add that we talked to our lawyer about this but he doesn't do personal injury claims such as this and said he could refer us to someone who could but also said the lawyers he knows of won't even take the case unless something was broken.

[JackWhisper]

She slipped and fell on ice outside during winter huh? I don't see how this is Home Depot's fault in the first place, but I'd say take what they offered.

If you are on a store's property, and slip and fall due to something like ice, it is the store's fault. It just is. Almost every store is like that. They assume responsibility for your well being while on their property. The ice patch thing should have had WARNING signs, SLIPPERY signs, and maybe cordoning tape in a square about the effected area. Shoppers focus on shopping, not their feet. It's the store's job to guarantee safety.

[Allereli]

glad your mom is okay. Sounds like it was just bruising and she/Home Depot were really lucky. I assume the $3k was in cash and not a giftcard?

[Gelston]

If you are on a store's property, and slip and fall due to something like ice, it is the store's fault. It just is. Almost every store is like that. They assume responsibility for your well being while on their property. The ice patch thing should have had WARNING signs, SLIPPERY signs, and maybe cordoning tape in a square about the effected area. Shoppers focus on shopping, not their feet. It's the store's job to guarantee safety.

I am aware of that. I am also aware that it is stupid, especially if you are in an outside area during winter. I think the US is just a bit too sue happy.

My feelings are, unless it was something that was intentionally made hazardous, it shouldn't be their fault. I know the courts would say otherwise, but whatever.

The grocery stores here don't even bother putting up the "Caution Wet Floor" signs anymore. They are just always out now.

[Tgo01]

I assume the $3k was in cash and not a giftcard?

Heh. That's a good point. I should clarify that with my mom.

[Tgo01]

I am aware of that. I am also aware that it is stupid, especially if you are in an outside area during winter. I think the US is just a bit too sue happy.

But it's inside the store :/

The only thing that would make it outside the store is there is no roof over part of the garden center but other than that the entire garden center is walled in.

The patch of ice was even under a part of the garden center that had a roof over it.

[Gelston]

But it's inside the store :/

The only thing that would make it outside the store is there is no roof over part of the garden center but other than that the entire garden center is walled in.

The patch of ice was even under a part of the garden center that had a roof over it.

The garden center here is an outside fenced in thing. Yours is indoors?

[AnticorRifling]

About 6 weeks ago my mom slipped on a patch of ice in our Home Depot's garden center. It was a pretty large patch of ice and there were no warning signs or anything. An employee even admitted to us that she was aware of the problem several hours before hand and told someone about it and no one did anything about the situation.

Thankfully it wasn't a serious fall; she was sore for about a week but the xrays and scans and doctors didn't find anything broken and now she's feeling just fine.

Because of this I figured Home Depot would just cover my mom's medical bills and that would be it; they wouldn't even offer a settlement.

Come to find out this morning they offered to pay her medical bills plus a 3,000 dollar settlement and she took it and now she's wondering if she should have held out for more.

What do you all think? Honestly if this went to court I can't see her winning much, plus hiring a lawyer and all of that. Of course I'm assuming Home Depot would want to avoid going to court over this but at the same time they might be willing to chance my mom not willing to bring this to court.

I don't know. Like I said I'm surprised they offered her anything at all.

She should get nothing. A large patch of ice with no warning signs? Signs like cold weather, precipitation, and being outside you mean?! Putting your foot in front of your other foot is your responsibility. Does she sue herself if she falls in her garage where ice can form?

[Tgo01]

The garden center here is an outside fenced in thing. Yours is indoors?

It's like, walled in. Not fences, actual walls. Floor. Roof over a lot of it.


She should get nothing. A large patch of ice with no warning signs? Signs like cold weather, precipitation, and being outside you mean?! Putting your foot in front of your other foot is your responsibility.

Again it was inside. It would be one thing if the entire garden center were covered in snow or ice or something but that wasn't the case at all. The garden center was actually in pretty good shape except apparently this one section where as I said it looked like they piled up snow right outside the entrance gate then the snow had melted and drained into the garden center.

[Allereli]

Heh. That's a good point. I should clarify that with my mom.

also did she sign anything about claims for potential future related dr bills? You should definitely review that, too.

Overall though, I think $3k cash and all related medical expenses is a fair settlement

[Tgo01]

also did she sign anything about claims for potential future related dr bills? You should definitely review that, too.

Overall though, I think $3k cash and all related medical expenses is a fair settlement

She hasn't signed anything yet.

[Gelston]

It's like, walled in. Not fences, actual walls. Floor. Roof over a lot of it.



Again it was inside. It would be one thing if the entire garden center were covered in snow or ice or something but that wasn't the case at all. The garden center was actually in pretty good shape except apparently this one section where as I said it looked like they piled up snow right outside the entrance gate then the snow had melted and drained into the garden center.

The way you described it, I'd not really consider it to be "indoors". It has walls, but the roof doeesn't completely cover it? It isn't AC'd/heated either? The door that leads to outside, is it a real door or a fence? Do you like jalapenos on your pizza?

[AnticorRifling]

It's like, walled in. Not fences, actual walls. Floor. Roof over a lot of it.



Again it was inside. It would be one thing if the entire garden center were covered in snow or ice or something but that wasn't the case at all. The garden center was actually in pretty good shape except apparently this one section where as I said it looked like they piled up snow right outside the entrance gate then the snow had melted and drained into the garden center.

Garden center is open air, she was under an awning, outside. You probably shouldn't let her sled, Obama was right.

[Gelston]

http://www.growswitch.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Home-Depot-Garden-Centers-stop-neonics.jpg

Your garden center doesn't look like that?

[Ker_Thwap]

But it's inside the store :/

The only thing that would make it outside the store is there is no roof over part of the garden center but other than that the entire garden center is walled in.

The patch of ice was even under a part of the garden center that had a roof over it.

Is she made whole by the settlement? Doctor's bills paid? No long term health concerns? A bonus $3,000 for her time?

Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Or, she can involve attorneys who will want to get paid as well, go through a lot more time, effort and expenses making crap up, seeing specialists, and generally making a spectacle of herself for the pretend purpose of teaching them a lesson.

[Johnny Five]

It doesn't matter at all. If you are on someone's property, and slip and break your damn leg, the owner of that property's home insurance is going to pay for it. Same as if my car is parked in a street, and your tree decides to die and fall over on my car. You will STILL be paying for it. Cause the tree was on YOUR property.

[Furryrat]

She hasn't signed anything yet.

If the $3000 was paid by check and your mother signed and cashed it, there most certainly is legal evidence of a settlement being offered and accepted. It would likely be an uphill battle to now attempt to seek more, especially if no new injuries or costs have arisen due to the fall.

[Gelston]

Is she made whole by the settlement? Doctor's bills paid? No long term health concerns? A bonus $3,000 for her time?

Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Or, she can involve attorneys who will want to get paid as well, go through a lot more time, effort and expenses making crap up, seeing specialists, and generally making a spectacle of herself for the pretend purpose of teaching them a lesson.

Yeah, I think suing would be completely stupid. Paying all medical bills and 3 grand seems perfectly legit to me.

[rolfard]

Accepting a settlement check may or may not release the store from further liability. Check your local insurance statutes. If she hasn't cashed the check hold off until you are satisfied.

[Gelston]

It doesn't matter at all. If you are on someone's property, and slip and break your damn leg, the owner of that property's home insurance is going to pay for it. Same as if my car is parked in a street, and your tree decides to die and fall over on my car. You will STILL be paying for it. Cause the tree was on YOUR property.

Nobody is saying that. We are saying that they shouldn't be liable. At the very beginning I said take what they offered.

also

http://www.newyorkpersonalinjuryattorneyblog.com/uploaded_images/FallOnIce-738120.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

I am aware of that. I am also aware that it is stupid, especially if you are in an outside area during winter. I think the US is just a bit too sue happy.

My feelings are, unless it was something that was intentionally made hazardous, it shouldn't be their fault. I know the courts would say otherwise, but whatever.

The grocery stores here don't even bother putting up the "Caution Wet Floor" signs anymore. They are just always out now.You think the concept of negligence is stupid?

[Gelston]

You think the concept of negligence is stupid?

No, I don't think they are negligent.

[Atlanteax]

Is she made whole by the settlement? Doctor's bills paid? No long term health concerns? A bonus $3,000 for her time?

Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Or, she can involve attorneys who will want to get paid as well, go through a lot more time, effort and expenses making crap up, seeing specialists, and generally making a spectacle of herself for the pretend purpose of teaching them a lesson.

Tgo01, your mother is a greedy corrupt bitch if she tries to sue for more (and so would you, if you encourage her to).

[Johnny Five]

Nobody is saying that. We are saying that they shouldn't be liable. At the very beginning I said take what they offered.


They are liable to make their property safe no matter WHERE you are. Otherwise, why bother with parking spots, stop signs, and any of that shit outside, lets just zoo it up.

[Gelston]

They are liable to make their property safe no matter WHERE you are. Otherwise, why bother with parking spots, stop signs, and any of that shit outside, lets just zoo it up.

I don't see the purpose of you bringing out the "no matter WHERE you are". thing. I was point out it is outside because... Common sense. Winter and wetness = ice.

If they had an ice machine inside the heated store and were lathering the aisles with that and someone slipped, yeah, I'd consider that negligence.

[Ker_Thwap]

Oh, and my local Lowes just locks down the garden center for the winter. It's kind of a pain in the ass if you want to buy gardening stuff in advance of the warm weather. I blame people who don't understand the whole water/cold/slippery equation.

[Peppwyn]

And this is yet another thing wrong with the United States ... slip and fall? Sue for it! Someone bumps into you? Sue for assault! Someone tells you how stupid you are? Sue for defamation! Sue for everything!!!!!!

[Johnny Five]

Because I'm sure you have never fell in winter, ever.

I don't think you should have to do a settlement, I agree that shit is dumb. But the medical bills at least yes.

[AnticorRifling]

You think the concept of negligence is stupid?

Not at all, and not watching where you're walking is most definitely negligence on Tgo01's mother's part. I agree with you Latrin, well done.

[Gelston]

Because I'm sure you have never fell in winter, ever.

I've never slipped on ice no. And if I did, I have insurance. I wouldn't even entertain the notion of suing a store just because I was on its property.

[Allereli]

I've never slipped on ice no. And if I did, I have insurance. I wouldn't even entertain the notion of suing a store just because I was on its property.

your insurance company would.

[Gelston]

your insurance company would.

I am not my insurance company. Also, I'm insured through the Government... I don't think they would.

[Johnny Five]

I've never slipped on ice no. And if I did, I have insurance. I wouldn't even entertain the notion of suing a store just because I was on its property.

Aren't you from the Louisiana? That might help with never ever slipping on ice. Come spend 10 years in MN and I bet you'll bust your ass a few times.

[Atlanteax]

Oh, and my local Lowes just locks down the garden center for the winter. It's kind of a pain in the ass if you want to buy gardening stuff in advance of the warm weather. I blame people who don't understand the whole water/cold/slippery equation.

Do not forget to blame the handout(s) recipients who *intentionally try to get hurt* for a 'payday'.

[AnticorRifling]

I am not my insurance company.

But if you use your insurance they are going to sue the property holder to reclaim what they had to pay out to you for your injuries because there is no possible way your YEARS of premiums can cover a broken bone.

[Gelston]

Aren't you from the Louisiana? That might help with never ever slipping on ice. Come spend 10 years in MN and I bet you'll bust your ass a few times.

Why would I go up to that garbage part of the country?

[AnticorRifling]

Why would I go up to that garbage part of the country?

No LSU is a pretty big selling point for one.

[Johnny Five]

Why would I go up to that garbage part of the country?

Because your retarded ass claim of "I never slip on ice", but live in an area that never gets ice. DUR DUR DUR

[AnticorRifling]

Because your retarded ass claim of "I never slip on ice", but live in an area that never gets ice. DUR DUR DUR

That's actually not a retarded ass claim so much as truth and not really a reason to move.

[Johnny Five]

That's actually not a retarded ass claim so much as truth and not really a reason to move.

Well then, I guess I was never dumb enough to live in an area with hurricanes. So people that build their houses in areas with hurricanes shouldn't be able to get any help. Because they knew that shit happens. Like you know, ice on the ground.

[Gelston]

Well then, I guess I was never dumb enough to live in an area with hurricanes. So people that build their houses in areas with hurricanes shouldn't be able to get any help. Because they knew that shit happens. Like you know, ice on the ground.

I've never been hit by a hurricane, nor had damage from one.

[Ker_Thwap]

I've never slipped on ice no. And if I did, I have insurance. I wouldn't even entertain the notion of suing a store just because I was on its property.

I used to have cat like kick ass balance. Then around age 43ish, I slipped for the first time on ice when I was simply walking. I was very sad.

[Johnny Five]

I've never been hit by a hurricane, nor had damage from one.

Man, I just have to end this conversation like I do with Back. Good day sir. GOOD DAY!

[Gelston]

Man, I just have to end this conversation like I do with Back. Good day sir. GOOD DAY!

I'll end it like I do with Back too!

You're a fucking retard.

[Tgo01]

I used to have cat like kick ass balance. Then around age 43ish, I slipped for the first time on ice when I was simply walking. I was very sad.

Yeah really. My mom is almost 70 and I could hardly tell it was ice even after my mom slipped on it. The floor was black and the ice was almost complety transparent.

[Tgo01]

And this is yet another thing wrong with the United States ... slip and fall? Sue for it!

Well, yeah. She didn't slip and fall because she's clumsy, she slipped and fell because Home Depot couldn't be bothered to salt the floor of their store.

Also I was wrong, my mom is supposed to pay her own medical bills out of the 3000 dollars. She just talked to the lady today so no check or paperwork or anything yet.

[Tgo01]

Tgo01, your mother is a greedy corrupt bitch if she tries to sue for more (and so would you, if you encourage her to).

:O

[Taernath]

Well, yeah. She didn't slip and fall because she's clumsy, she slipped and fell because Home Depot couldn't be bothered to salt the floor of their store.

Also I was wrong, my mom is supposed to pay her own medical bills out of the 3000 dollars. She just talked to the lady today so no check or paperwork or anything yet.

How much do her medical expenses eat into that 3k? I think we should all congregate on that Home Depot and do a synchronized fall.

[Gelston]

How much do her medical expenses eat into that 3k? I think we should all congregate on that Home Depot and do a synchronized fall.

A flash fall?

[Atlanteax]

Well, yeah. She didn't slip and fall because she's clumsy, she slipped and fell because Home Depot couldn't be bothered to salt the floor of their store.

Also I was wrong, my mom is supposed to pay her own medical bills out of the 3000 dollars. She just talked to the lady today so no check or paperwork or anything yet.

You should had gotten all your facts together before starting this thread.

If it was *not* exposed to external weather, and was completely indoors ... ideally Home Depot covers the (hopefully small amount) medical expenses (delayed activity in warnings/salting).

[Tgo01]

How much do her medical expenses eat into that 3k? I think we should all congregate on that Home Depot and do a synchronized fall.

I'm not sure. I think at least half.

Also I agree! Simultaneous fall!

[Tgo01]

You should had gotten all your facts together before starting this thread.

If it was *not* exposed to external weather, and was completely indoors ... ideally Home Depot covers the (hopefully small amount) medical expenses (delayed activity in warnings/salting).

It is exposed to outside weather but the par she fell at has a roof over it. No snow was anywhere near it.

[Taernath]

I'm not sure. I think at least half.

Also I agree! Simultaneous fall!

Eh, still, no serious injuries + $1.5k

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/cash-money-blake-llws.jpg

[Peppwyn]

I could see suing if it was due to Home Depot putting the ice there ... but they didn't. Mother nature did. Everyone knows water + cold = ice ... be careful!

[Gelston]

I could see suing if it was due to Home Depot putting the ice there ... but they didn't. Mother nature did. Everyone knows water + cold = ice ... be careful!

IT WAS ME WHO PUT THE ICE THERE. I break into stores at night and spray water all over the garden center so that it freezes.

[AnticorRifling]

It is exposed to outside weather but the par she fell at has a roof over it. No snow was anywhere near it.

Awning. She was outside.

[AnticorRifling]

I could see suing if it was due to Home Depot putting the ice there ... but they didn't. Mother nature did. Everyone knows water + cold = ice ... be careful!

No way they need to employ one person per customer to walk around and point out common sense shit (Sir, you're outside in winter maybe watch where you walk. Ma'am you're trying to pull down a 300 lbs item by yourself, maybe ask for help. Sir, that fire, well that fire is hot, don't touch it.).

[Allereli]

No way they need to employ one person per customer to walk around and point out common sense shit (Sir, you're outside in winter maybe watch where you walk. Ma'am you're trying to pull down a 300 lbs item by yourself, maybe ask for help. Sir, that fire, well that fire is hot, don't touch it.).

the employee pointed out she saw black ice, reported it, and the store didn't put a sign on the patch or attempt to salt it. I hope you have that employee's name.

Black ice is really not obvious no matter how careful you are

[AnticorRifling]

That employee will be fired. That's the ticket! Fuck everyone else no way you should be responsible for walking!

[Tgo01]

We do have the emoloyee's name and my mom mentioned this to the case worker from Home Depot of course dismissed that as irrelevant.

Also if we want to get technical it wasn't winter yet.

[Wrathbringer]

We do have the emoloyee's name and my mom mentioned this to the case worker from Home Depot of course dismissed that as irrelevant.

Also if we want to get technical it wasn't winter yet.

Doesn't obamacare cover this?

[Gizmo]

That employee will be fired. That's the ticket! Fuck everyone else no way you should be responsible for walking!

Hey, she did get a bruise!

[Taernath]

We do have the emoloyee's name and my mom mentioned this to the case worker from Home Depot of course dismissed that as irrelevant.

Also if we want to get technical it wasn't winter yet.

Say the employee pushed her! That's the ticket to the big bucks.

[Tgo01]

Doesn't obamacare cover this?

Insurance companies expect to get paid back if you get a settlement.

Also did my mom beat you all in an arm wrestling contest or something? :O


Say the employee pushed her! That's the ticket to the big bucks.

Now we're talking!

[AnticorRifling]

We do have the emoloyee's name and my mom mentioned this to the case worker from Home Depot of course dismissed that as irrelevant.

Also if we want to get technical it wasn't winter yet.

If we want to get technical your mom wasn't paying attention and fell over.

When my kid was running around, tripped, and busted his face on a table at school they called me in a panic. I took him to our Dr and got him stitched up. We paid for the stitches because oddly enough it's not someone else's fault that my child failed at right foot left foot.

[AnticorRifling]

Insurance companies expect to get paid back if you get a settlement.

Also did my mom beat you all in an arm wrestling contest or something? :O



Now we're talking!
How do they get their money back? By raising prices on premiums or by suing companies who in turn raise prices on their items to cover bullshit lawsuits. Have your mom send me a check. Thanks.

[Tgo01]

If we want to get technical your mom wasn't paying attention and fell over.

Probably. If we want to get even more technical Home Depot wasn't paying attention to the safety of their customers when they didn't bother to close off the area or put down salt.

If there was a 10 foot hole in the ground would we all still be defending Home Depot or would we expect Home Depot to do something about the 10 foot hole in the ground?

What if it was a 3 year old kid?


When my kid was running around, tripped, and busted his face on a table at school they called me in a panic. I took him to our Dr and got him stitched up. We paid for the stitches because oddly enough it's not someone else's fault that my child failed at right foot left foot.

Well yeah, if my mom had been running around outside in the snow I would expect Home Depot wouldn't have even humored her with a 3000 dollar settlement.

I think my mom would love if she could run around in the snow.

[Gelston]

Did your mom at least say "Thanks Obama" when she slipped?

[Tgo01]

How do they get their money back? By raising prices on premiums or by suing companies who in turn raise prices on their items to cover bullshit lawsuits. Have your mom send me a check. Thanks.

They get their money back from the person who got injured and received a settlement.

Ideally in this case they should get paid back from Home Depot as well.

I suppose my mom could just lie and not tell her insurance company about a settlement but I have a feeling Home Depot is going to tell them.

[Gelston]

Probably. If we want to get even more technical Home Depot wasn't paying attention to the safety of their customers when they didn't bother to close off the area or put down salt.

If there was a 10 foot hole in the ground would we all still be defending Home Depot or would we expect Home Depot to do something about the 10 foot hole in the ground?

What if it was a 3 year old kid?



Well yeah, if my mom had been running around outside in the snow I would expect Home Depot wouldn't have even humored her with a 3000 dollar settlement.

I think my mom would love if she could run around in the snow.

If there was a 10 foot hole in the ground, I'd hope you'd have the common sense not to go try to walk over it.

[Tgo01]

If there was a 10 foot hole in the ground, I'd hope you'd have the common sense not to go try to walk over it.

True. True.

But would it be Home Depot's fault if I did walk into the hole? At what point do we hold businesses responsible? Only when their employee physically pushes someone into the hole? And even then I suppose the argument could be "Well if you would have just stayed at least 50 feet away from the hole the employee couldn't have pushed you into it..."

[AnticorRifling]

Probably. If we want to get even more technical Home Depot wasn't paying attention to the safety of their customers when they didn't bother to close off the area or put down salt.

If there was a 10 foot hole in the ground would we all still be defending Home Depot or would we expect Home Depot to do something about the 10 foot hole in the ground?

What if it was a 3 year old kid?



Well yeah, if my mom had been running around outside in the snow I would expect Home Depot wouldn't have even humored her with a 3000 dollar settlement.

I think my mom would love if she could run around in the snow.

Probably. If we want to get even more technical your mother expects everyone else to pay attention so she doesn't have to because she doesn't care about her own safety enough to right foot left foot outside during icy conditions.

I need more dimensions, ten foot wide by ten foot long, ten foot deep, what are we talking here?

He was 5 at the time. If he was 3 I'd do the exact same, the child failed right foot left foot, shit happens, not every event is a chance to punch your victim card like you're shooting for that big payout after 12 punches and 3 drink purchases.

He failed at right foot left foot, your mom failed at right foot left foot. Same shit.

My kids do love running around in the snow, they fall over, I laugh, then I sue myself because 'murica.

[Wrathbringer]

If there was a 10 foot hole in the ground, I'd hope you'd have the common sense not to go try to walk over it.

But if it were a black hole, it would be harder to see.

[AnticorRifling]

True. True.

But would it be Home Depot's fault if I did walk into the hole? At what point do we hold businesses responsible? Only when their employee physically pushes someone into the hole? And even then I suppose the argument could be "Well if you would have just stayed at least 50 feet away from the hole the employee couldn't have pushed you into it..."

10 foot holes are the exact same as ice, outside, during winter. I like your style.

[Tgo01]

I need more dimensions, ten foot wide by ten foot long, ten foot deep, what are we talking here?

10 feet by 10 feet by 10 feet.


He was 5 at the time. If he was 3 I'd do the exact same, the child failed right foot left foot, shit happens, not every event is a chance to punch your victim card like you're shooting for that big payout after 12 punches and 3 drink purchases.

He failed at right foot left foot, your mom failed at right foot left foot. Same shit.

I don't know the exact situation of your child's fall but it doesn't sound like the exact same situation.

He was running around and tripped and fell.

My mom was walking around and slipped on ice that the store admitted they knew about.

Would you feel the same way if the school had an extension cord running along the middle of the play ground and your child tripped over the cord? I'm sure you still wouldn't have sued or anything but something tells me you wouldn't think it was entirely your son's fault he fell.

[Taernath]

Tgo better make sure his mom doesn't shop at Anticor's store. He'd probably come over and berate her if she got hurt.

"What's the matter lady? Right foot left foot too hard for you? You gonna cry?"

[EasternBrand]

Everyone should sue everyone else. That way the lawyers get enriched, and when you really think about it, doesn't that enrich us all?

[Gelston]

Tgo better make sure his mom doesn't shop at Anticor or Gelston's stores. They'd probably come over and berate her if she got hurt.

I'd also post the video on youtube for extra laughs.

[Tgo01]

How do they get their money back? By raising prices on premiums or by suing companies who in turn raise prices on their items to cover bullshit lawsuits. Have your mom send me a check. Thanks.

I don't understand the anger here.

Health insurance covers accidents too. Yes even accidents from people slipping and falling.

When your son fell did you pay for the doctor's visit out of your own pocket out of principle? Or did you use your insurance? If it's the latter can you send me a check?

[Tgo01]

I could see suing if it was due to Home Depot putting the ice there ... but they didn't. Mother nature did. Everyone knows water + cold = ice ... be careful!

Mother nature also produces high winds but I would call my neighbor negligent if they left their lawn furniture outside when the winds whipped up to 80 MPH and the lawn furniture came flying through my windows.

[AnticorRifling]

I don't understand the anger here.

Health insurance covers accidents too. Yes even accidents from people slipping and falling.

When your son fell did you pay for the doctor's visit out of your own pocket out of principle? Or did you use your insurance? If it's the latter can you send me a check?

Out of pocket.

[AnticorRifling]

10 feet by 10 feet by 10 feet.



I don't know the exact situation of your child's fall but it doesn't sound like the exact same situation.

He was running around and tripped and fell.

My mom was walking around and slipped on ice that the store admitted they knew about.

Would you feel the same way if the school had an extension cord running along the middle of the play ground and your child tripped over the cord? I'm sure you still wouldn't have sued or anything but something tells me you wouldn't think it was entirely your son's fault he fell.

He was inside, tripped on the carpet, turfed it into a table. The school admitted they knew what gravity, carpets, and tables were.

I wouldn't feel different if during extension cord season an extension cord was on the ground as a result of the correct weather for extension cords to form. I would tell my kid to pay attention.

[Gelston]

I wouldn't feel different if during extension cord season an extension cord was on the ground as a result of the correct weather for extension cords to form. I would tell my kid to pay attention.

rofl, wtf.

[Johnny Five]

Mother nature also produces high winds but I would call my neighbor negligent if they left their lawn furniture outside when the winds whipped up to 80 MPH and the lawn furniture came flying through my windows.

Apparently by the logic here, you should have boarded up your windows before the 80 MPH winds. www.weatherchannel.com!!!!!

[Tgo01]

He was inside, tripped on the carpet, turfed it into a table. The school admitted they knew what gravity, carpets, and tables were.

I wouldn't feel different if during extension cord season an extension cord was on the ground as a result of the correct weather for extension cords to form. I would tell my kid to pay attention.

So even if the school had ran an extension cord along the area where they know kids run and play and your kid tripped over the cord you still wouldn't find the school at fault?

I guess we can save ourselves some back and forth here; would you ever find the school at fault for your kid tripping and falling?


Apparently by the logic here, you should have boarded up your windows before the 80 MPH winds. www.weatherchannel.com!!!!!

:(

[AnticorRifling]

Apparently by the logic here, you should have boarded up your windows before the 80 MPH winds. www.weatherchannel.com!!!!!

No way bro, other people have to do shit, not him he's the victim.

[Tgo01]

Out of pocket.

And what if your son's fall was so serious it ended up costing 30k in medical bills, would you still have paid it all out of pocket out of principle?

[AnticorRifling]

And what if your son's fall was so serious it ended up costing 30k in medical bills, would you still have paid it all out of pocket out of principle?

I would have used my insurance, I would not seek compensation outside of the cost of fixing his shit. That's the rub. Getting more money than what it takes to fix what's broken. That or I'd just dump him in a magical 10x10x10 hole that appears when convenient at Home Depot.

[AnticorRifling]

So even if the school had ran an extension cord along the area where they know kids run and play and your kid tripped over the cord you still wouldn't find the school at fault?

I guess we can save ourselves some back and forth here; would you ever find the school at fault for your kid tripping and falling?



:(

Tripping and falling...no.

[Ker_Thwap]

They seem to be offering a "tort law" type of settlement, lower burden of proof, don't have to prove criminal negligence. The solution is to right the wrong, and no one is supposed to be enriched.

Push for more and they'll just let the court deal with it. The court is going to ask for a higher burden of proof, discuss shared negligence, both sides will have to pay for experts to shill for them. Could even end up losing and ending up in debt.

... and no, I'm not suggesting you or your mom is being greedy. My advice is more pragmatic.

[Tgo01]

I would have used my insurance

Even though your son clearly failed at left root/right foot?


Tripping and falling...no.

Let's go back to extension cord season and the school had half a dozen extension cords running right down the middle of the room the kids played in. Your son tripped and fell over one of these extension cords and ended up falling onto a skateboard that was perched (purposefully) precariously at the top of a very steep hill (this is a weird room he's in) and he went careening down this hill and ended up smashing his head into a brick wall with a large bulls eye painted on it by the staff of the school and your son ended up permanently disabled?

Just curious what it takes to be able to assign blame to someone else for a trip and fall.


They seem to be offering a "tort law" type of settlement, lower burden of proof, don't have to prove criminal negligence. The solution is to right the wrong, and no one is supposed to be enriched.

Push for more and they'll just let the court deal with it. The court is going to ask for a higher burden of proof, discuss shared negligence, both sides will have to pay for experts to shill for them. Could even end up losing and ending up in debt.

... and no, I'm not suggesting you or your mom is being greedy. My advice is more pragmatic.

I don't think my mom has any plans to sue, she was just curious if she could have gotten them to settle for more without going to the courts. I told her if she pushed them too much they might just say forget it and sue them.

[waywardgs]

Since when is it considered stupid to expect a public business to take care of their property? Particularly during winter?

[AnticorRifling]

Even though your son clearly failed at left root/right foot?



Let's go back to extension cord season and the school had half a dozen extension cords running right down the middle of the room the kids played in. Your son tripped and fell over one of these extension cords and ended up falling onto a skateboard that was perched (purposefully) precariously at the top of a very steep hill (this is a weird room he's in) and he went careening down this hill and ended up smashing his head into a brick wall with a large bulls eye painted on it by the staff of the school and your son ended up permanently disabled?

Just curious what it takes to be able to assign blame to someone else for a trip and fall.





It would take that exact scenario. Anything less than that and blame cannot be assigned to anyone but the person who forgot gravity was a thing.

[AnticorRifling]

Since when is it considered stupid to expect a public business to take care of their property? Particularly during winter?

No one said it was stupid to expect a public business to take care of their property. Particularly during winter.

[waywardgs]

No one said it was stupid to expect a public business to take care of their property. Particularly during winter.

And when they neglect to do so, and someone gets hurt, that's... Negligence. That's how our legal system is set up. You can talk about personal responsibility till you're blue in the face, but why shouldn't the store face the same criticism? Hell, someone even called Tgo's mom a bitch. Wtf?

[EasternBrand]

No way bro, other people have to do shit, not him he's the victim.

This makes no sense. The point of negligence law is precisely to ensure that people take personal responsibility, and to shift costs if they don't. It is entirely foreseeable that leaving your lawn chair outside during a hurricane is going to cause damage to someone else's property, and if you fail reasonably to secure it you should pay for the damage it does cause. It may also be entirely foreseeable that shit will come crashing through your window, so maybe failing to board them should be grounds for reducing the amount of damages you can collect, but it seems to me that the onus is greater on the person leaving their stuff outside to be whipped around by the wind. And what if, instead of destroying a window, the lawn chair smashed into the siding and created a monster dent in the house? Should we force people to bubble-wrap their homes too?

[waywardgs]

It would take that exact scenario. Anything less than that and blame cannot be assigned to anyone but the person who forgot gravity was a thing.

Yeah... The law disagrees with you.

[AnticorRifling]

Yeah... The law disagrees with you.

Clearly the law hasn't been presented that scenario.

[Latrinsorm]

like you're shooting for that big payout after 12 punches and 3 drink purchases.I like to think of myself as someone who's pretty well at English, but you've lost me here.
Everyone should sue everyone else. That way the lawyers get enriched, and when you really think about it, doesn't that enrich us all?It's the quintessential case of trickle down economics.

The phrase trickle down economics is not to be construed as a promise or guarantee of wealth dripping, trickling, or otherwise precipitating in whole or in part to parties of any part insofar as said parties have not demonstrated their right to party, real or implied. Void where prohibited or otherwise. This means you, Obama.

[EasternBrand]

Clearly the law hasn't been presented that scenario.

Sure it has!

"A passenger carrying a package, while hurrying to catch and board a moving LIRR train, appeared to two of the railroad's (Defendant's) employees to be falling. The employees were guards, one of whom was located on the car, the other of whom was located on the platform. The guard on the car attempted to pull the passenger into the car and the guard on the platform attempted to push him into the car from behind.

The guards' efforts to aid the passenger caused the passenger to drop the package he was holding onto the rails. Unbeknownst to the guards, the package, which was approximately 15 inches long and wrapped in newspaper, contained fireworks, and the package exploded when it hit the rails. The shock reportedly knocked down scales at the other end of the platform (although later accounts suggest that a panicking bystander may have upset the scale), which injured Mrs. Helen Palsgraf (Plaintiff).

Palsgraf sued the railroad, claiming her injury resulted from negligent acts of the employee."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palsgraf_v._Long_Island_Railroad_Co.

Although ultimately it was determined that the Railroad was not at fault because the harm done was not reasonably foreseeable. It's pretty clear that harm coming from laying out an extension cord in a room where children are running, or failing to clear the ice from a well-trod area after you've been put on notice, is reasonably foreseeable.

[AnticorRifling]

I like to think of myself as someone who's pretty well at English, but you've lost me here.It's the quintessential case of trickle down economics.

The phrase trickle down economics is not to be construed as a promise or guarantee of wealth dripping, trickling, or otherwise precipitating in whole or in part to parties of any part insofar as said parties have not demonstrated their right to party, real or implied. Void where prohibited or otherwise. This means you, Obama.

I can't be bothered to make sense I'm supposed to be paying attention to this conference call that's been going on for 3 hours.

[Parkbandit]

Well yeah, if my mom had been running around outside in the snow I would expect Home Depot wouldn't have even humored her with a 3000 dollar settlement.

I think my mom would love if she could run around in the snow.

Big companies call that a cost of doing business. It's cheaper to just give you $3000 and be done with it than to worry about litigation and having to go to court over this.

And yes, your mom will have to sign something that states she will hold harmless Home Depot for this incident.

And I'm with Anticor on stuff like this... the only thing it does is increase the price of goods and services. Had your mom fallen on black ice on a sidewalk on her property, she would go to the doctor and pay for it via her insurance. But because it happened in a big story like Home Depot, she's now "entitled" to money for it.

It's retarded.

[Tgo01]

Had your mom fallen on black ice on a sidewalk on her property, she would go to the doctor and pay for it via her insurance. But because it happened in a big story like Home Depot, she's now "entitled" to money for it.

Then again if she invited an employee from Home Depot to deliver something to her house and he slipped on black ice he would be entitled to sue.

At the very least Home Depot should pay for my mom's medical bills. That's the main thing she wanted and the only thing I thought she would get out of it.

[waywardgs]

If she slipped on black ice on her property it would be because she failed to care for her property to ensure a reasonably safe environment. Same with Home Depot. Actually more so, because Home Depot is open to the public. There's nothing new here. This is a well-trodden field of law. Businesses need to take care of their shit if they want to be open to the public. That's a responsible business practice.

[Allereli]

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/01/ask-the-attorney-phone-bank-from-5-6-30-p-m--110599.html

free legal advice until 6:30 pm est

[Parkbandit]

Then again if an employee from Home Depot came to our house and slipped on black ice he would be entitled to sue.

No they wouldn't.

eta: Actually, I'll take that back.. they would be "entitled to sue" because anyone could sue anyone for anything. 'Merica...


At the very least Home Depot should pay for my mom's medical bills. That's the main thing she wanted and the only thing I thought she would get out of it.

Doesn't she have insurance?

[Tgo01]

Doesn't she have insurance?

Yes but why should the insurance company pay for it when it's Home Depot's fault.

Likewise if I'm driving like a maniac on icy roads and end up running into 5 cars why should those peoples' insurance companies pay for the damage when I'm the one at fault.

[EasternBrand]

No they wouldn't.

eta: Actually, I'll take that back.. they would be "entitled to sue" because anyone could sue anyone for anything. 'Merica...

He might even be "entitled to win." I don't know what your theory is here, but premises liability is a real thing, and people who you invite onto your property have a reasonable expectation of not getting hurt because of your negligence.

[waywardgs]

The right to sue and have those cases litigated in court is a fundamentally important part of the legal system. It's one of the reasons our country is able to have the freedoms and success it does. That said, there are frivolous lawsuits that gum up the works- but it would be a terrible idea to throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak, despite how offended you are when you hear about silly lawsuits.

[Buckwheet]

Meter reader stepped in a soft spot in my yard and fractured his ankle.

He sued and my insurance paid.

No different here.

[Parkbandit]

He might even be "entitled to win." I don't know what your theory is here, but premises liability is a real thing, and people who you invite onto your property have a reasonable expectation of not getting hurt because of your negligence.

Oh, I realize it's how we do business in this country.

I simply don't agree with it. It makes real negligence cases look frivolous.

[Parkbandit]

Yes but why should the insurance company pay for it when it's Home Depot's fault.

Likewise if I'm driving like a maniac on icy roads and end up running into 5 cars why should those peoples' insurance companies pay for the damage when I'm the one at fault.

And here's where we are difference. I don't see Home Depot as "driving down the road like a maniac" in the situation you gave.

You do.

[Tgo01]

And here's where we are difference. I don't see Home Depot as "driving down the road like a maniac" in the situation you gave.

You do.

Even if I were driving as carefully as I could be yet I still ended up sliding into 5 cars why should those people's insurance company pay for something that is obviously my fault?

[Jarvan]

I don't see the purpose of you bringing out the "no matter WHERE you are". thing. I was point out it is outside because... Common sense. Winter and wetness = ice.

If they had an ice machine inside the heated store and were lathering the aisles with that and someone slipped, yeah, I'd consider that negligence.

By Your logic tho, a store wouldn't have to shovel or put salt down on their parking lot at all during the winter. I mean, fuck it. It's winter, winter has ice, it's not THEIR Fault it's winter.

I think you fail to realize that common sense wise.. people don't go to a store and expect to have to navigate a mine field. Also.. if common sense would tell us anything... that old lady wouldn't have won a lawsuit over HOT coffee.

[waywardgs]

By Your logic tho, a store wouldn't have to shovel or put salt down on their parking lot at all during the winter. I mean, fuck it. It's winter, winter has ice, it's not THEIR Fault it's winter.

I think you fail to realize that common sense wise.. people don't go to a store and expect to have to navigate a mine field. Also.. if common sense would tell us anything... that old lady wouldn't have won a lawsuit over HOT coffee.

You never saw the pictures, obviously. It was gruesome.

[Gelston]

By Your logic tho, a store wouldn't have to shovel or put salt down on their parking lot at all during the winter. I mean, fuck it. It's winter, winter has ice, it's not THEIR Fault it's winter.

I think you fail to realize that common sense wise.. people don't go to a store and expect to have to navigate a mine field. Also.. if common sense would tell us anything... that old lady wouldn't have won a lawsuit over HOT coffee.

If you want to attract customers, it is probably better to not have snow filled parking lots.

If it is bad enough that a parking lot gets that way though, I imagine the city streets are probably worse and you shouldn't be driving.

ONE hot coffee lawsuit went through, the first one. Woman got some good money. Later ones failed. Someone tried the same thing in the UK, it also failed. The coffee lawsuit actually is considered "the poster child of excessive lawsuits". That shit will never work again, and it hasn't since. Hell, McDonalds still serves coffee at the EXACT SAME temperature that they did before and during the lawsuit.

[JackWhisper]

See? Black Ice is fuckin dangerous. Jeezus.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efiW2K8gASM

[Atlanteax]

Yea, Tgo01's mom got robbed by black ice.

[Warriorbird]

ONE hot coffee lawsuit went through, the first one. Woman got some good money. Later ones failed. Someone tried the same thing in the UK, it also failed. The coffee lawsuit actually is considered "the poster child of excessive lawsuits". That shit will never work again, and it hasn't since. Hell, McDonalds still serves coffee at the EXACT SAME temperature that they did before and during the lawsuit.

It had a ripple effect though, in spite of McDonalds. Many other places reduced the temperature of their coffee and went with actually less heat efficient containers (McDonalds sometimes included.)

[subzero]

She slipped and fell on ice outside during winter huh? I don't see how this is Home Depot's fault in the first place, but I'd say take what they offered.

Welcome to America.

[subzero]

You think the concept of negligence is stupid?

I'd say it's more negligent to walk on a big patch of ice, but hey, I sorta like self-accountability rather than looking for someone to sue any time something happens to you.

[Tenlaar]

I'd say it's more negligent to walk on a big patch of ice, but hey, I sorta like self-accountability rather than looking for someone to sue any time something happens to you.

Welcome to a week ago?

[Tgo01]

I don't think people should be able to blindly walk around and not expect to fall or run into anything and blame someone else but now that you mention blind...should home depot not keep their store safe for the literally blind people?

Also I believe businesses should make their property as safe as possible, even if people should be moving about as carefully as possible.

Whenever I have an extension cord running along the floor of my house for any reason I cover it with a rug or towel until I remove the extension cord, just to make sure no on trips over it.

Let's face it, how often are you constantly staring at the ground when you walk, especially in an area you have walked through dozens of times before and there was never any trip hazards?

[subzero]

If there was a 10 foot hole in the ground would we all still be defending Home Depot or would we expect Home Depot to do something about the 10 foot hole in the ground?

I'd expect people to not walk into a large hole.


What if it was a 3 year old kid?

Survival of the fittest + parental failure. Is it the kid's fault? No. Should the owner of the property be liable for human stupidity and/or failure? Negative.



Well yeah, if my mom had been running around outside in the snow I would expect Home Depot wouldn't have even humored her with a 3000 dollar settlement.


In today's litigious society, they most likely would have.


But if it were a black hole, it would be harder to see.

Dude, we have a black president. I thought we were over this racism stuff?


So even if the school had ran an extension cord along the area where they know kids run and play and your kid tripped over the cord you still wouldn't find the school at fault?

C'mon, man! If anyone ever expects that they can just blindly walk around and not worry about running into anything, tripping, falling, etc, it's on them when they bust their ass because they can't be bothered to watch where they're going. Accidents happen, especially with kids, but you can't blame everything on other people. Certainly not things that involve walking or running. There's only one person that can do that for you and you're responsible for keeping yourself upright. I almost can't believe I need to type this.


I guess we can save ourselves some back and forth here; would you ever find the school at fault for your kid tripping and falling?
:(

Maybe if they drug him or a staff member intentionally does something to wreck the kid.


Sure it has!

"A passenger carrying a package, while hurrying to catch and board a moving LIRR train, appeared to two of the railroad's (Defendant's) employees to be falling. The employees were guards, one of whom was located on the car, the other of whom was located on the platform. The guard on the car attempted to pull the passenger into the car and the guard on the platform attempted to push him into the car from behind.

The guards' efforts to aid the passenger caused the passenger to drop the package he was holding onto the rails. Unbeknownst to the guards, the package, which was approximately 15 inches long and wrapped in newspaper, contained fireworks, and the package exploded when it hit the rails. The shock reportedly knocked down scales at the other end of the platform (although later accounts suggest that a panicking bystander may have upset the scale), which injured Mrs. Helen Palsgraf (Plaintiff).

Palsgraf sued the railroad, claiming her injury resulted from negligent acts of the employee."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palsgraf_v._Long_Island_Railroad_Co.

Although ultimately it was determined that the Railroad was not at fault because the harm done was not reasonably foreseeable. It's pretty clear that harm coming from laying out an extension cord in a room where children are running, or failing to clear the ice from a well-trod area after you've been put on notice, is reasonably foreseeable.

Everything in life should come with disclaimers so that we're covered! Cords littering the ground? Put a sign up telling people to watch where the fuck they're going; problem solved! Worried about slip and falls in your store? Put a sign out front telling people they enter at their own risk; hazards may include, but are not limited to, water/ice on floor, falling objects, polar bears, live electrical wiring, and Killer Clowns from Outer Space.


Meter reader stepped in a soft spot in my yard and fractured his ankle.

He sued and my insurance paid.

No different here.

He should be removed from the gene pool.



ONE hot coffee lawsuit went through, the first one. Woman got some good money. Later ones failed. Someone tried the same thing in the UK, it also failed. The coffee lawsuit actually is considered "the poster child of excessive lawsuits". That shit will never work again, and it hasn't since. Hell, McDonalds still serves coffee at the EXACT SAME temperature that they did before and during the lawsuit.

Yeah, but now those cups have warning labels on them telling people the contents are HOT.


Welcome to a week ago?

Hey man, I can't help this site has been down! Nor is it my fault it showed up as having new posts when I clicked the button, so fuckin sue someone else, ok? Not my fault, bro!


I don't think people should be able to blindly walk around and not expect to fall or run into anything and blame someone else but now that you mention blind...should home depot not keep their store safe for the literally blind people?

Hah. Blind people don't have this problem because they pay attention to where they walk! They may not be able to see, but they sure as hell use those sticks to feel around and determine if they can or should walk where they're heading.



Also I believe businesses should make their property as safe as possible, even if people should be moving about as carefully as possible.

They should, but there comes a point where you have to be responsible for your own safety regardless of where you are or what you're doing.


Whenever I have an extension cord running along the floor of my house for any reason I cover it with a rug or towel until I remove the extension cord, just to make sure no on trips over it.

I'm sure some lawyer could argue that you've obstructed view of the cord and the resulting hump in the rug or whatever you covered it with unexpectedly caused someone to fall and get hurt.


Let's face it, how often are you constantly staring at the ground when you walk, especially in an area you have walked through dozens of times before and there was never any trip hazards?

I watch where I go. I don't want to deal with things such as breaking my ankle or running into a grumpy snake. Maybe part of it is from living in and being outside in Florida where it's a good idea to pay attention to wildlife and working around dangerous equipment, but I pay attention to what I'm doing, where I put my feet, etc.

[Warriorbird]

Welcome to a week ago?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJwKKKd2ZYE

[Latrinsorm]

I'd say it's more negligent to walk on a big patch of ice, but hey, I sorta like self-accountability rather than looking for someone to sue any time something happens to you.If you like accountability so much, why don't you want Home Depot held accountable?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

And when they neglect to do so, and someone gets hurt, that's... Negligence. That's how our legal system is set up. You can talk about personal responsibility till you're blue in the face, but why shouldn't the store face the same criticism? Hell, someone even called Tgo's mom a bitch. Wtf?

That's why our legal system sucks ass. If some store is all busted up, don't shop there.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Even if I were driving as carefully as I could be yet I still ended up sliding into 5 cars why should those people's insurance company pay for something that is obviously my fault?

Because that's what insurance is for?

[Tgo01]

Because that's what insurance is for?

Exactly, my insurance should cover it.

[JackWhisper]

Fact: TGO's mom slipped on the ice while on Home Depot property.
Fact: Home Depot, in their legal responsibilities *which is defined specifically in http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/personal-injury/stores-liability-slip-fall-accidents.html* is required to assure the safe conduct of their customers.
Fact: TGO's mom spoke with a store representative who not only KNEW about the ice, but was told about it a long time prior, had the authority to have it handled, and ignored said responsibility to allocate an employee to handle it, and did not personally handle it, which most people would assume they'd do instead of wasting time delegating it, to prevent such an issue.
Fact: If you ignore any of the above facts, you're a fucking MORON.
Fact: TGO's mom is not a bitch. She makes badass cupcakes. Suck it.

[Gelston]

Fact: TGO's mom slipped on the ice while on Home Depot property.
Fact: Home Depot, in their legal responsibilities *which is defined specifically in http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/personal-injury/stores-liability-slip-fall-accidents.html* is required to assure the safe conduct of their customers.
Fact: TGO's mom spoke with a store representative who not only KNEW about the ice, but was told about it a long time prior, had the authority to have it handled, and ignored said responsibility to allocate an employee to handle it, and did not personally handle it, which most people would assume they'd do instead of wasting time delegating it, to prevent such an issue.
Fact: If you ignore any of the above facts, you're a fucking MORON.
Fact: TGO's mom is not a bitch. She makes badass cupcakes. Suck it.

No one is ignoring any of the facts of where she was when she slipped. This has been stated to you multiple times.

[Tgo01]

Fact: TGO's mom slipped on the ice while on Home Depot property.
Fact: Home Depot, in their legal responsibilities *which is defined specifically in http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/personal-injury/stores-liability-slip-fall-accidents.html* is required to assure the safe conduct of their customers.
Fact: TGO's mom spoke with a store representative who not only KNEW about the ice, but was told about it a long time prior, had the authority to have it handled, and ignored said responsibility to allocate an employee to handle it, and did not personally handle it, which most people would assume they'd do instead of wasting time delegating it, to prevent such an issue.
Fact: If you ignore any of the above facts, you're a fucking MORON.
Fact: TGO's mom is not a bitch. She makes badass cupcakes. Suck it.

The best cupcakes this side of town!

The employee flat out admitting she knew about the ice hours prior was really the sticking point for me. And it's exactly like Jack says here, why didn't she take care of it herself? She managed to lock the garden doors all by herself AFTER my mom fell, why didn't she did that before my mom fell? She couldn't sprinkle salt out there? She couldn't put up a sign?

But no, she told someone else about it who apparently was supposed to tell someone else to take care of it. FAILURES!

I should be running this Home Depot.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

By Your logic tho, a store wouldn't have to shovel or put salt down on their parking lot at all during the winter. I mean, fuck it. It's winter, winter has ice, it's not THEIR Fault it's winter.

I think you fail to realize that common sense wise.. people don't go to a store and expect to have to navigate a mine field. Also.. if common sense would tell us anything... that old lady wouldn't have won a lawsuit over HOT coffee.

Stores don't shovel/clear their parking lot because they give a shit about you. They do it because they want your money, and doing so facilitates getting it. It is retarded to sue a store for having ice outside of their store in the winter. Or should we redefine the word accident?

[Tgo01]

Or should we redefine the word accident?

I'm almost positive my nearly 70 year old mother didn't purposefully risk breaking her hip.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

If you like accountability so much, why don't you want Home Depot held accountable?

We should make it so difficult for a store to cover every possible accident that they just close their doors forever!

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'm almost positive my nearly 70 year old mother didn't purposefully risk breaking her hip.

No? She went outside in the very unsafe cold, freezing, weather to go to a home improvement store? Sounds like she willfully walked outside the safe confines of her place of residence to me.

[Tgo01]

No? She went outside in the very unsafe cold, freezing, weather to go to a home improvement store? Sounds like she willfully walked outside the safe confines of her place of residence to me.

Okay. So she purposefully risked breaking her hip for ~$1,000. That crafty ol' gal.

[Warriorbird]

Okay. So she purposefully risked breaking her hip for ~$1,000. That crafty ol' gal.

It's your mother we're talking about here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxZbJXnhuw0

[subzero]

If you like accountability so much, why don't you want Home Depot held accountable?

Because Home Depot wasn't walking around the store falling on ice.

[Latrinsorm]

Stores don't shovel/clear their parking lot because they give a shit about you. They do it because they want your money, and doing so facilitates getting it. It is not retarded to sue a store for having ice inside of their store in the winter. Or should we redefine the word accident?ftfy
We should make it so difficult for a store to cover every possible accident that they just close their doors forever!Accountability isn't easy. That's why it's so important.
Because Home Depot wasn't walking around the store falling on ice.Home Depot knew the risks when they let people in their store. They should be held accountable for what happened as a direct result.

[subzero]

Home Depot knew the risks when they let people in their store. They should be held accountable for what happened as a direct result.

I'll agree with that when Home Depot can hack into your brain/CNS and do the walking for you. Businesses, hell, people in general, shouldn't have to fear being sued because someone stepped in a 'soft spot' on the ground and hurt their ankle, tripped on a tree root, etc. Shit happens. Own it.

[Latrinsorm]

People shouldn't have to fear walking on unreasonably unsafe surfaces either. Shit happens, Home Depot. Own it.

[subzero]

People shouldn't have to fear walking on unreasonably unsafe surfaces either. Shit happens, Home Depot. Own it.

The world is a wild and dangerous place, bubble-boy! Don't venture outside if you can't handle the risks.

[Latrinsorm]

Don't open a business if you can't handle the risks.

[Tisket]

People shouldn't have to fear walking on unreasonably unsafe surfaces either.

Insurance companies have made billions by encouraging this mind set.

[Parkbandit]

Insurance companies have made billions by encouraging this mind set.

The lawyers are the ones making a killing at this stupidity.

[Tisket]

The lawyers are the ones making a killing at this stupidity.

I think the insurance companies outstrip the legal profession by far.

[Gelston]

I think the insurance companies outstrip the legal profession by far.

Lawyers probably make up a sizable portion of the insurance industry.

[Tisket]

They are hired by all insurance companies, if that's what you meant.

[Gelston]

They are hired by all insurance companies, if that's what you meant.

Well yes, of course they are. And I am saying they likely make up a sizable portion of the insurance industry. I imagine lawyers are probably one of the most important professions in it. That and accounting.

[Tisket]

Well yes, of course they are. And I am saying they likely make up a sizable portion of the insurance industry. I imagine lawyers are probably one of the most important professions in it. That and accounting.

That's rather like saying the sun is hot.

[Gelston]

That's rather like saying the sun is hot.

I find it rather mild.

[waywardgs]

We should make it so difficult for a store to cover every possible accident that they just close their doors forever!

I think Home Depot will survive the hit.

[Parkbandit]

I think the insurance companies outstrip the legal profession by far.

But the insurance companies are the ones that have to pay off all the claims.. while the lawyers keep raking it all in.

[Taernath]

But the insurance companies are the ones that have to pay off all the claims.. while the lawyers keep raking it all in.

Insurance companies play the percentages. Millions of customers, and if you ever become unprofitable, they raise your rates or drop your coverage.

[waywardgs]

A Lowe’s customer got a nasty surprise while he was shopping for cupboards in a Corinth, Mississippi store. A four-foot long, python-like snake lunged out of the cupboard, biting him “right between the eyes.” The non-poisonous snake latched onto the man’s head and refused to let go. Paramedics who arrived at the scene were forced to cut the snake in half before finally prying its jaws loose from the man’s head.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/01/23/lowes-shopper-bitten-in-the-head-by-python-like-snake-video/

Stupid assholes should know to expect attacks from wild animals while shopping at home improvement stores!

(I actually think there is less negligence on the part of the store here than knowing about a dangerous patch of ice and being too lazy to deal with it like in Tgo's mom's case. But still... Jesus. Haha.)

[Gnome Rage]

Semi-off topic...

how liable is a homeowner if the mailman were to slip delivering mail...

[Gelston]

Semi-off topic...

how liable is a homeowner if the mailman were to slip delivering mail...

Not at all, that area is considered city property.

[Ker_Thwap]

Not at all, that area is considered city property.

She lives in Stars Hollow, they probably head up the walkway and put it through the door slot.

I'd worry less about liability and more about not wanting the poor mail guy to get hurt.

[Gelston]

She lives in Stars Hollow, they probably head up the walkway and put it through the door slot.

I'd worry less about liability and more about not wanting the poor mail guy to get hurt.

I was thinking about real mail boxes, I admit. The ones on the side of the road. However, mailmen are technically Government employees. I'm not sure if they can sue homeowners. Generally, if it is hazardous to get to a box, they just skip it.

[Parkbandit]

Semi-off topic...

how liable is a homeowner if the mailman were to slip delivering mail...

Depends on how good your lawyer is.

[Parkbandit]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/01/23/lowes-shopper-bitten-in-the-head-by-python-like-snake-video/

Stupid assholes should know to expect attacks from wild animals while shopping at home improvement stores!


Stupid Lowes should know to expect 4' snakes hiding in every small crevice in the building and should have an entire store inspection scheduled every hour.

[waywardgs]

Stupid Lowes should know to expect 4' snakes hiding in every small crevice in the building and should have an entire store inspection scheduled every hour.




(I actually think there is less negligence on the part of the store here than knowing about a dangerous patch of ice and being too lazy to deal with it like in Tgo's mom's case. But still... Jesus. Haha.)

You know, it's ok to chuckle at a humorous story. You might live longer. I worry about your blood pressure, being in a constant state of rage like you are.

[Tisket]

But the insurance companies are the ones that have to pay off all the claims.. while the lawyers keep raking it all in.

I guess it doesn't really matter... hate them both with the same passion.

[Tgo01]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/01/23/lowes-shopper-bitten-in-the-head-by-python-like-snake-video/

Stupid assholes should know to expect attacks from wild animals while shopping at home improvement stores!

(I actually think there is less negligence on the part of the store here than knowing about a dangerous patch of ice and being too lazy to deal with it like in Tgo's mom's case. But still... Jesus. Haha.)

People should be professional snake wranglers if they want to shop at Lowe's.


Semi-off topic...

how liable is a homeowner if the mailman were to slip delivering mail...

I would imagine very liable. A homeowner knows the mail carrier is going to come to their house 6 times a week and they know the path the mail carrier is going to take as well. I suppose it also depends on the situation. If the ground was fine and clear the day before but it froze over at like 5AM then the mail carrier slipped at 7AM while the home owner was still sleeping/at work/what have you then I suppose one could argue the home owner didn't have a chance to make the conditions safe.

If on the other hand the ground froze a week before hand and the home owner didn't do anything about it then I would say very liable.

It was probably the argument that Buckwheet's meter read used. I doubt Buckwheet knew about the soft spot in his yard and ignored it but the meter reader probably argued that he should have known about it and fixed it or put up a warning of some sort, using the argument that he knows the meter reader comes by his house once a month.

Now if it's someone that has no permission to be on your property and thus weren't expecting them to be in a place where they could get injured then your liability would probably be a lot less.

I was digging a hole in my yard once for a project that I wasn't going to finish the same day so when I was all done for the day I put up a bunch of those brightly colored snow markers you use to mark off your driveway and yard for the snow plows. Even though it was a hole in the ground and people should have been able to see it and walk around it I figured I would alert people just in case. But it's beginning to look more and more like I'm the odd one for looking out for other people's safety for a hazard I create :/

[Jeril]

But it's beginning to look more and more like I'm the odd one for looking out for other people's safety for a hazard I create :/

Does this mean you go around wearing brightly colored warning signs?

[Tgo01]

Does this mean you go around wearing brightly colored warning signs?

Always!

[Jeril]

Always!

Youtube or it never happened.

[JackWhisper]

My family's place has a giant fence around it. My father built it because he owns a few dogs, one being a 125+lb bulldog. Needless to say, he is garrulous and jovial. But he looks like he'll eat your face. Think Hooch, except way cleaner, and brindle coloring. He doesn't bite people or anything like that, he just gets excited and wants to snorfle people hardcore when he meets them. So the fence was erected.

And BEWARE OF DOG signs were put up.

Like five of them.

And there was *STILL* a UPS guy who came in, ignoring everything. I saw him come in, told him to get out because we had dogs and they are excitable, but friendly. He shrugged it off and said he had a delivery to do. Got knocked over and sniffed by the dog, threatened to sue. As I was at my dad's place, I took the van and told him he was an idiot for coming into a potentially hazardous location where warning signs had been posted in blatant plain sight. *A very large BEWARE OF DOG placard complete WITH a giant dog picture was drilled INTO the door to get past the fence*

So he went back to his job, filed a whatever with UPS, and I get a call from a representative. Told em the situation.

Needless to say, I wasn't happy. After all that, it is *STILL* the homeowner's fault if the moron UPS guy hurts himself.

The lawsuit was dropped because I had prior interaction with the guy and told him to leave the premises to avoid injury. He had dismissed me, and that was why he couldn't sue us.

Total horseshit, but that's how much homeowners *DON'T* have rights when idiots walk on their property.

[waywardgs]

My family's place has a giant fence around it. My father built it because he owns a few dogs, one being a 125+lb bulldog. Needless to say, he is garrulous and jovial. But he looks like he'll eat your face. Think Hooch, except way cleaner, and brindle coloring. He doesn't bite people or anything like that, he just gets excited and wants to snorfle people hardcore when he meets them. So the fence was erected.

And BEWARE OF DOG signs were put up.

Like five of them.

And there was *STILL* a UPS guy who came in, ignoring everything. I saw him come in, told him to get out because we had dogs and they are excitable, but friendly. He shrugged it off and said he had a delivery to do. Got knocked over and sniffed by the dog, threatened to sue. As I was at my dad's place, I took the van and told him he was an idiot for coming into a potentially hazardous location where warning signs had been posted in blatant plain sight. *A very large BEWARE OF DOG placard complete WITH a giant dog picture was drilled INTO the door to get past the fence*

So he went back to his job, filed a whatever with UPS, and I get a call from a representative. Told em the situation.

Needless to say, I wasn't happy. After all that, it is *STILL* the homeowner's fault if the moron UPS guy hurts himself.

The lawsuit was dropped because I had prior interaction with the guy and told him to leave the premises to avoid injury. He had dismissed me, and that was why he couldn't sue us.

Total horseshit, but that's how much homeowners *DON'T* have rights when idiots walk on their property.

But... But it was dropped. Sounds like everything worked out appropriately. Where is the failure here?

[Taernath]

MAfter all that, it is *STILL* the homeowner's fault if the moron UPS guy hurts himself.


It varies by state.

[waywardgs]

Lawsuits are here so we don't have to shoot or stab each other to settle disagreements anymore. I guess people would rather resolve matters the old fashioned way, because the occasional frivolous lawsuit is so abhorrent they'd rather disband the whole damn system. Seems a little silly, but whatever. Viva la Stone Age, or something.

[JackWhisper]

But... But it was dropped. Sounds like everything worked out appropriately. Where is the failure here?

It wasn't dropped because of any of the preventative measures that were erected to prevent the dogs from sniffing someone. The only reason it was dropped is because the UPS employee was verbally told, by me, to leave the premises, BEFORE the dogs got to him. He was warned.

Had I not done so, and the dogs got to him, he could have sued. Or so we were told.

[Gnome Rage]

She lives in Stars Hollow, they probably head up the walkway and put it through the door slot.

I'd worry less about liability and more about not wanting the poor mail guy to get hurt.

Well, obviously we don't want our mail guy to slip, but when we were on vacation it snowed a lot and then froze over and we can't really get through the ice. We can't salt it because of our driveway. We tried beet juice today, kinda worked I guess but we didn't have nearly enough. I even tried desperately to use hot water to melt some of it off and kinda scrape it down but eh. Not really effective.

[Candor]

Well, obviously we don't want our mail guy to slip, but when we were on vacation it snowed a lot and then froze over and we can't really get through the ice. We can't salt it because of our driveway. We tried beet juice today, kinda worked I guess but we didn't have nearly enough. I even tried desperately to use hot water to melt some of it off and kinda scrape it down but eh. Not really effective.

If you live in an area that gets snow and ice, don't have a house on a corner with a sidewalk. The local laws in my area state that you have 48 hours after a snowfall to get the snow and ice off the sidewalks which border your house. I have 3-4 times more area to clear than most of my neighbors. I have learned to really hate snow.

[waywardgs]

Well, obviously we don't want our mail guy to slip, but when we were on vacation it snowed a lot and then froze over and we can't really get through the ice. We can't salt it because of our driveway. We tried beet juice today, kinda worked I guess but we didn't have nearly enough. I even tried desperately to use hot water to melt some of it off and kinda scrape it down but eh. Not really effective.
You poured hot water on your sidewalk in freezing temps and you DONT'T want your mailman to slip?

[JackWhisper]

You poured hot water on your sidewalk in freezing temps and you DONT'T want your mailman to slip?

They see her trollin'.... they hatin'....

[waywardgs]

They see her trollin'.... they hatin'....

I'm laughing at the whole scene... A sidewalk, covered in blood red beet juice, with an unconscious mailman laying in the middle, having slipped on her hot water ice patch booby trap. Murder scene. Lol.

[Tgo01]

Use the salt, woman! :p

If this is a brand new sidewalk, like 2 years old or newer, then yes avoid salt at all costs.

Just the act of pouring salt on your cement driveway doesn't hurt it. What causes problems with cement is when water seeps into the pours of cement and then freezes, this can cause damage, especially if the water thaws then freezes again, and again and again and again. Most of the time this is unavoidable, you can't control mother nature actively trying to destroy your cement driveway.

The problem with using salt is when the ice melts and starts to seep into the pours of the cement it takes the salt with it so it can keep the water thawing and refreezing again.

First of all you can look for salt that should be safer for driveways. Secondly you should use salt sparingly; don't coat the entire driveway "just in case", just use salt where you see ice and even then don't dump 2 inches of salt on the ice.

Most important thing to do is to sweep the slush and water off of your driveway when the ice starts to melt, this would sweep most of the salt away and there will be less water to seep into the driveway.

But if you're really that worried about ruining your driveway then use sand or sawdust to provide some traction on the ice.

Of course you could keep trying to kill your mail carrier if that is your ultimate goal ;)

[Androidpk]

Just use kosher salt.

[subzero]

Most of the time this is unavoidable, you can't control mother nature actively trying to destroy your cement driveway.


Or from breaking your ankles, swallowing you whole, giving you some necrotic bacteria, lighting your ass up with lightning, trying to kill you with the venom of some critter, etc. Just don't let any of that happen on your property or you're hosed! Unless, of course, you're Home Depot cause they can afford it.

[Tgo01]

Unless, of course, you're Home Depot cause they can afford it.

That's what I'm talking about.

[Parkbandit]

You know, it's ok to chuckle at a humorous story. You might live longer. I worry about your blood pressure, being in a constant state of rage like you are.

If you believe I'm in a state of rage, you're obviously projecting. Unlike you, I have nothing to be angry about.

Also, I don't worry about your health. You'll die early, complaining to the end how it's not fair... and the world will be far better off.

[JackWhisper]

But... if he passes on... who will you have left to bitch about?!

[waywardgs]

If you believe I'm in a state of rage, you're obviously projecting. Unlike you, I have nothing to be angry about.

Also, I don't worry about your health. You'll die early, complaining to the end how it's not fair... and the world will be far better off.


http://youtu.be/Q5dU6serXkg
Worried about ya, bud. That ol ticker can't be doin too good. Relaaaaax!

[JackWhisper]

I like how it goes BONG.

[Warriorbird]

Worried about ya, bud. That ol ticker can't be doin too good. Relaaaaax!

http://gizmodo.com/the-best-predictor-of-heart-disease-is-twitter-1681545026

I imagine this applies to the PC too.

I hope he gets the help he needs.

[Ker_Thwap]

Well, obviously we don't want our mail guy to slip, but when we were on vacation it snowed a lot and then froze over and we can't really get through the ice. We can't salt it because of our driveway. We tried beet juice today, kinda worked I guess but we didn't have nearly enough. I even tried desperately to use hot water to melt some of it off and kinda scrape it down but eh. Not really effective.

Dark colored sand/dirt on top of the ice. Provides grip initially. Catches a bit of sunlight and heats up, melting or at least pitting the ice. You'll still need to get out there every day and chip away at it until it's back under control. No liquids, unless you can get some of that jet de-icer.

My driveway and walk are a giant mess as well because I was away for the week. I put down some salt, just because I had it around, it's a short term solution. I guess my project for the day is to go buy some sand.

[Latrinsorm]

Lawsuits are here so we don't have to shoot or stab each other to settle disagreements anymore. I guess people would rather resolve matters the old fashioned way, because the occasional frivolous lawsuit is so abhorrent they'd rather disband the whole damn system. Seems a little silly, but whatever. Viva la Stone Age, or something.Trial by ordeal gets such a bad rap, but in one of those Scandinavian countries the ordeal was "who can hold up weights in each hand longer". See? Totally reasonable standard of proof, and no icky stuff.
It wasn't dropped because of any of the preventative measures that were erected to prevent the dogs from sniffing someone. The only reason it was dropped is because the UPS employee was verbally told, by me, to leave the premises, BEFORE the dogs got to him. He was warned.

Had I not done so, and the dogs got to him, he could have sued. Or so we were told.You were told that by the UPS person, though. Did you ever consult a lawyer of your own?
But... if he passes on... who will you have left to bitch about?!Um... hello...

[Parkbandit]

Worried about ya, bud. That ol ticker can't be doin too good. Relaaaaax!

And I honestly couldn't care less about you or your health. I also don't think this video, explaining what one of your many issues are, is dumbed down enough for you to understand.. but others will certainly get a laugh at your expense.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmnAX1j0P_k

[subzero]

Dark colored sand/dirt on top of the ice. Provides grip initially. Catches a bit of sunlight and heats up, melting or at least pitting the ice. You'll still need to get out there every day and chip away at it until it's back under control. No liquids, unless you can get some of that jet de-icer.

My driveway and walk are a giant mess as well because I was away for the week. I put down some salt, just because I had it around, it's a short term solution. I guess my project for the day is to go buy some sand.

Flamethrower. That's what suckas living in winter wonderlands need to have on hand.

[waywardgs]

And I honestly couldn't care less about you or your health. I also don't think this video, explaining what one of your many issues are, is dumbed down enough for you to understand.. but others will certainly get a laugh at your expense.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmnAX1j0P_k

Haha. You know, for a grown man, you are delightfully easy to manipulate!

[Parkbandit]

Haha. You know, for a grown man, you are delightfully easy to manipulate!

You know, for a retarded little boy, I feel nothing for you. Well, maybe pity.

... no, not even pity.

And I would never use "delightfully" when describing another man.

[waywardgs]

You know, for a retarded little boy, I feel nothing for you. Well, maybe pity.

... no, not even pity.

And I would never use "delightfully" when describing another man.

Lol! Talk more about how insecure you are in your sexuality by calling everyone gay again. Hysterical.


Classic PB!

[Androidpk]

Lol! Talk more about how insecure you are in your sexuality by calling everyone gay again. Hysterical.


Classic PB!

Ditto. The 20th century called and it wants its insult back.

[waywardgs]

Ditto. The 20th century called and it wants its insult back.

I like the bit about how his life is awesome and he's just here for pure entertainment and I mean nothing to him.

C'mon, PB, let's here some more!!

[Parkbandit]

I like the bit about how his life is awesome and he's just here for pure entertainment and I mean nothing to him.

100% accurate.


C'mon, PB, let's here some more!!

Which part of that do you need me to dumb down for you, kid?

[Parkbandit]

Lol! Talk more about how insecure you are in your sexuality by calling everyone gay again. Hysterical.

Classic PB!

It's almost as funny as you getting butt sore and calling me old.

But hey... that's new and fresh! I mean, who has ever used that before?

And just to correct the record: I don't call "everyone gay"... just the most effeminate ones.

[Gnome Rage]

You poured hot water on your sidewalk in freezing temps and you DONT'T want your mailman to slip?

It wasn't the sidewalk! It was a test patch...

[waywardgs]

100% accurate.



Which part of that do you need me to dumb down for you, kid?

100% predictable.